Always have believed in the concept of a forever home for animals

[Liberalynn]

and I have never taken back or given away a dog that I brought into my home. For the first time in my life though I am actually wondering whether I will have to break my promise. Marnie is different not just from Maxie but any other Shepherd that I have ever owned.

We took her to pre K puppy classes twice. They couldn't keep her attention, she disrupted their class, she literally climbed the walls, she was afraid of the other puppies. They wanted to isolate her for the third session from the other puppies to see if they could teach her the lessons but we decided it wasn't going to work. The whole reason we were there was to get her socialized. What good is letting her hide in the corner behind a gate going to do?

Someone mentioned to us a trainer who specializes in German Shepherds and who has trained police dogs.We asked her to come evaluate Marnie. She said Marnie is not an inbred aggressive dog, but she is a dominant, highly smart dog and I am going to have to spend a lot of time trying to outsmart her.

The thing is she bites constantly. I've been the tree. Standing still. She backs off for about a minute and comes back and bites again. I've done the time out where I leave. The minute I return she starts biting again. I'm sitting in a chair she comes and bites my legs. We are walking she bites my legs.

I understand prey drive and herding instincts as I said I have had Shepherds since I was five. The fact that she's doing it to myself and my sister when she sees her, while we're sitting or standing still is another matter all together.

The trainer evaluator said she can get her to stop biting me but this will in her words never be a dog that I can pet. She said I will have to be contented with having her lay by me when I read or watch T.V. She said Shepherds aren't that kind of dog that wants to be lovely dovey and that this one definitely isn't. Yet all four of my other ones loved being petted and though they play bit they got a clue fairly quickly that wasn't acceptable.

I want a dog that I can interact with. Not one I am going to have to learn to have to keep a distance from or be on guard with all the time. I care about the dog and want the best for her but the bond isn't forming.

But how do I break the promise? I would never give her to the shelter but I am seriously considering asking the trainer if she could find someone place to re-home her. I feel guilty and like a horrible person but what do you do when you know it's not the right situation for you or the dog. I want to make the decision now before she leaves puppy good because I know it's header for older larger dogs to be re-homed!

Do I hang in there and keep trying or try to find her a better match? I need some advice. As I said I have never faced this situation before

[LiberalEsto]

1. Is there any chance that she could have a dental problem?

Or some kind of food allergy?

Food allergies are not uncommon, and they can manifest in different ways. One of our dogs turned out to be extremely allergic to the corn in his dog food. It gave him no-stop diarrhea. He ruined all the carpet in my daughter's apartment before we figured out what was wrong with him.

I'm wondering whether the biting could be an attempt on her part to bring some kind of physical problem to your attention.

[Liberalynn]

4. The vet checked her teeth yesterday.

He didn't see anything wrong. He said she is a very healthy puppy. He wants me to take her to a behavioral specialist at Cornell University but I'm guessing that costs major bucks that I don't have. He says he does not believe in the theory that the dog is trying to show her dominance like the trainer. He says that's old school and there has to be a psychological reason why she is biting.

[Arugula Latte]

2. I don't know that much about dogs

(the kitties are my area of expertise), but I'm wondering ... Do people still use Shepherds to herd animals? I know that Australian whatchamacallits (Heelers?) are used and also Border Collies, but I don't ever see photos of German Shepherds herding sheep. But if she's smart and wants to herd I wonder if she can be trained to do that job on a working ranch.

Good luck; I feel for you.

[Liberalynn]

6. I think people do still use dogs to herd sheep and cattle.

She does seem to enjoy the outdoors a lot.

[sammytko]

3. Water bottle!

I have 8 dogs. All rescue. Just got three pups, 6 months and almost one year.

The older dogs were set in their ways and had issues. I let them do whatever. One was a constant barker. It was okay when he was the only one doing it, but the three new ones picked it up.

Someone told me to squirt them lightly with water. After just three days it is working. They don't even bark when my other half leaves for the day. They are sleeping here with me, so I don't think they hate me. They are so much better behaved. The 6 month olds now come in when called.

I think this would work with your biter. Mine didn't like chew toys but loved pig ears, and they are entertained with those for a long time. Made in USA only piggie ears!

Good luck.

[Liberalynn]

8. Thank You.

That is great that you rescued your doggies and our giving them a loving home. I will try the water bottle.

[LynneSin]

5. If she's a smart dog german shepard there may be another option

First suggestion is just learn to love her the way she is. My Evita, who is just an adopted stray cat, never was the friendly adoring cat like Abbott was. But in the end we learned to live with each other and I tolerate her craziness. She'll never been that warm loving cat that I can snuggle with but in the end she is a wonderful pet in her own way.

