HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Places » International » Australia (Group) » How Long Can Labor Surviv...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed May 9, 2012, 01:27 AM

How Long Can Labor Survive?

Watching Christopher Pyne in full flight in QT today, it's hard not to wonder just how long Labor can hang on. Crocodile tears from the Libs for the hard-working HSU members, but Craig Thomson is a total sleazebag. Labor needs his vote, but as long as he's still in parliament, he's a millstone around the government's neck. It's a no-win situation for them.

And a good budget is being sidelined while Thomson's alleged credit card abuses are catalogued over and over. The Murdoch hacks will be salivating.

The sooner preselection reforms are brought in, the better. We definitely need to demand higher standards from our MPs.

17 replies, 2338 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 17 replies Author Time Post
Reply How Long Can Labor Survive? (Original post)
Matilda May 2012 OP
Tanelorn May 2012 #1
Matilda May 2012 #2
peakhillfm May 2012 #3
Matilda May 2012 #4
pink May 2012 #5
Matilda May 2012 #6
pink May 2012 #7
Matilda May 2012 #8
Matilda May 2012 #9
pink May 2012 #11
peakhillfm May 2012 #13
Matilda May 2012 #10
pink May 2012 #12
peakhillfm May 2012 #14
Matilda May 2012 #15
peakhillfm May 2012 #16
Matilda May 2012 #17

Response to Matilda (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 06:45 AM

1. Good ole Peter Costello has come to the rescue though.

Apparently he was trying to sideline Kelly O'Dwer and gain preselection for Higgins again. Its a distraction the mad monk didn't need. But who does.
The cracks in the loyal opposition will eventually emerge.

You're right though when the opposition is bleating about the HSU as if they actually cared. As if...

The union slogan in recent years has been to 'Hit one, hit all'. may come to backfire. 'Tarnish one tarnish all.'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tanelorn (Reply #1)

Wed May 9, 2012, 08:48 PM

2. The thought of Hockey being Treasurer is probably driving him nuts.

I imagine it must worry a lot of Libs ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Original post)

Thu May 10, 2012, 09:27 PM

3. Libs are a no brainer

I watched Mr.Pyne on Sky News on Wednesday after the budget had been brought down,and talk about a sarcastic,pitiful bugger who had left his bat and ball behind and taken of in a huff,I was absolutely disgusted to see his performance,.
He should grow up,shut up and act like a parliamentarian instead of a spoilt brat..
Craig Thomson is in the hands of NSW State and NOT the Commonwealth government,BUT it seems to me that the Libs have a very short memory.
I do believe that one of their 'sitting' members was found guilty of 'stealing' and was fined,BUT the Libs forget that.I also remember Mr.Howard categorically stating in 1999 that there would NEVER BE a GST under his watch,and well we all know what happened there.
It appears to me that the Libs have a VERY short memory span and that most of them don't remember what happened last year.
Joe Hockey is the same,BUT hey the majority of Australian want the Libs to run/stuff up the country again,and I am sorry BUT with the memory span that Tony Abbott,along with Christopher Pine,Joe Hockey and that other fellow who is the Shadow treasurer have got,pity help Australia.
I can tell you something of interest.You try putting a post on the DT (Daily Telegraph) or the Herald Sun and you have a go at the Libs and believe you me your post WONT be posted,so so much for UN BIAS reporting........
Anyway the Libs will just have to wait til the next election,and I reckon that Tony Abbott wont be at the helm,not with the rumblings of Peter Costello wanting to re emerge back into Federal Politics.......
I just with that the Libs would realize that they are in Opposition and not the Government of the day screwing us again.
By the way I wonder how many of the Parliamentarian folks will send back their education bonus or their clean air supplement when it gets into their bank account?????food for thought!!!!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to peakhillfm (Reply #3)

Thu May 10, 2012, 10:25 PM

4. I have a confession to make:

I think Christopher Pyne is a good parliamentary performer. No, I don't like his politics, but it's interesting that not once this week did we see Abbott calling for the usual suspension of standing orders - it was Pyne every time. Makes you wonder why they're trying to hide Abbott. Pyne is on the ball and can think on his feet, which neither Abbott, Hockey, Bishop or Robb can do. The only other Lib to equal his ability is Malcolm Turnbull, and Abbott is careful not to give him much to say – he'd like people to forget that Turnbull exists, because if Abbot is scared of anybody, it's Malcolm.

