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Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:21 AM

Corbett: PA Needs to Keep the Weakest Gun Laws in the Country

So the Republicans in Harrisburg have developed a sudden interest in mental health programs -- in order to deflect attention away from gun laws. These are the same people who have been slashing funding for mental health services.

PA. really has the weakest gun laws in the country. Phila. tried to pass their own stricter laws, and the state preempted them.

There are no PA. state laws on assault weapons. I opened up my newspaper the morning after the Connecticut shootings and it was filled with ads for assault weapons.

There are no PA. state laws on sizes of ammo clips. In fact, you can buy 100 round ammo clips/magazines in PA. (The Connecticut shooter used 30 round clips). Other states limit clips to around 10 rounds, which gives a would-be-hero a chance to stop a mass shooter while he reloads. Even the proverbial woman with a .22 hidden in her purse can not take out a mass shooter in a hail of gunfire.

Most states adjacent to PA. have strict gun laws. However, PA allows any government issued ID to be used, so residents of those states are welcome to come to PA. and buy everything they want. Welcome, Bedford-Sty gangs! Mayor Bloomsburg often cites PA. as a source of guns for NYC criminals.

For most purchasers in PA, there is no waiting period. (The Connecticut shooter tried to buy firearms a couple days before the slaughter, but he was turned away because of Connecticut's 14 day waiting period. Unfortunately, his survivalist mother already had a huge stash of guns to choose from).

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Here's the latest from One Term Tommy.

http://articles.mcall.com/2012-12-18/news/mc-pa-corbett-new-gun-laws-20121218_1_new-gun-control-laws-gun-violence-tom-corbett

"There's going to be discussions, obviously, starting at the national level about the issue of guns," Corbett told reporters at a manufacturing plant in Dover. "We're not going to get into that discussion right now. We're going through the funeral process. I think we owe that to those children. We need to take some time."

But key to the future discussion on the Sandy Hook shootings will be, "What do you do with someone who has a mental illness?" Corbett asked "How do you identify them, the person who is all of a sudden going to commit such a heinous crime? That's going to be the biggest challenge."

Corbett has been criticized by advocates for the disabled and the mentally ill for cutting state support for treatment and other services in his first two state budgets. On Tuesday, he acknowledged "there is a great deal of demand for services from the state and the federal government."

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So we need to rush to action in a couple weeks to give away our State Lottery to a British Corporation - for the next few decades, but we shouldn't be in any hurry to protect our school kids?

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Previously, some very modest efforts were proposed to try to curb the serious problem of straw buyers, but they were all shot down.

A criminal with a felony record has his girlfriend buy him a stash of weapons. When they turn up at a murder scene, the girlfriend says - "... oh, they were... ah stolen."

In response, there was an attempt to limit firearms purchases to one per month. Didn't get anywhere. Then there was a proposed law requiring gun owners to report a lost or stolen gun to the police. Didn't get anywhere, despite the strong support of local police.



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Reply Corbett: PA Needs to Keep the Weakest Gun Laws in the Country (Original post)
JPZenger Dec 2012 OP
Freedomofspeech Dec 2012 #1
JPZenger Dec 2012 #2
Glassunion Dec 2012 #6
happyslug Dec 2012 #9
Glassunion Dec 2012 #10
happyslug Dec 2012 #8
JPZenger Dec 2012 #3
malthaussen Dec 2012 #4
Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #5
TimKeller Dec 2012 #7

Response to JPZenger (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:33 AM

1. I am so weary...

Having Corbett as a governor is the worst thing to ever happen to PA...the man is pure evil.

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Response to JPZenger (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:47 AM

2. Background checks only required for handguns at Gun Shows

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/gun-show-loophole/gun-show-loophole-faq

Federal law only requires licensed dealers to do background checks of firearms purchasers. Many people selling at gun shows are not licensed dealers. PA. only requires sellers at gun shows to do background checks of handgun purchasers. As a result, you can buy assault weapons at a gun show in PA. without even the most basic of background checks.

