HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Activism » Propaganda Debunking (Group) » Stop calling it "The...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 06:58 PM

Stop calling it "The Free Market" because that's Right Wing spin

"Freedom" sounds good, doesn't it? Saying you are into "freedom" makes you sound good too.

The "Free Markets" sounds like a good thing too.

But ask yourself, what EXACTLY is the "Free Market" free of?

Regulations, or in other words - LAWS.

From now on, when someone says they support "The Free Market" correct them by saying they support "A Lawless Market".

Suddenly, they don't sound like such a "good guy" anymore. You've taken away their time tested, focus group talking point and white cowboy hat and made them the bad guy.

I hope this idea spreads far and wide.

26 replies, 3733 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply Stop calling it "The Free Market" because that's Right Wing spin (Original post)
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 OP
veganlush Jun 2012 #1
immoderate Jun 2012 #2
egbertowillies Jun 2012 #10
progree Jun 2012 #11
Curmudgeoness Jun 2012 #3
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #6
ArcticFox Jun 2012 #4
progree Jun 2012 #9
Mc Mike Oct 2012 #19
NaturalCommunist Jun 2013 #22
Gman Jun 2012 #5
Curmudgeoness Jun 2012 #7
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #8
CleanLucre Jun 2012 #12
Curmudgeoness Jun 2012 #13
CleanLucre Jun 2012 #14
majia12a Jun 2012 #15
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #16
TeamPooka Jul 2012 #17
Craig_Langford Jul 2012 #18
TOC Oct 2012 #20
zeemike Mar 2013 #21
libodem Jun 2013 #23
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #24
Bill USA Oct 2013 #25
Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #26

Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:05 PM

1. right, it would be like a football game

without referees. Imagine how that would go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:11 PM

2. Good approach. The "free market" is a model, that doesn't exist in reality.

Even if a market is not run by an authority, it is never "free." Some party will have an advantage, or somehaw unfairly control the transaction.

"Free market" refers to how lines behave on a paper in an economics class.

Whenever my conservative friends talk about the free market, I challenge them to identify it or even describe how it might be set up. It can't be done.

--imm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to immoderate (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:03 AM

10. I much prefer

free enterprise. You are to free to do a business as you please within the constructs of your laws.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to egbertowillies (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:34 PM

11. Free enterprise: a rightie term just like free markets -- freedom from law and regulation,

Last edited Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:31 PM - Edit history (1)



Great website by the way

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:15 PM

3. Excellent catch.

There are so many terms that are used by the Repugs because they make something sound good when it isn't. This is their specialty and we have to start taking a page from their playbook.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 08:58 PM

6. I'd love it if this landed on the home page.

Who knows? It could spread to TV pundits who lurk DU.

It could even end up being repeated on a Sunday talk show.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:49 PM

4. Or "market anarchy"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ArcticFox (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 04:01 PM

9. Good one. Or, to rearrange: The Anarchic Market (almost rhymes), nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to progree (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 09:59 AM

19. Good band names. It's a framing issue, where

using descriptors 'Lawless' and 'Anarchy' points out the reality that the 1% is actually ape-ing the characteristics of their caricacture of the 99%. 'They break laws, they destroy things, they'll take your stuff, they're a threat.' The O.P. gives a true version of a false Luntz word spin.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ArcticFox (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 15, 2013, 01:54 PM

22. We have market anarchy now

The only thing free is the CEO's that should be in jail.

It's probably time to nationalize big oil so the people can see there is more to life than big profits.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:57 PM

5. I first heard the term in the early 70's in college

Macroeconomics. The term is discussed in Adam Smith's "Wealth Of Nations", first published in 1776, but it's probably much older than that. It's an old term that was co-opted by the right. The thing to do is not to discourage its use but to define it for what it really is and how bad total laissez faire economics can be. There is no "invisible hand".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gman (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:51 PM

7. I don't agree.

The majority of people's eyes will glaze over if you try to explain the details of the "free market" or macroeconomics or laissez faire economics. We have to start doing the same thing that is working for the Reps by using simple phrases that are easy to picture.