The Lib who was accused of stealing is Senator Mary Jo Fisher - she was acquitted of that charge, but found guilty of assaulting a security guy. She's still in the Senate and has voted on 95 bills. Yes, it's one rule for them and another for Labor. But Thomson is damaging Labor, not least because that's all the media is focussing on.

Peter Costello can't come back until the next election, so he couldn't lead the party unless he did a Campbell Newman, which is not going to happen. Finding a seat won't be easy - he always thought he was entitled to be handed the leadership, but now he's yesterday's man. Kelly O'Dwyer won't be stepping aside - can't stand the woman, but she's one of the Libs rising stars.

Labor's biggest handicap is, unfortunately, Julia Gillard. She's smart and a good debater, but she lacks warmth and the ability to communicate. And she just isn't trusted. Biggest mistake she made was knifing Rudd - if she'd waited, the leadership would have come to her at the right time. No matter how justified the caucus think they were, people like Rudd and they haven't forgiven Julia.
And she's backflipped on too many policy issues - in some she had no choice, but too often she sacrificed long-term promises for short-term gain. I truly don't know what Julia really believes in, because her words aren't backed up by actions.

They're stuck with her now, and the party will go down with her. Her ratings may go up between now and the election, but not enough to make a difference to the outcome. Australians will live to regret electing Abbott, and I think he'll be a one-term prime minister because he really lacks the intellectual ability and the strength to make good policy and make it work. But he will do a lot of damage before he's replaced, probably with Turnbull.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Reply #4)

Thu May 10, 2012, 11:44 PM

5. The "Head kicker" and his little "Pitbull"

How could you possibly suggest that Pyne is a good performer. He is a deceitful, lying, noodle-headed little turd. He is not forthcoming in what he actually knows about the Slipper/Ashby affair. How could he hang out with Ashby in the Speaker's office and not discuss what has turned out to be the biggest so-called scandal of the year. Paul Keating used to be accused of lowering the tone of the parliament but he absolutely pales in significance since Abbott the head kicker and Pyne the pitbull came along. I have been watching question time since the televising began many years ago. Never have I ever heard such language. That pair are not clever or witty, they are cruel, vicious and deceitful.

I agree that what Craig Thomson has been accused of is very serious, but do you honestly think that if the numbers were'nt as tight as they actually are, the opposition would be going on as relentlessly as they are. Even Bob Katter has refused to vote with the coalition in regards to Craig Thompson. He, like I, believe in innocence until proven guilty. Even Sophie Mirabella is entitled to the same standards even though her ex sugar-daddy's children may think otherwise.

I remember too well what happened with Nick Sherry when Peter Costello was unrelenting in his attack because of travelling allowances. The same thing could very well happen to Thomson. Then everyone will be wringing their hands saying things like "Gee maybe we might have gone a bit too far, we might have to change the standards of parliament". Thomson has a family, he has a new wife, he has children and he has lovely parents who happened to have once lived near me, but now have virtually gone into hiding. There have been many corporate CEO's who have dudded their share holders by taking golden handshakes and running up massive travelling expenses etc in the past. What Craig Thomson did was very similar. When it came to union funds helping to pay for his election campaign, if you remember back in 2007 "Your rights at work" was a major part of the campaign. There may be a blurring of the lines, but I would like to wait until I actually see the report before I pass judgement. I haven't even seen murderers pilloried as much as he has.

I have mostly agreed with your political assessments, but this time you're on your own. There are some coalition MP's that I actually like but I will never give any kudos to the likes of Pyne or Abbott. By the way. I think the reason Abbott isnt suspending standing orders is because he's trying unsuccessfully to shake off the negative image.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pink (Reply #5)

Fri May 11, 2012, 03:25 AM

6. The point I wanted to make about Pyne is that he's doing what he's supposed to do.

I don't "like" him as such, and he's not in the class of Albo, and certainly no Keating or Whitlam, but as a terrier, snapping at the heels of the government, he has a certain amount of success, albeit as an irritant. And I'd have little doubt that he's involved in the Slipper/Ashby case up to his little pink ears, as is Mal Brough. If ever there was a beat-up, that's it, but Slipper should have known the Libs would be out for blood, and made sure there was nothing for them to get on him.

For that matter, I think Abbott has been abusing the parliament with his frivolous SSOs, and his public performances are a circus. But aided by a compliant media, he's getting away with it, and he has to be given credit for that, however infuriating it might be. It could never work if there weren't so many stupid people out there, soaking up the bullshit like so many blotters. It's a very sad reflection on our society as a whole.