However, if this doesn't seem like an option to you then perhaps what might be best for her is a chance at a career dog. If she is as highly intelligent as the trainer says she is, she might be the perfect candidate for a police or service dog. It would mean having to give your dog away but perhaps an environment like that might be one she would prefer.

[Liberalynn]

9. Thank You!

I have had her since February eighth and I think she seems to get bored and frustrated with that boredom. I think that's what is causing the biting. She just doesn't know what to do with herself and is not interested in any of the options I am providing.The other dogs I could always satisfy with a long walk or a game of fetch with the ball but Marnie looses interest within minutes and you can literally see her looking for something else to play with or to do and when she can't find it she bites. Maybe she does need the challenge of being an actual working dog.

[TBF]

19. I like this response -

the guy who trained my purebred lab (highstrung dog - my rescues have been much calmer) also trains police dogs. We've kept him because he's lovey dovey and wants to be in the house, but he's also very smart and could've been put into service with his need to please. He eats up training and wants to show everyone his tricks. He also eats cds, cords, etc - if he's bored he makes his own fun so I have to keep him busy.

Also rehoming could be an option. I did it with a great dane puppy that a friend gave us. My youngest human child was 2 at the time & it just wasn't a good fit. They were at eye level and (my) baby would not stay out of the crate which was supposed to be the puppy's area. So, I ended up giving her to a volunteer at a local no-kill rescue who owned other danes and was thrilled with a free puppy.

Just don't give it to the local shelter - do the extra calls and try to find the right place/person for her.

[Liberalynn]

22. Thank You

I called a local GSD rescue. They are going to take custody of Marnie Saturday. I had a second call from them, this time from their President. I told her the steps I've taken so far. She said it is so hard to believe such a young one is causing so much fuss that an experienced dog/shepherd owner can't handle her even with professional guidance. She's going to foster Marnie herself and work on her issues before finding her a new home. They have a no kill policy in place. So I feel this will be good for Marnie.

[TBF]

26. That sounds perfect -

she will work with her and/or find the right placement.

The lab group I got two dogs from locally here in Houston actually had "Gabe" at one time years ago. I'm not sure at what point he ended up in the military but he was a terrific "soldier" dog and won a hero dog award a couple of years ago: http://www.herodogawards.org/2012-finalists/gabe/. Sadly he passed away from cancer last February but not before he met Betty White!

[magical thyme]

7. you have no reason to feel guilty if find a better-fit home for Marnie

It is better to find a home where her person will feel comfortable and safe with her, and where she will feel comfortable and safe, then to give her a lifetime of "not fitting in."

You have to consider your own needs as well as Marnie's. Obviously, this isn't just a week or two of putting up with or working around issues. This is a lifetime for Marnie and a big chunk of a lifetime for you.

I would have her checked out physically to be sure there isn't a tooth or allergies or other problem behind the biting and fear (or anxiety?) issues. I'd consult with a couple different trainers to get their opinions, or find another puppy class and see if they handle things differently.

But you are smart to think of and to start looking for a new home now, while she is still more adoptable in her puppyhood. She may be exactly the dog some other experienced person is looking for, and then you can let her go confident that you are doing what is best for her and for you.

[Liberalynn]

10. Thank You!

The vet did check her out yesterday and he said she's healthy. He suggested taking her to Cornell University to consult with a degree animal behaviorist because of her biting. I am guessing that costs major bucks which I don't have.

I am considering asking the German Shepherd trainer if she knows anyone who would be interested in giving Marnie a new home.

[magical thyme]

11. remember, it costs nothing to ask...

and if the trainer does come up with somebody, you can either change your mind or meet them and decide whether you approve or not, as well as see how they interact with Marnie.

I can see where Cornell would likely be very expensive.

Wasn't Marnie also the puppy that was very difficult to housebreak? With physiological reasons ruled out, and a bit of a 'tude about it? Seems like she's a handful and a serious challenge. There's nothing that says she won't outgrow the attitude, but nothing that says that she will either.

[Liberalynn]

13. Yes

She was a challenge to potty train. Turns out it was because her crate was too big. She hasn't had hardly any accidents since. She can learn but the her focus is hard to keep.

[hamsterjill]

12. I'm curious - what is the trainer suggesting to stop the biting?

I absolutely love animals, generally more than people. But there's a line in the sand with one that bites. Too much concern and liability. Are these just little love bites, or are they enough to hurt?