I hate to say that most people are simple, but the sooner we understand that, the sooner we may find success in this word game. We have tried for too long to educate the public. I say we need to start redefining phrases.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:10 PM

8. Bingo. My thinking exactly.

The public already dislikes "deregulation" and "free trade" which they link to outsourcing jobs but still likes the idea of "free markets" but if it's exposed what that actually means they will realize that's something to dislike as well.

Not to mention "Free Markets" is at the core of Republican philosophy.

If this one falls it will cascade through many of their others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 25, 2012, 11:22 AM

12. why help Republican liars

 

dumb down the public? "I say we need to start redefining phrases." I say we fight for public education and an "informed public." Doesn't mean we have to make "their eyes glaze over" OR learn to LIE as well as Repukes do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CleanLucre (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 25, 2012, 08:33 PM

13. Every reasoning molecule of me agrees with you, but

I have watched this for too many years. Quality public education is important, and will lead to an informed public. But let's face it, the entire country will not be full of intellectuals no matter how much we try. I don't think that we have to be helping the Republicans or lie like they do. But I have to admit that they are masters of controlling people with words. Example: We wanted "Medicare for all" which everyone would understand. But we were unable to get that phrase in use for the health care reforms. Instead, we get "death panels" and "Obamacare" for a plan that was too watered down----and you bet that everyone knows those terms, even if they don't know what they are talking about.

I wish that we could reason with people, but that is just not working. We can continue to take the high road and try to get people to listen to us with intellectual discussion as we have done in the past, or we can fight fire with fire. I'm lighting a torch.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 25, 2012, 08:59 PM

14. Points well made but don't overlook

 

the reason we can't "get people to listen to us" or "get that phrase in use" is not about framing, it's about media control.

Also, who are you trying to reach. The stupider and more pointless communication becomes, more of the informed voters tune out, give up on messaging that isn't speaking to them at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Sat Jun 30, 2012, 10:13 PM

15. Polanyi's the Great Transformation

I always heard from my conservative friends phrases like "prove your worth in the free market" as if talent, intellect, character can be tested out like lines and equations drawn out on a piece of paper. In college I remember reading Polanyi's book on debunking the self-regulation that free marketers held dearly, making the "lawless market" even more appalling in the face of logic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to majia12a (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 30, 2012, 10:27 PM

16. I hope the phrase catches on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 07:47 PM

17. great point

I will never use the FM term again
Lawless4ever!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Thu Jul 5, 2012, 09:03 AM

18. Good point

 

"The free market" and "free enterprise" are words that I will never use. We should avoid right-wing doublespeak at all costs because it is ultimately misleading. Once you dig deep enough you figure out the truth.

Right-wing freedom is the freedom to rob, steal, and loot from everyone else and get away with it. It is freedom from morality and conscience. Real freedom is progressive even if it means that members of society have to compromise with each other.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 10:04 AM

20. good point

That's a good point, I'll start saying lawless market now I do like most aspects of lawless markets

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:43 AM

21. You said it well.

Focus group talking pints...take that away from them and they are exposed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2013, 04:16 PM

23. We need FAIR market practices

Free means roughshod more than supply and demand, anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to libodem (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 19, 2013, 08:14 PM

24. It means changing the laws....

There's too much legal fiction.

For instance: Saying a company has "gone public" means it is now in the hands of a greedy few who are using it to make themselves richer. Damn the owner, the employees and even the customers. IOW: THE PUBLIC. The goal BY LAW is to see to it the investors get their money even if the company or the entire PLANET has a bad quarter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Original post)

Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:11 PM

25. even with good intentions of enforcing real competition, the huge players in any market have a lot

power and can force out small competitors long before Government wathdogs can get around to doing anything about it. NOt because they are incompetent. It just takes so long to build a case and go to court with it. Long before that can happen the small fries are crushed or bought out.

GOPers propaganda talks a lot about entrepreneurship, but with the large corporations it's very hard for a small operator to really succeed big with a good idea. If he has a good idea he will be bought out ( the corporation will tell him: "Well, maybe you don't think were offering enough for your idea/product, but if you don't accept it, we have engineers who can come up with a knock off of your product and before you can bring a case to court you will have been put out of business a decade earlier.

Freee market, HA!

Good post!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bill USA (Reply #25)

Mon Oct 7, 2013, 09:27 PM

26. The huge players also get deals on materials the little guy can't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread