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Mon Apr 2, 2012, 09:02 PM

Hard number to find.


So with all the talk about how we need to reject Obamacare along with the Heritage Foundation that dragged it in, I decided to try and find out just how much a guy like me would have to pay to get Single Payer health insurance. Truth is, I’m an old boomer (about to be able to start in with Medicare, assuming Paul Ryan doesn’t end it) and not the best googler but I was only able to find a wide range of numbers and most were from the Hilary health care fights of the 1990s.

I’m starting this thread with the hope that people will find some meaningful links that will give the average guy like me something to figure on.

Obamacare expects a hard working guy like me to pay about 8.5% (at the most) of my income on Health insurance. Alternatively, I could opt for the “Penalty” which would run me 2.5% but gets me no insurance. The sites I did find show a range of 7% to 9% payroll tax on top of the medicare tax for single payer. That seems like a deal, especially if there are no co-pays, deductibles or bull shit. But is this 7-9% dependent on everyone paying that much? What about those earning less than the 133% of poverty level that will get Obamacare for free (Medicaid)? I totally support single payer and look forward to Medicare but I’m wondering about the numbers.

The 7-9% numbers are nothing to hang a hat on much less suggest to my Republican friends at the water cooler. (Truth is I have no Republican friends, just a tea party sister). So I’m hoping the DU gurus will help me out. Seriously, if the SCOTUS is about to throw Obamacare out because of the “Mandate” and DU is going to shift its support to Single Payer, having good numbers is essential. I thought this was all settled and really sort of forgot about worrying about healthcare, but listening to Scalia, Roberts and Alito has got me going. Please keep the ranting and insults to a minimum and just put up some numbers with a link.

Thanks for your help.

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Arrow 10 replies Author Time Post
Reply Hard number to find. (Original post)
rgbecker Apr 2012 OP
Cleita Apr 2012 #1
xtraxritical Apr 2012 #2
Cleita Apr 2012 #3
rgbecker Apr 2012 #6
Cleita Apr 2012 #7
rgbecker Apr 2012 #9
murphyj87 Jun 2012 #10
eridani Apr 2012 #4
rgbecker Apr 2012 #5
eridani Apr 2012 #8

Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Mon Apr 2, 2012, 09:20 PM

1. Best website out there for all things health care, single payer and Medicare is

Physicians for a National Health Program. Run by doctors from the Harvard Medical School.

http://www.pnhp.org/

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Response to Cleita (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 12:21 AM

2. Wow, thanks for the link. That's the best information I've seen on

 

our, United States, medical system. It explains the deficiency's of the system and gives knowledgeable and coherent solutions proposed by medical experts - doctors.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 12:23 AM

3. You are welcome.

I wish more people would go there.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 01:19 PM

6. It is a great site...can't find numbers.

Will continue to hunt but if you have a more specific link I'd appreciate it. In their proposal they say they are leaving the numbers up to the tax policy people. I'd like to have more to stand on.

Thanks for the link.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 01:40 PM

7. I don't think there are any current numbers, but

when John Conyers was proposing HR 676 (which got shot down) this is what he had to say under FAQ.

http://www.johnconyers.com/healthcare

How will the universal program be paid for?
First, switching to a single-payer system will lead to billions of dollars saved in reduced administrative costs. Those savings will be passed on through the system and allow coverage for all Americans. Additional savings in the overall cost of health care will come from annual reimbursement rate negotiations with physicians and negotiated prices for prescription drugs, medical supplies and equipment.

Second, a "Medicare For All Trust Fund" will be created to ensure a dedicated source of funding in addition to annual appropriations. Sources of funding will include:

• Maintain current federal and state funding for existing health care programs
• Closing corporate tax loopholes
• Repealing the Bush tax cuts for the highest income earners
• Establish employer/employee payroll tax of 4.75% (includes present 1.45% Medicare tax)
• Establish a 5% health tax on the top 5% of income earners; a 10% tax on top 1% of wage earners
• One quarter of one percent stock transaction tax

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Response to Cleita (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 11:11 PM

9. Thanks, very interesting. n/t

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:29 AM

10. Comparing...

Last edited Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Overhead for Canada's universal single payer health care system is 1.3% to cover everyone with no ($ ZERO - no deductible, no copay) in out of pocket costs for any physician (GP or specialist) or hospital services (about $3800 per capita per year total cost). Overhead for even US Medicare is over double than, at around 3%. US Insurance-run health care, by comparison, has overhead of only 20% to 25% because of the affordable Care Act, but without the ACA, overhead by US insurance companies PLUS increased overhead charged by physicians to hire the extra staff needed by insurance-run health care (but not needed for single payer) PLUS increased overhead charged by hospital to hire the extra staff needed by insurance-run health care (but not needed for single payer) is about 55% of what you pay in the United States (about $7900 per capita per year total cost) .

As an example, comparing a Canadian hospital (all are non profit) and a similar sized American hospital (many are for profit) similar in every other way, the American hospital needs 40 to 60 accounts receivable staff to coerce American insurance companies to pay, while the American insurance companies pay as little and as slowly as possible. The similar Canadian hospital needs no more than 3 accounts receivable staff to deal with the single payer, the federal and provincial government (the province pays initially and the federal government reimburses the provincial government for the federal share), which pays without denial or delay within 14 days.

The Canadian universal single payer health care system pays for all physician visits for GPs or any specialist the GP refers you to as well as treatment in physician's offices (vaccinations and other treatments usually done in a physician's office), and any tests, medically necessary non experimental treatment, surgery (as determined by your physician, not the government) in clinics or hospitals. Almost universally employers cover vision care, dental care, and those prescription drugs which are not otherwise covered by a government plan (costing around $100 to $120 a month per employee as a non monetary, non copay benefit). All provinces have a Pharmacare (government funded drug plan) for Seniors ($375 deductible per year), and Manitoba and Nova Scotia have a Pharmacare program for everyone without an employee drug plan (deductible of 3% of taxable income per year for non Seniors per family - the average tax deduction in Canada is $20,000, so someone who makes $60,000 a year has about $40,000 of taxable income) .

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Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 01:41 AM

4. The Washington Health Security Trust (state single payer)

--has done the math on what health care could cost. $100-$150/month for adults aged 18-64 and $50-$100/month for Medicare enrollees, plus a 1%-1.2% payroll tax on payrolls <$500K/year and a 10%-12% payroll tax on olls >$500K/year would cover what we now spend on care. The business charges are far less than what businesses are paying now, and so are the charges to individuals.

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Response to eridani (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 01:17 PM

5. Got site, read proposal...having trouble finding numbers.

Have you the link to the numbers you quote? Thanks.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 05:40 PM

8. You'd have to read the UW Fox-Conrad report

PM me with your email, and I'll send it, along with a slide show covering the salient points.

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