There are hundreds of gun shows a year in Pa.

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Response to JPZenger (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:21 AM

6. I'm not 100% if that is accurate.

I thought PA state law stated that any rifle with a barrel length under 18" had to have a BG check as well.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:53 PM

9. Actual it is barrels under 16 inch for rifles, 18 inches for Shotguns, the same as in Federal law

It is under the definition section of the Model Firearms Code: 18 Pa.C.S. § 6102

"Firearm." --Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:16 PM

10. Thanks for the clarification.

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Response to JPZenger (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:52 PM

8. Pennsylvania requires all PISTOLS to be transferred via a dealer or the County Sheriff

To understand the PA Law you must understand that the law uses the term "Firearm" and then defines that term as follows (excludes rifles and shotguns). Please note this is the same langugage used in the Federal Firearms Act, defining what is illegal as a "Firearm" and what most people consider firearms as NOT being a firearm:

"Firearm." --Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6102


Please note the law is CHANGING effective 12-24-2012:

Here is the old law:
§ 6111. Sale or transfer of firearms. (Effective until December 24, 2012)


(a) Time and manner of delivery.

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no seller shall deliver a firearm to the purchaser or transferee thereof until 48 hours shall have elapsed from the time of the application for the purchase thereof, and, when delivered, the firearm shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded.

(2) Thirty days after publication in the Pennsylvania Bulletin that the Instantaneous Criminal History Records Check System has been established in accordance with the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103-159, 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.), no seller shall deliver a firearm to the purchaser thereof until the provisions of this section have been satisfied, and, when delivered, the firearm shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded.

(b) Duty of seller. --No licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer shall sell or deliver any firearm to another person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer or licensed collector, until the conditions of subsection (a) have been satisfied and until he has:

(1) For purposes of a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), obtained a completed application/record of sale from the potential buyer or transferee to be filled out in triplicate, the original copy to be sent to the Pennsylvania State Police, postmarked via first class mail, within 14 days of the sale, one copy to be retained by the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer for a period of 20 years and one copy to be provided to the purchaser or transferee. The form of this application/record of sale shall be no more than one page in length and shall be promulgated by the Pennsylvania State Police and provided by the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer. The application/record of sale shall include the name, address, birthdate, gender, race, physical description and Social Security number of the purchaser or transferee, the date of the application and the caliber, length of barrel, make, model and manufacturer's number of the firearm to be purchased or transferred. The application/record of sale shall also contain the following question:

Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s), as defined under 18 Pa.C.S.
§ 6102 (relating to definitions), listed on this application/record of sale?
Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on
behalf of another person, unless you are legitimately acquiring the firearm as
a gift for any of the following individuals who are legally eligible to own a
firearm: (1) spouse; (2) parent; (3) child; (4) grandparent; or (5) grandchild.

(1.1) On the date of publication in the Pennsylvania Bulletin of a notice by the Pennsylvania State Police that the instantaneous records check has been implemented, all of the following shall apply:

(i) In the event of an electronic failure under section 6111.1(b)(2) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police) for purposes of a firearm which exceeds the barrel and related lengths set forth in section 6102, obtained a completed application/record of sale from the potential buyer or transferee to be filled out in triplicate, the original copy to be sent to the Pennsylvania State Police, postmarked via first class mail, within 14 days of sale, one copy to be retained by the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer for a period of 20 years and one copy to be provided to the purchaser or transferee.

(ii) The form of the application/record of sale shall be no more than one page in length and shall be promulgated by the Pennsylvania State Police and provided by the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer.

(iii) For purposes of conducting the criminal history, juvenile delinquency and mental health records background check which shall be completed within ten days of receipt of the information from the dealer, the application/record of sale shall include the name, address, birthdate, gender, race, physical description and Social Security number of the purchaser or transferee and the date of application.

(iv) No information regarding the type of firearm need be included other than an indication that the firearm exceeds the barrel lengths set forth in section 6102.

