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Thu Dec 6, 2012, 04:01 PM

Right to work for less and destroy collective bargining

the Michigan legislature is jamming RTWFL through in the lame duck as we speak, I'm told they're even blocking the live-feed from the senate floor...

24 replies, 2162 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Right to work for less and destroy collective bargining (Original post)
veganlush Dec 2012 OP
MichiganVote Dec 2012 #1
freshwest Dec 2012 #5
navarth Dec 2012 #7
pbrower2a Dec 2012 #13
freshwest Dec 2012 #14
GreenEyedLefty Dec 2012 #19
MichiganVote Dec 2012 #21
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #2
MichiganVote Dec 2012 #22
jody Dec 2012 #3
Lefty48197 Dec 2012 #4
LovingA2andMI Dec 2012 #6
navarth Dec 2012 #8
freshwest Dec 2012 #15
navarth Dec 2012 #16
freshwest Dec 2012 #18
navarth Dec 2012 #20
Lefty48197 Dec 2012 #23
freshwest Dec 2012 #24
MichiganVote Dec 2012 #11
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #9
HelenWheels Dec 2012 #10
navarth Dec 2012 #17
lonestarnot Dec 2012 #12

Response to veganlush (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:06 PM

1. Goodbye Michigan.....

Right to work for less law

Barriers to the voted for Medical Marijuana Law voted for by the people of Michigan

Continuous battles over emergency management laws; voters rejected it, they are introducing it again only in a different color package

Welfare reduced to minimum time related packages regardless of the lack of a safety net

Huge tax breaks for business-nada for citizens

Decapitation of public education-VOUCHERS R US

What's next?

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:10 AM

5. ACA exchange against women getting abortions and cutting off welfare for the childern born.

Roadways handed over to private corporations, schools being closed, parks being given to the rich... I'm not sure if it's widespread poverty in parts of MI or fundamentalist religion causing these ls. I have a doctor who grew up outside of Detroit. When I ask what happened, he just shakes his head. He only goes to visit his aging parents. It just seems like the heart and soul of MI has been torn out from these sad stories. I'm sure there are many great and beautiful places and people there, but these things seem like a terrible blow the state of Michigan.


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Response to freshwest (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:38 AM

7. These are terrible blows.

And there is a significant portion of the populace that thinks our troubles are caused by unions. Just try and convince them it's capitalism screwing them. The right wing media has done it's job.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 07:22 PM

13. Michigan -- becoming the economic cesspool of the Midwest?

I hope not... but Michigan is a nasty place unless one has a solid middle income. It has few attractions, so people have to rely upon well-backed consumerism that only solid pay usually from union wages could support. Schools were good because union pay let industrial workers afford homes that could support property taxes to fund schools. Michigan got good roads early because workers earning union wages could afford cars rather than rely upon mass transit and because people with cars needed good roads. The biggest purveyor of music by and for African-Americans, Motown, started in Detroit because Michigan had the largest number of black people making solid pay at union jobs that ensured equal pay for equal work. Blue-collar workers could have hope that their children would never have to do the hard work in a factory or foundry and could use their union wages to send their kids to college to become teachers, preachers, and engineers. Well-motivated workers in unionized plants in Greater Detroit -- and even in small towns -- outproduced the slave labor in urban areas of similar size Nazi Germany and Thug Japan and created the material foundation of American victories in World War II.

Rick Snyder has betrayed that. Republicans, mostly Tea Party pols, have betrayed that. Americans for Prosperity (for only a few)? It has no loyalty to any but a small cadre of super-rich plutocrats, so it is doing what such people do on their own behalf.

Right-to-work laws make industrial work something to avoid at all costs. Employers get despotic power over their employees who usually decide to go elsewhere at the first opportunity. That is bad even for a work ethic. Union pay creates a strong work ethic that poverty can't. Poverty will cause people to vote with their feet, as they did from the Russian Empire... or Mississippi.


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Response to pbrower2a (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 08:33 PM

14. Powerful post on what built Michigan and America. Very direct, tough. Cesspool sounds harsh, yet the

Last edited Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:31 PM - Edit history (2)

GOP into power there. I knew a family for a few years that live in a rural area in the Michigan peninsula. They didn't have union jobs and didn't want to join one. They considered themselves to be rebels of a sort, but religious,

That was their comfort in life, but they never spouted any wingnuttery when I knew them. They saw themselves as working class with strong values. This is what I'm trying to understand, how this happened and why Michigan is going socically regressive enough to vote for Synder.

You give the most detailed history of what built Detroit, and Michigan. It was one of the economic powerhouses of my youth, all those cars and trucks. The Great Lakes and the factories seemed to be made for each other. All of the things you mentioned, I grew up with elsewhere.