And what exactly has the trainer suggested to make her stop? (Just curious more than anything.)

I like the suggestion up-post about finding her a job to do. And no, you're not a horrible person. A horrible person dumps a dog somewhere and doesn't look back. You have a situation with a dog and you're trying to find a solution. That is NOT horrible.

[Liberalynn]

14. They aren't love bites

they break skin and hurt. The vet tech agreed with us that it is not play biting but serious actual biting.

The trainer first recommended standing still and ignoring which I've tried, then time outs, then pulling up on the leash to get her into to uncomfortable a position to bite. The theory being if it's uncomfortable for her the first few times she tries it, that she will stop. She doesn't seem to be getting it though. She keeps trying to struggle to bite. I told the trainer that and she said she wants to get her in her facility to teach her the same methods she uses to cal the police dogs off. I don't know myself what that entails.

I don't want a police dog I want a home companion like my other four shepherds were. I hate the thought that I am giving up on her I just don't know what else to try and the longer I wait the fewer options there will be.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Some dogs simply have an inborn unpleasant temperament

My brother's family bought a beautiful English setter puppy from a breeder. She was also very smart, and when they took her to obedience classes, she caught on right away.

However, she had an aggressive temperament and attacked people without warning. They tried everything--a private trainer, a dog psychologist, tranquilizers, everything. Finally the vet told them that some purebred English setters simply have unstable and aggressive temperaments. The term is "setter rage."

They sadly ended up having the dog euthanized. They felt that they could not keep her and that it would not be fair to pass the problem on to some other unsuspecting family. The breeder refused to take her back, saying that his dogs had no problems and that my brother's family must have abused the dog. (My brother and his wife have kept dogs throughout their entire married life of over thirty years and had never had problems like this.)

[Liberalynn]

16. That had to be a hard decision for your brother to make but he made the right call.

IMHO. I did just email the trainer and ask if she knew anyone who would be willing and experienced enough to adopt Marnie with all her challenges. I am hoping to hear back from her soon.

I finally admitted to myself that if I am unsuccessful at handling her now what is it going to be like when she is a full grown adult.n That's not safe or fair to anyone including the dog.

I am not going back to the breeder as I suspect I would get a similar response that your brother did.

Like your brother I have had perfectly wonderful dogs in the past and have taken excellent care of them. I'm sure if I asked my vet would give me a reference but this dog is beyond my skills to manage.

Hopefully the trainer will know someone.

[Liberalynn]

17. Update

Just got off the phone with a GSD rescue recommended by the GSD trainer. They will take Marnie on Saturday. They even want me to meet a two year old friendly female to see if we click. They said I should really get an older dog between six months to two years. The man told me getting the right younger puppy is hard because it is often too hard to judge temperament so young. They were also impressed that I had contacted an expert in the breed already for help. I think that's why they offered me the chance to meet and possibly adopt one of their older rescues.

The trainer also made me feel so much better about my choice too. She told me I had already gone above and beyond what most people would have done for this dog in the short time she has been with me. She said most would have been high tailing it back to the breeder or to a shelter long before now.

It's going to be hard and sad still but I know I am making the best choice possible under the circumstances for both Marnie and I. Thanks for being my sounding board and Helping in this hard choice.

Linda

[840high]

18. Good solution.

[Liberalynn]

23. Thank You

[magical thyme]

20. thank you for the update. It seems like you did everything you could to make it work, but

she is not the right dog for you and you are not the right person for her. You are doing the kindest and most loving thing you possibly could to ensure the best for both of you.

[Liberalynn]

24. Thank You

I am feeling even more confident that the rescue president called me back after my initial discussion with her associate. She intends to foster Marnie herself. She said they will do everything in their power to help her with her issues and find someone who can control her dominant personality to adopt her. They are a no kill rescue.

[LynneSin]

21. In the end we have to do what is right by our pets

For many of us we'll do something to our pets thinking it is a way to show our love to them but our pets may not still be happy. You could have kept Marnie and forced her to live in the home but she may have never been happy. The rescue group will surely find a way to make Marnie a happy pet.

The win for you is this - while helping Marnie find happiness you too have a chance to give another pet happiness. I see that as a win-win situation.

[Liberalynn]

25. Thank You so much LynneSin

I really feel this organization will do what is best for Marnie. They have been around for eighteen years. They do a home visit pre adoption, their leader says they have picnics for their adoptee families, and they pick fosters who are experienced handlers of GSD's with issues who will work to resolve them so the dog doesn't have to be re-homed yet again.