(v) Unless it has been discovered pursuant to a criminal history, juvenile delinquency and mental health records background check that the potential purchaser or transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms), no information on the application/record of sale provided pursuant to this subsection shall be retained as precluded by section 6111.4 (relating to registration of firearms) by the Pennsylvania State Police either through retention of the application/record of sale or by entering the information onto a computer, and, further, an application/record of sale received by the Pennsylvania State Police pursuant to this subsection shall be destroyed within 72 hours of the completion of the criminal history, juvenile delinquency and mental health records background check.

(1.2) Fees collected under paragraph (3) and section 6111.2 (relating to firearm sales surcharge) shall be transmitted to the Pennsylvania State Police within 14 days of collection.

(1.3) In addition to the criminal penalty under section 6119 (relating to violation penalty), any person who knowingly and intentionally maintains or fails to destroy any information submitted to the Pennsylvania State Police for purposes of a background check pursuant to paragraphs (1.1) and (1.4) or violates section 6111.4 shall be subject to a civil penalty of $ 250 per violation, entry or failure to destroy.

(1.4) Following implementation of the instantaneous records check by the Pennsylvania State Police on or before December 1, 1998, no application/record of sale shall be completed for the purchase or transfer of a firearm which exceeds the barrel lengths set forth in section 6102. A statement shall be submitted by the dealer to the Pennsylvania State Police, postmarked via first class mail, within 14 days of the sale, containing the number of firearms sold which exceed the barrel and related lengths set forth in section 6102, the amount of surcharge and other fees remitted and a list of the unique approval numbers given pursuant to paragraph (4), together with a statement that the background checks have been performed on the firearms contained in the statement. The form of the statement relating to performance of background checks shall be promulgated by the Pennsylvania State Police.

(2) Inspected photoidentification of the potential purchaser or transferee, including, but not limited to, a driver's license, official Pennsylvania photoidentification card or official government photoidentification card. In the case of a potential buyer or transferee who is a member of a recognized religious sect or community whose tenets forbid or discourage the taking of photographs of members of that sect or community, a seller shall accept a valid-without-photo driver's license or a combination of documents, as prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police, containing the applicant's name, address, date of birth and the signature of the applicant.

(3) Requested by means of a telephone call that the Pennsylvania State Police conduct a criminal history, juvenile delinquency history and a mental health record check. The purchaser and the licensed dealer shall provide such information as is necessary to accurately identify the purchaser. The requester shall be charged a fee equivalent to the cost of providing the service but not to exceed $ 2 per buyer or transferee.

(4) Received a unique approval number for that inquiry from the Pennsylvania State Police and recorded the date and the number on the application/record of sale form.

(5) Issued a receipt containing the information from paragraph (4), including the unique approval number of the purchaser. This receipt shall be prima facie evidence of the purchaser's or transferee's compliance with the provisions of this section.

(6) Unless it has been discovered pursuant to a criminal history, juvenile delinquency and mental health records background check that the potential purchaser or transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to section 6105, no information received via telephone following the implementation of the instantaneous background check system from a purchaser or transferee who has received a unique approval number shall be retained by the Pennsylvania State Police.

(7) For purposes of the enforcement of 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(9), (g)(1) and (s)(1) (relating to unlawful acts), in the event the criminal history or juvenile delinquency background check indicates a conviction for a misdemeanor that the Pennsylvania State Police cannot determine is or is not related to an act of domestic violence, the Pennsylvania State Police shall issue a temporary delay of the approval of the purchase or transfer. During the temporary delay, the Pennsylvania State Police shall conduct a review or investigation of the conviction with courts, local police departments, district attorneys and other law enforcement or related institutions as necessary to determine whether or not the misdemeanor conviction involved an act of domestic violence. The Pennsylvania State Police shall conduct the review or investigation as expeditiously as possible. No firearm may be transferred by the dealer to the purchaser who is the subject of the investigation during the temporary delay. The Pennsylvania State Police shall notify the dealer of the termination of the temporary delay and either deny the sale or provide the unique approval number under paragraph (4).

(c) Duty of other persons. --Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

(d) Defense. --Compliance with the provisions of this section shall be a defense to any criminal complaint under the laws of this Commonwealth or other claim or cause of action under this chapter arising from the sale or transfer of any firearm.

(e) Nonapplicability of section. --This section shall not apply to the following:

(1) Any firearm manufactured on or before 1898.

(2) Any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock or percussion cap type of ignition system.

(3) Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (1) if the replica:

(i) is not designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition; or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

(f) Application of section.

(1) For the purposes of this section only, except as provided by paragraph (2), "firearm" shall mean any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

(2) The provisions contained in subsections (a) and (c) shall only apply to pistols or revolvers with a barrel length of less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, any rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches or any firearm with an overall length of less than 26 inches.

(3) The provisions contained in subsection (a) shall not apply to any law enforcement officer whose current identification as a law enforcement officer shall be construed as a valid license to carry a firearm or any person who possesses a valid license to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).

(i) The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to any person who presents to the seller or transferor a written statement issued by the official described in subparagraph (iii) during the ten-day period ending on the date of the most recent proposal of such transfer or sale by the transferee or purchaser stating that the transferee or purchaser requires access to a firearm because of a threat to the life of the transferee or purchaser or any member of the household of that transferee or purchaser.

(ii) The issuing official shall notify the applicant's local police authority that such a statement has been issued. In counties of the first class the chief of police shall notify the police station or substation closest to the applicant's residence.

(iii) The statement issued under subparagraph (ii) shall be issued by the district attorney, or his designee, of the county of residence if the transferee or purchaser resides in a municipality where there is no chief of police. Otherwise, the statement shall be issued by the chief of police in the municipality in which the purchaser or transferee resides.

(g) Penalties.

(1) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed importer who knowingly or intentionally sells, delivers or transfers a firearm in violation of this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.

(2) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed importer who knowingly or intentionally sells, delivers or transfers a firearm under circumstances intended to provide a firearm to any person, purchaser or transferee who is unqualified or ineligible to control, possess or use a firearm under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree and shall in addition be subject to revocation of the license to sell firearms for a period of three years.

(3) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed importer who knowingly and intentionally requests a criminal history, juvenile delinquency or mental health record check or other confidential information from the Pennsylvania State Police under this chapter for any purpose other than compliance with this chapter or knowingly and intentionally disseminates any criminal history, juvenile delinquency or mental health record or other confidential information to any person other than the subject of the information commits a felony of the third degree.

(3.1) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed importer who knowingly and intentionally obtains or furnishes information collected or maintained pursuant to section 6109 for any purpose other than compliance with this chapter or who knowingly or intentionally disseminates, publishes or otherwise makes available such information to any person other than the subject of the information commits a felony of the third degree.

(4) Any person, purchaser or transferee commits a felony of the third degree if, in connection with the purchase, delivery or transfer of a firearm under this chapter, he knowingly and intentionally:

(i) makes any materially false oral statement;

(ii) makes any materially false written statement, including a statement on any form promulgated by Federal or State agencies; or

(iii) willfully furnishes or exhibits any false identification intended or likely to deceive the seller, licensed dealer or licensed manufacturer.

(5) Notwithstanding section 306 (relating to liability for conduct of another; complicity) or any other statute to the contrary, any person, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed manufacturer who knowingly and intentionally sells, delivers or transfers a firearm in violation of this chapter who has reason to believe that the firearm is intended to be used in the commission of a crime or attempt to commit a crime shall be criminally liable for such crime or attempted crime.

(6) Notwithstanding any act or statute to the contrary, any person, licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer who knowingly and intentionally sells or delivers a firearm in violation of this chapter who has reason to believe that the firearm is intended to be used in the commission of a crime or attempt to commit a crime shall be liable in the amount of the civil judgment for injuries suffered by any person so injured by such crime or attempted crime.

(h) Subsequent violation penalty.