I believe like the Bruce Springsteen song, that it was the rich that did this and not the working class at all, unless they were decieved. I don't know if it is inevitable that people will turn to conservatism, fundamentalism or fall in love with privatization and hate unions, if it's racism or what made people vote these people into office.

It must be terrible to see this continuing to assault the good people there. Thanks for your reply, you really nailed how union is the best way for prosperity. Oh, here's that song. Says it a bit, but perhaps there will be some other way to live in those big cities that lost industry:





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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:57 AM

19. What's next? More "education reform"

These bills were written before the right-to-work legislation was shoved through... it appears they wanted RTW to pass first so they could accomplish the following. A chill wind is blowing through Michigan, and it isn't because of the weather. I work in public education and it is getting incredibly ugly here.

From the Ferndale Patch:

Senate Bill 1358 and House Bill 6004 would expand an Education Achievement Authority (EAA) - a separate and statewide school district that would be overseen by a governor-appointed chancellor.

The new district would operate without oversight by the state superintendent of schools or the state board of education, Markavitch explained.

Even though there can be disagreements among residents with local school boards, "you have somebody you can go to" and work with on issues, she said. She asked whether the community "will get the same response from Wall Street, when they're running our schools?"

House Bill 5923 would create charter or virtual schools that could specialize and admit only students in particular interest areas.

Schools would be "specifying the type of students they want to serve," which Markavitch says allows for discrimination against students for any reason other than religion and would cause segregation.

"Discrimination with public money," she said, calling the proposed legislation "un-American."

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Response to GreenEyedLefty (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:24 PM

21. This is what the money bags do. They dismantle and then rebuild

according to what they want.

Financial District-check

Housing-check

Lousy labor laws-check

Medical-check

Education-check

We stumble around wounded not because the bottom dropped out of an economy- they created this economy. And they will do to education, exactly what they have done in other sectors.

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Response to veganlush (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:26 PM

2. Snyder said it wasn't on the table, no need for Proposal 2

And a lot of people believed him. We screwed ourselves big time.

Interesting that there's an exception for Police and Fire unions, no right-to-work there.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:25 PM

22. Because they are already on a work slow down due 2 lousy pay/wrking conditions

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Response to veganlush (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 06:12 PM

3. Alabama workers in Honda, Mercedes-Benz and Hyundai plants hope MI does not pass right to work.

 

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Response to veganlush (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 06:43 PM

4. Blame Mark Brewer

Oh sure, Snyder is a lying sack of rat shit. It wasn't even two months ago that he was saying that RTW was "too divisive". Now he's embracing it whole-heartedly. But the real blame lies on the shoulders of Michigan Democratic Party Chair Mark Brewer. He hasn't been able to assemble a sustainable majority in the Michigan House in the 17 years he's been Chair of the MDP. Brewer is a complete failure and he should resign in disgrace. Michigan workers will need to mount our own grass-roots movement to take back our state. The Michigan Democratic Party is too inept.

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Response to Lefty48197 (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:04 AM

6. LEFTY!!!

Your speaking to the choir here and you're RIGHT ON POINT in your post.

If Mark ---I LOST EVERYTHING, INCLUDING UNION RIGHTS IN MICHIGAN--- Brewer is allowed to STAY as CHAIRMAN of Michigan's Democratic Party AFTER THIS ---->RIGHT TO WORK FOR LESS<---- Michigan might have well get ready to LOSE to OHIO STATE for the next Ten Years in Football in a row.

And that would be THAT BAD, Indeed!!!

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Response to Lefty48197 (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:44 AM

8. I've been wondering about the ineptitude since this last Gov. election

What a travesty it was. I don't know what Mark Brewer is up against but I still can't understand how they could have done such a lousy job. At first they floated a DINO and after that didn't pass the smell test they fell into complete disarray. WTF?

I said it on another thread: this past gubernatorial election it seemed like everybody was sleepwalking through it. I had the Bernero bumper sticker, the sign on the lawn, got into arguments. Nobody seemed to care. One person told me he thought Snyder might just be exactly what we need. Well I guess he was right in the same sense that George W. Bush was just what a lot of people needed to get shaken out of the trees and do something.

I hope Michigan can overcome this insanity. Obama's been re-elected; the fight's totally at the local level now.

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Response to navarth (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 08:53 PM

15. I don't think DINOs would have submitted this bill and am glad to see you supported the Democrats.

This is not a beauty or drama contest. it's about the numbers and the voters. The voters for reasons that don't add up, voted for a GOP governor.

Were they so uneducated by their union that they didn't know what the GOP stood for, so peeved they allowed the Koch Brothers to push this bill and said nothing until it was a done deal? Were they the union Reagan Democrats?