Of course the Thomson affair wouldn't rate high in normal times, but it's not normal times, and the right-wing media are making the most of it. In fact, even if he's guilty, it's not a criminal offence. He won't go to jail for it, but that has been overlooked in the flurry to get a story, whereas Mary Jo Fisher's assault case was a criminal case, however minor. I can't see how he can be censured unless he's charged and found guilty, but the problem is that the media won't let it go away, and there's nowhere to hide. It's a bad look for Labor, and it couldn't come at a worse time. There's also a question about the HSU accountants - were they asleep on the job? And aren't the books audited? Why wasn't this nipped in the bud at the first sign of any irregular payments? I think these are valid questions. If Thomson is guilty, it would seem that he was aided by sloppy work practices involving other people. It should never have got to the point it did.

I think the Thomson case does give rise to other issues - the need for a careful background check on all prospective candidates. Whether they're chosen by Sussex Street or by the rank and file, the powers-that-be have to make sure there's no dirt, anywhere. And anybody with political ambitions should learn to keep their noses clean from the time they first begin to think about public life - there's always somebody with a camera, a mobile phone, a telephoto lens, or a microphone, waiting to snap. They can't get away with anything these days, and they need to wake up to that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Reply #6)

Fri May 11, 2012, 08:33 PM

7. I obviously misunderstood your point

I am so absolutely frustrated and disgusted with the media at the moment. It seems that all ethics have been thrown out the window. Whatever happened to the days when good journalists would report on a budget and give a reasonable assessment? Whatever happened to the days when an opposition leader would give a budget reply speech and actually speak about the budget and give some clues as to what they would do better? Whatever happened to the days when an opposition would do its job by keeping the government of the day to account and not actually set out to destroy it along with all parliamentry traditions?

It is looking so much so that when the next election is called, not only will the coalition win the lower house, but have control of the senate as well.

Imagine Abbott (with his strong right wing religious beliefs) running the country.
Imagine Hockey and Robb undoing all good things Labor brought in
Imagine Truss and Joyce controlling anything
Imagine Sophie Mirabella just being there
Imagine Pyne and Bishop just being there. I remember when the gfc started, Julie Bishop was shadow treasurer, she said that we should wait and see what happens with it and then we should do something. She didnt even know what percentage interest rates were at then.

How could any other country believe it. We have 4.9% unemployment, 3.75% interest rates, AAA credit ratings with all international assessors including the imf. We have a health system that other countries would die for (probably wrong choice of words) and the best social security safety net in the world. And the government responsible for all of this will be trounced in a landslide. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pink (Reply #7)

Wed May 23, 2012, 02:50 AM

8. Abbott is sinking lower and lower.

His attacks in the parliament are about one thing - TAbbott becoming PM. No discussion about the budget, simply never-ending attacks on Craig Thomson. Admittedly, Thomson's explanation to the parliament on the HSU case had a lot of elements of a fairytale, but it's hard to escape the thought that the whole of the HSU at that time were a bunch of scumbags - I wouldn't give credence to Williamson or to Jackson either, not if they swore to something on a stack of bibles. And Thomson's statement has been referred to the Privileges Committee and there it should stay, as per parliamentary procedure, but that's not good enough for Abbott - he's appointed himself a one-man judge, jury and executioner, and he's out for blood. The big worry about Thomson is that he's clearly not dealing well with the pressure; I'm sure the party is giving him all the support they can in the hope they can prevent a meltdown.

But as an image of the man who wants to run the country, Abbott doesn't cut it for anyone with half a brain. There is no policy, there is not even a clearly thought-out credo of what he thinks is wrong with the country, and what he could do to fix it. It's just about bringing down Craig Thomson at any price, and with him the government. it's hard to escape the thought that if he could take a club to the government and mow them down, he would. He's positively neanderthal. He's an ugly man, and it's very hard to believe he has a functioning brain.

One can only hope that the Slipper case could be concluded quickly so the government knows whether they have Slipper's vote or not. I suspect Ashby might not prove to be a credible witness; there's a lot of murky dealings around him. Besides, whatever his faults, Slipper is a good Speaker, and it would be good to have him back in the chair. But a resolution in his favour would take the heat off the government for a moment, although a finding against him could be the death knell.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Reply #8)

Wed May 23, 2012, 04:15 AM

9. Excellent summary of today's proceedings.

It's well worth reading, because the Opposition is getting closer and closer to the sewers, and this summary details the depth to
which Abbott is taking his party.

On Abbott's performance:

This is the man who shut down Question Time at 2.45pm, with over 30 minutes remaining.