(1) A second or subsequent violation of this section shall be a felony of the second degree and shall be punishable by a mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of five years. A second or subsequent offense shall also result in permanent revocation of any license to sell, import or manufacture a firearm.


Under the New Law Effective 12-24-2012 (h) (1) is reworded as follows:

(1) A second or subsequent violation of this section shall be a felony of the second degree. A person who at the time of sentencing has been convicted of another offense under this section shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of five years. A second or subsequent offense shall also result in permanent revocation of any license to sell, import or manufacture a firearm.


(2) Notice of the applicability of this subsection to the defendant and reasonable notice of the Commonwealth's intention to proceed under this section shall be provided prior to trial. The applicability of this section shall be determined at sentencing. The court shall consider evidence presented at trial, shall afford the Commonwealth and the defendant an opportunity to present necessary additional evidence and shall determine by a preponderance of the evidence if this section is applicable.

(3) There shall be no authority for a court to impose on a defendant to which this subsection is applicable a lesser sentence than provided for in paragraph (1), to place the defendant on probation or to suspend sentence. Nothing in this section shall prevent the sentencing court from imposing a sentence greater than that provided in this section. Sentencing guidelines promulgated by the Pennsylvania Commission on Sentencing shall not supersede the mandatory sentences provided in this section.

(4) If a sentencing court refuses to apply this subsection where applicable, the Commonwealth shall have the right to appellate review of the action of the sentencing court. The appellate court shall vacate the sentence and remand the case to the sentencing court for imposition of a sentence in accordance with this section if it finds that the sentence was imposed in violation of this subsection.

Under the law effective 12-24-2012 the following is added:

(5) For the purposes of this subsection, a person shall be deemed to have been convicted of another offense under this section whether or not judgment of sentence has been imposed for that violation.



(i) Confidentiality. --All information provided by the potential purchaser, transferee or applicant, including, but not limited to, the potential purchaser, transferee or applicant's name or identity, furnished by a potential purchaser or transferee under this section or any applicant for a license to carry a firearm as provided by section 6109 shall be confidential and not subject to public disclosure. In addition to any other sanction or penalty imposed by this chapter, any person, licensed dealer, State or local governmental agency or department that violates this subsection shall be liable in civil damages in the amount of $ 1,000 per occurrence or three times the actual damages incurred as a result of the violation, whichever is greater, as well as reasonable attorney fees.

(j) Exemption.

(1) The provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to:

(i) sales between Federal firearms licensees; or

(ii) the purchase of firearms by a chief law enforcement officer or his designee, for the official use of law enforcement officers.

(2) For the purposes of this subsection, the term "chief law enforcement officer" shall include the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police, the chief or head of a police department, a county sheriff or any equivalent law enforcement official.


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Response to JPZenger (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:20 AM

3. Link to excellent post about various types of firearms

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Response to JPZenger (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:43 PM

4. This, I believe, is the key sentence:

"there is a great deal of demand for services from the state and the federal government."

Or, in other words, "we need to look at increasing privatized mental health services since the demand is so great."

-- Mal

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Response to JPZenger (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:51 PM

5. Sure, we don't want to get into this discussion now......

he wants to wait until everything blows over and people go back to worrying about what Honey Boo Boo is doing.

If he hasn't noticed, this is about the only discussion going on everywhere.

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Response to JPZenger (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:27 AM

7. Former PA House Staffer - New to DU - Daryl Metcalfe Hater

Posted on this on my blog The Stubborn Mule

Yet, even in Pennsylvania, my home state, where I worked within the state legislature I experienced the vastness of the political spectrum and sheer absurdity of some members of the GOP. One in particular, the Chairman of the State Government Committee, Representative Daryl Metcalfe, who is the proud owner of ten brain cells, explicitly stated there will be no new state legislation on gun control. That’s it, period. Even with children being laid to rest just a few hundred miles north of his legislative district, murdered from a weapon of war, he responds so arrogantly and definitively. Not even a discussion, no voice of dissent, just closing the door or in this case, the casket.

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