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Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:17 PM

Tommy Douglas intelligence dossier battle goes to Supreme Court

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1299766--tommy-douglas-intelligence-dossier-battle-goes-to-supreme-court

Is this the face of Canadian democracy? If this rulings goes against access for the public it could mean the hiding of state secrets from the public indefinitely. Only a narrow number of undemocratic nations fall under such draconian levels of secrecy.

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Reply Tommy Douglas intelligence dossier battle goes to Supreme Court (Original post)
shockedcanadian Dec 2012 OP
Joe Shlabotnik Dec 2012 #1
shockedcanadian Dec 2012 #2
Joe Shlabotnik Dec 2012 #3
CanSocDem Dec 2012 #4
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #5
shockedcanadian Dec 2012 #6
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #7

Response to shockedcanadian (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:57 PM

1. Guaranteed that this has Zero to do with security.

And everything about successive paranoid governments.

Perhaps now there is also an element of tamping down public sympathy towards any socialist leaning ideology in an era of austerity, secrecy and Harper's megalomaniacal fantasies.

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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:22 PM

2. This has to do with secrecy and protecting CSIS methods...

I am certainly far from a socialist, I may not have even liked many of Tommy's ideas, but I am a full supporter of accountability, disclosure and integrity of the security apparatus. These agencies sell our sovereignty, manufacture and misrepresent their citizens while helping to bankrupt the system. As Simon Noel has said on many occasions, this is about the RCMP and CSIS attempting to avoid embarrassment, if the media posted his dossier without redaction many more citizens would understand just to what extent the apparatus infiltrates and targets individuals. The line between the activities of say the Stasi and CSIS would be quite thin. No hyperbole intended nor apparent; the spooks may not imprison and physically torture their targets, but they certainly know what methods to employ to persecute and destroy one's life.

If there is no justice and acceptable disclosure for such a public figure, what hope does the regular citizen in this country have in obtaining the same? I can tell you from personal experience, slim to none.

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Response to shockedcanadian (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:42 PM

3. All good points.

Shedding some sunlight on 40 or 60 year old techniques and extremes of surveillance would certainly raise valid questions of what they are capable of, or are doing now.

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Response to shockedcanadian (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 04:16 PM

4. The enemies of social democracy are many...



...and Douglas's appearance on the political scene brought them all out. And now, after years of failed anti-democratic corporatism, when the public consciousness has had enough, the ruling class is using all its' power to ensure that the elegant efficiency of social democracy, remains a secret.

.

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Response to shockedcanadian (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 07:46 PM

5. tommy douglas was voted the most loved Canadian by Canadians for getting us Universal health care.

No wonder the government wants to suppress what CSIS put in his files. They acted like the American 50s McCarthy era. I want to know what they wrote in these files .

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 05:15 PM

6. Just an important correction...

It wasn't what CSIS put into their files but the former Intelligence arm of the RCMP (which is now CSIS). For all intents and purposes one and the same I suppose.

The issue is not about what he did, what his opinions were etc. This is absolutely about protecting the methods that the both the RCMP and now CSIS utilize, in particular the depth of such targeting. I could name a few that might surprise many. All are considered fair game by those who do not like democracy, and Canada enjoys some of the most draconian secrecy laws in the West, one could expect to find out alot more about what the state has on them in England, Germany, France or the United States...

The RCMP admired the Stasi and their methods, many in the intelligence community believe they were far and away the best intelligence agency, even more effective then more well known agencies such as the KGB, Mossad and CIA. What the RCMP did not care about and still don't, is the fact that the activities that the Stasi engaged in were done under a Communist system; in a near Totalitarian environment, the system we were supposed to despise and hate. Here were are in 2012, Communism is apparently dead, yet, we cannot open the books to files which are 80 years old in some case due to fears their intelligence tactics will be revealed? Now that is some scary stuff. Can you imagine having a social society with the clock turned back 50-75 years? The intelligence community hasn't change one iota and it is high time Canadians decide if the personal costs are worth the excessive destruction of Canadian lives and families.

By the way, I speak somewhat from personal experience, but the truth is we are far behind other Western nations in regards to personal freedoms liberties and access to justice. So the question truly is, what is it precisely that CSIS and the RCMP are protecting us from? There is little to defend.

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Response to shockedcanadian (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:46 PM

7. thank you

For this information. It seems the Canadian government has a very dark side. I hope the SC will decide to let these documents be public.

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