This is the man who refused to keep to the rules of debating SSO motions because it was apparently more important to insult the Prime Minister and deliver a soundbite for the evening news than to respect House Practice.

This is the man who led the call for Craig Thomson to ‘explain himself’ to the House by making a statement in Parliament, and got his wish.

This is the man who led the call for that same statement to be referred to the Privileges Committee, because he claimed that Thomson had misled the Parliament.

http://consciencevote.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/whats-good-for-the-goose/

Do read it all - it's great.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Reply #9)

Thu May 24, 2012, 11:16 PM

11. I was so impressed with "What's good for the goose"

that I printed it. I'll take it to my "Current affairs" group next time I go.

I have now come to the conclusion that Tony Abbott is pure evil. I watched part of an interview this morning and he had the audacity to blame Julia Gillard for the stress that Craig Thomson is now under. How, after all the venom he has thrown and encouragement he has given the media, it turns out its not his fault after all.

I am now genuinely afraid that if he becomes PM our country will be in dire straights.

If Mal Washer is truly concerned about Thomson's health, why does he vote with the opposition to cause more harm? The coalition is now trying to find ways to cover their sorry arses just in case Craig does do something to himself. Look what Abbott and his pitbulls have done to our country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Reply #4)

Sat May 26, 2012, 07:07 AM

13. Pyne & Abbott are just whingers

Pyne & Abbott as just that whingers.They have never forgiven the Independants for siding with Labor and as far as they are concerned they are the better party.....'NEWSFLASH' to both of them.Thank God we dont have the Libs 'screwing' us again after 14 years of the Howard Regime,in which Mr.Abbott was Health Minister.Mr.Howard stated in 1999 that there would 'Never be a GST under his watch' BUT OMG what short memories that Libs have got when they attack the Labor Party and Julia Gillard.
As far as Craig Thompson is concerned the Libs are trying to be judge,jury and excecutioner,whichj I believe may be a Liberal Party agreement,BUT isnt a Labor Party agreement.
Its time that Mr.Pyne shut his neck and Mr.Abbott actually agreed with something that the Labor Pary made as policy.We havent as yet seen any policy from the Abbott side of the fence,so how or where do we get off stating that Mr.Abbott would make a better PM........the bloke is a NUT and so is his party

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Original post)

Thu May 24, 2012, 01:40 AM

10. From Greg Hunt today:

"The carbon tax was designed to destroy jobs in the aluminium sector".

Of course, that's what governments do - deliberately destroy businesses.

Greg Hunt used to be a human once, and even believed in man-made climate change under the leadership of Malcolm Turnbull, whom he supported against Abbott. That he has now drunk the Abbott Kool-Aid shows how low he has sunk.

I feel sick.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Reply #10)

Thu May 24, 2012, 11:17 PM

12. I feel sick too n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Reply #10)

Sat May 26, 2012, 07:11 AM

14. Do you know what its all about

The Carbon Tax or Clean Air Bill is designed to cut the main intigators down on poluting the sky.
That is the original reason for the tax.There are many LARGE companies that pump this foul smelling carbon monoxide into the iar for us all to breath.This is why E10 is in many servos.
The Opposition will NEVER repeal the legislation,as when and if Mr.Abbott comes to power well he will see how much money is being made and he will keep it.
Mr.Abbott is all talk and no action.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to peakhillfm (Reply #14)

Sun May 27, 2012, 09:16 PM

15. It's going to be interesting to see what happens,

especially if he does get control of both houses, which is just possible.

It's going to be very difficult for him to announce that he's cutting family payments and pensions, and dropping the tax-free threshold again, but if he doesn't, where will the money come from without the carbon tax and the mining tax? And since electricity costs are rising rapidly already and will continue to do so, cutting compensation won't be a popular move.

But Abbott always talks first and thinks afterwards ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matilda (Original post)

Mon May 28, 2012, 07:19 AM

16. Abbott is all talk and no action

typical is his comment today in parliament concerning the refrigeration company that has gone broke due to one of the staff 'cooking' the books.Abbott had the hide to state that it happened due to the 'carbon tax' goes to show how much notice he is taking?????
Tony Abbott is hell bent on making a mountain out of a molehill and he dosent care who he hurts on the way thru.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to peakhillfm (Reply #16)

Tue May 29, 2012, 03:09 AM

17. Oh, every business going under in Australia now

is all the fault of the carbon tax, which hasn't even kicked in yet.

But there are plenty of bozos out there who won't even question it.

The sort who read the Daily Toe-rag and listen to Alan Jones.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread