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Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:33 PM

Oregon looks at per-mile tax on gas sippers

Source:http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/jan/03/oregon-looks-at-per-mile-tax-on-gas-sippers/

"SALEM, Ore. (AP) -- Oregon state officials are proposing an alternative tax for drivers who have bought efficient or electric vehicles that seldom or never stop at the gasoline pump -- where government has traditionally collected money to build and fix roads.
But the automaking industry calls the idea of mileage taxes another roadblock for efficient vehicles.
In its upcoming session, the Oregon Legislature is expected to consider a bill to require drivers with a vehicle getting at least 55 miles per gallon of gasoline or the equivalent to pay a per-mile tax after 2015.
Because it raises taxes, such legislation would need approval by three-fifths votes in both the House and Senate.
The tax would be based on mileage reports that could be made in a variety of ways, such as via smartphone app or GPS technology. Drivers could also pay..."


continued...

Why are none of the legislators proposing this bill named???

And, why is it not mentioned that electric car owners would be "fueling up" from the electric grid, which is already taxed! So the revenue generated from fueling up at the pump would not be lost, only transferred to the electric grid tax.

Obviously, I am not an anti-government, anti-tax nut but it looks like legislators have not accounted for the electricity tax that would kick in for electric car owners or are they trying to pull a fast one on Oregon tax payers?

I'm not from Oregon so maybe I'm missing something???

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply Oregon looks at per-mile tax on gas sippers (Original post)
Shankapotomus Jan 2013 OP
Maven Jan 2013 #1
Shankapotomus Jan 2013 #2
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #3
Shankapotomus Jan 2013 #4
RickFromMN Jan 2013 #5
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #6
RickFromMN Jan 2013 #8
aardvark401 Jan 2013 #7
RickFromMN Jan 2013 #9
thetonka Jan 2013 #10
davidpdx Feb 2013 #11
0rganism Feb 2013 #12
Shankapotomus Feb 2013 #13
0rganism Feb 2013 #14

Response to Shankapotomus (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:55 PM

1. I wonder what oil company is behind this shit

Never gonna happen. Not once the public gets wind of it...bastards

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Response to Maven (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:06 PM

2. I don't know

but the electric car companies don't like it.

Someone mentioned on another board they are pretty sure it will not pass, as indeed it shouldn't.

However, even if it passed, it should be made clear electric car owners still wouldn't be paying for gas. It would be more like just paying the gas tax every time you filled up.

Nice sig, btw.

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Response to Shankapotomus (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:35 PM

3. Historically fuel taxes paid for roads

Heavier/less fuel efficient cars used more gas, and therefore paid more taxes. Hi milers did the same. With everyone using gasoline, it was a reasonable model. However with light to medium sized cars that pay practically no fuel taxes growing in popularity, how do you suggest Oregon pay for roads and road repair?

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:15 PM

4. More incentives to buy electric cars

Then they can have a real tax through the extra electricity use instead of a "false" one not related to the actual "fuel" being used by the vehicle.

But I'm not adverse to taxes to pay for roads.

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Response to Shankapotomus (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:41 PM

5. Why not make it all vehicles pay the per-mile tax irrespective of the mileage they get?


This way, a gas car pays at the pump and pays the per-mile tax.

An electric car only pays the per-mile tax.

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Response to RickFromMN (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 08:59 AM

6. the idea is that all drivers should be paying an equitable amount of road upkeep...

the goal is balance, not abuse of those who are not wealthy enough to buy a Chevy Volt or a Tesla Roadster. Right now, electric and hybrid are more expensive and thus owned more often by people with more money. In addition, there is a tax credit for the purchase of such vehicles. So those wealthier drivers are getting breaks off the backs of people stuck in their old Tersel, which got 34 mpg for the last 15 years, while a break is going to some cat who just bought a Volt after 15 years of getting 11 miles per gallon out of some SUV. How is that fair, and how would that help with road upkeep?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:24 PM

8. Of course more wealthy people will be early adopters. I would be too if I could afford it.


Regarding electric cars, I feel it is a question of innovation, volume, reaching critical mass.

We need innovation in battery development.
We need to increase the volume of electric cars on the road.
We need to reach a critical mass.

The gas tax was a tool to pay for roads.
The gas tax can still be used as an incentive to help clean up our air.

If one wishes to argue electricity is produced using dirty methods,
let's heavily tax the production of electricity from coal and oil.

Let's move the country to producing electricity from wind and solar and other cleaner sources.
Don't try to argue the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine.
We have to learn how to store excess power during low usage times for peak times for load balancing purposes anway.


If you wish to complain about road upkeep, let's have an additional, yearly tax based on the weight of the vehicle. The heavier the vehicle, the more damage the vehicle does to the roads, the more the vehicle renewal fee can be.

The question remains. Why shouldn't every driver pay the same per-mile fee?

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Response to Shankapotomus (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:15 PM

7. tracking your travels

 

Of course all cars would have to be equipped with devices to tell tax collectors how far you've traveled and, most likely, what stops you made and where you were all along the route.

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Response to aardvark401 (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:29 PM

9. You mean people will tamper with the odometer?


People might tamper with the odometer now to sell a vehicle claiming the vehicle has less miles.
We have laws to discourage such behavior. Are you saying those laws aren't stringent enough?

Are you saying we can't trust the odometer if we plan to buy a used car?
What changes to the laws would you suggest to stop people who might think to tamper with the odometer?

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Response to Shankapotomus (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 02:41 PM

10. The problem with the tax on electricity

is the question of how much of it goes to the roads. The gas tax is supposed to support maintenance and updates to the road infrastructure, the electricity tax is not. So while there is a tax on the electricity, how much of it goes to maintain the roads that the EV wears out?



And, why is it not mentioned that electric car owners would be "fueling up" from the electric grid, which is already taxed! So the revenue generated from fueling up at the pump would not be lost, only transferred to the electric grid tax.

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Response to thetonka (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:17 AM

11. Good point

How much does a consumer pay in taxes on electricity? I haven't lived in Oregon for awhile now as I'm overseas.

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Response to Shankapotomus (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:52 PM

12. this seems like an easily-solved problem

Problem: highly efficient vehicles don't pay as much for road upkeep in per-gallon gasoline taxes to directly support road maintenance
Solution: as the gasoline tax revenues decrease, compensate with higher income taxes and use more general funds for road maintenance

Considerations:
- The income tax is one of the few halfway progressive taxes we have.
- I sure as hell don't want to discourage people from purchasing or benefitting from high-efficiency vehicles.
- A per-mile tax may seem like a good idea, but it disproportionately affects lower-income individuals who must commute long distances and may still be paying the high gas taxes on an inefficient vehicle they can't afford to replace.

Usage taxes tend to be regressive. I'm not a fan.


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Response to 0rganism (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:17 PM

13. So I gather if

you are advocating compensating with higher income taxes, you would be in favor of relaxing taxes on electricity usage? I don't want to see electric and hybrid car buyers discourage either.

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Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 03:40 AM

14. in principle, yes

in practice, the electricity providers would probably jack the rates enough to erase any savings so i'm not at all confident consumers would see a dime of difference.

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