I feel bad for Michigan if this is what happened. I used to work with a lot of people who came down south from the 'Rust Belt' to get jobs where we in a RTW state still made good pay with our union jobs.

But they voted for Reagan in the eighties, some said they hated Affirmative Action and Reagan was going to end it, no matter how hard our union begged them to vote for Carter. Democrats were too liberal and they were surprised when RR went after unions.

I find the frequent Democratic Party bashing offensive and not honest. That's been popular since Reagan. Thanks for your part to resist and showing solidarity.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:03 AM

16. Of course I supported the Dems

I could smell Snyder coming from a long way away. Michigan still bears some of the stench of Engler, the previous pig governor we had before Gov. Granholm freshened the air for 8 years.....what the fuck is it with these term limits? She would have been re-elected if she could have run....now I just watch her on Current.

I can tell you that IMO the biggest reason Snyder was able to pull it off was the Dems just didn't have their act together. And that's putting it mildly. In fairness I must repeat I don't know everything about what Mark Brewer was up against. But the fact remains: they just did not have their act together. I was complaining about it every email I sent them. Why were they so lousy? I have no idea.

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Response to navarth (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:05 AM

18. I've only found them to be 'lousy' in results when they weren't in a solid majority.

I know legislators personally I know the vile crap that they put up with. The shenanigans that the GOP and the privatization forces, who unfortunately are PART of the voting public, have been outrageous for at least the last ten years and more.

When we had a solid, solid Democratic majority where I live, we were virtually a social democracy type of place. Then the other money came in with full media support and it's been brutal ever since. It literally destroys their health and breaks their hearts. People that really know their legislators, see them in the community meetings and are active enough that they know YOUR name, get to see what is happening.

If Democrats in Michigan are failing you, get up close, learn what they are dealing with and get involved. I hate it when people tell me their people are no good, but don't follow the bills, the budgets, the pressure on them to bend. I've had my representatives who are everything an FDR Democrat is, but they are not run roughshot over because half the voting public gets all their information from media.

They end up having to prioritize to save lives, literally. So we don't get what we used to have. The truth is, the state is not what it used to be politically.

I know you are involved, but go to the state capitol, go to the meetings. We had a contingent of Badgers from WI come to our state to support our union workers. It made a difference as our Democratic gpvernor's heart was in the right place. If the GOP candidate had been in place, they would have sold everything out from under us. This is not just happeing in Michigan, as I'm sure you know. It's an orchestrated attack on labor and the commons. As the video in V & MM had the state senator speaking, the issue is people. Not business or unions, but how unions take care of people.

There are decisions being made everyday that must be followed in the private sector in meetings that impact public policy. Find out by visiting or calling Mark's office and what the issues are. I don't know that you haven't, but you said you don't know what he's up against. This is about philosophies of government. We have those the left and the right who want to get the government and unions out of everything.

It's best to make an appointment and reserve time for yourself and your fellows to tell him what you need, and what you can do for him, either by making the case in terms that will convince not him, but your neighbors. Believe me, if you couldn't get through to other union members to not vote for Synder, there are people Brewens can't get through.

Find out what kind of pressure is being applied and do what you can outside the capitol to change minds. He has to answer to everyone. The people you were unable to convince, have the right to vote and vote against what you believe. And they have done so.

Best luck with all of this.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:18 PM

20. They were lousy. For whatever reasons, they were lousy.

You had to be here to experience it. It took them forever to even get a candidate!! And then when Virg Bernero became our candidate, it seemed like he was having to do it all on his own. It was terrible. I think our state is shell-shocked from all the jobs lost and let's face it: not all Americans are educating themselves on the issues like we are. (I myself was guilty of this until GWB came into office.)

I will continue to be involved and do whatever I can to strike a blow for what's right. I will be looking into taking some trips to Lansing, our state capital. (Lansing is also hometown of Thom Hartmann and Nate Silver!)

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Response to freshwest (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:29 AM

23. The UAW decides who gets to be the party chair in Michigan

When we fail to make significant gains in our legislature (at the SAME time we're electing Obama twice by landslide majorities), then you're looking at the definition of failure. Obama wins Michigan handily but the Republicans have a super majority in the Senate? How the hell does that happen??

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Response to Lefty48197 (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:45 AM

24. 2010.

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Response to Lefty48197 (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 04:29 PM

11. +1

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Response to veganlush (Original post)


Response to veganlush (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:55 PM

10. So sorry, Michigan.

You are going through what we in Wisconsin have gone through.

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Response to HelenWheels (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:04 AM

17. I felt your fight when you were going through it,

almost as if it were here.

Now it IS here.

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Response to veganlush (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:32 AM

12. I understand they locked doors twice now over there.

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