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Fri Apr 27, 2012, 06:11 PM

It IS beautiful here and there are a LOT of very nice, progressive people here, too...

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... but, truth be told, there ARE way too many pricks both in and around the Arizona desert.
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11 replies, 2551 views

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Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply It IS beautiful here and there are a LOT of very nice, progressive people here, too... (Original post)
MiddleFingerMom Apr 2012 OP
monmouth Apr 2012 #1
ellenfl Apr 2012 #3
Ms. Toad Apr 2012 #4
mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #5
Ms. Toad Apr 2012 #6
mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #8
Ms. Toad Apr 2012 #9
ellenfl Apr 2012 #10
Ms. Toad Apr 2012 #11
A-Schwarzenegger Apr 2012 #7
OffWithTheirHeads Apr 2012 #2

Response to MiddleFingerMom (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 06:23 PM

1. C'mon down to Florida MFM, we have a few pricks here too but they're in Tally, the Donald

is over the bridge but he doesn't bother we peons...And then of course we do have Rush...sigh...nevermind...

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Response to monmouth (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 08:14 PM

3. you forgot ann coulter and the koch brothers. eom

Last edited Sat Apr 28, 2012, 01:38 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to ellenfl (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 07:45 AM

4. Thanks so much!

Last edited Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Note: leaving this here because of the discussion that follows - much appreciate the response!

Original response:

I expect you intended to insult Ann Coulter, but calling Ann Coulter "mann coulter" is using transgender people as an insult. The put down only works if being transgender is a bad thing, and being used as an insult is hurtful.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 08:35 AM

5. Overly sensitive?

I don't see the link between saying a certain female looks like a male and disparaging transgendered persons.

It seems as though you're looking for an insult that isn't there.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 09:35 AM

6. No. That "joke" actually is insulting and hurtful to transgender individuals.

Last edited Sat Apr 28, 2012, 12:40 PM - Edit history (2)

You may not be aware of the DU history on this issue, but it's was routinely deleted on DU2 by the moderators after a series of very long and painful discussions with individuals to whom it is insulting and hurtful, flamefests, and a fair amount of tombstoning.

To be clear, commenting on someone's perceived gender non-conformity as an insult is hurtful to people whose gender does not conform to the body they were born with.

It is challenging for many transgender women to be accepted as women, partly because of the remnants of what my dear transgender friend calls testosterone poisoning (e.g. larger hands, prominent Adam's apple, deeper voice, male pattern baldness). When they hear people - their DU friends who are theoretically open minded and supportive - negatively commenting on, or speculating about, the appearance of a woman because she is "mannish" or wondering what her "true" gender is, it cuts to the core because they know people are also saying it about them - behind their backs if not to their faces, and they have often heard it for years as invisible captive audiences to people who made such comments who never imagined anyone who might be hurt by it was listening. Many (if not most) of them fear they will never be accepted as women - or worse, will be subjected to violence because they won't ever be quite gender conforming enough.

Just a couple of weeks ago my friend, who has not yet transitioned, was despondent about the thought of ever being accepted as a woman. Her reaction was the result of sitting at lunch (invisible as a trans woman) through her co-worker's reactions' to a newscast in which one of the people in the story was someone whose gender caused disparaging speculation. From our conversations, I know that the thought of not ever fitting in - and being ridiculed because of it - is a source of pain and fear for her.

So - no, I'm not being overly sensitive. Comments like these are really hurtful to people for whom the issue of gender conformity is real and personal.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 12:00 PM

8. Apparently not

No, I wasn't aware of a history of that issue. Taken only at face value (and assuming the poster was as unaware as I was), both the poster and (this) reader apparently see nothing wrong with it.

Perhaps my skin is too thick... not only am I not insulted by things I read on the internet, I'm generally not even insulted by intentional slurs. Sometimes I forget that not everyone possesses such immunity. I guess I'm fortunate that my parents let me understand the "sticks and stones" lecture and take it to heart.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 12:24 PM

9. Take a look at my updated post

While you were responding I was updating it to give a little more background that might help you understand why this particular kind of insult is particularly hurtful (Even if it is "only" the Internet).

When grow up as an invisible minority - listening to hate speech directed at "others," by friends and family as well as the rest of the world, hate speech you secretly know also applies to you, you live terrified that someone will find you out, and you have friends who have been brutally beaten or killed just for not being gender conforming, it is a little more than sticks and stones.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 01:46 PM

10. i was not aware of that history either and i have changed the reference.

as a woman who is amused by constantly being called 'sir' when on the telephone, i only saw the (apparently bad) humor in the name.

ellen fl

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Response to ellenfl (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:17 PM

11. Thanks so much!

Responses like that make taking the time to explain it worth it!

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Response to mvccd1000 (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 09:58 AM

7. Underly sensitive?

Yes, you do not see.

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Response to MiddleFingerMom (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 07:17 PM

2. I may be wrong but I think we will be dumping the tea back into Boston harbor again this year

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