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nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 05:34 PM Feb 2012

I don't understand why those walk-in tubs are marketed just to seniors

Whenever I see an ad on tv for those walk in tubs (even without the jets) I want one. I understand the safety selling point - eliminating falls and making it easier for those with limited mobility to use a bath tub - but honestly, they should be standard everywhere.

I want one - I always struggle to climb out of the tub and I bet our dogs would be more receptive to getting a bat in one of those (plus harder for them to jump out)


26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I don't understand why those walk-in tubs are marketed just to seniors (Original Post) nadine_mn Feb 2012 OP
Maybe they are prone to leak? siligut Feb 2012 #1
so are many seniors Bruce Wayne Feb 2012 #7
Bwah! nt valerief Feb 2012 #8
So bad siligut Feb 2012 #11
I just can't see getting into one of those, closing the door and then have to sit there and Purveyor Feb 2012 #2
And have to sit and wait for it to empty! siligut Feb 2012 #3
Right and by then the water is tepid and one would want to get the hell out without the wait. Purveyor Feb 2012 #4
Well, I guess you answered nadine's question. siligut Feb 2012 #5
I noticed the commercials tout "fast drain" marzipanni Feb 2012 #16
Ive never noticed it quakerboy Feb 2012 #19
They take forever to drain. So you have to sit there getting cold until all the water is gone applegrove Feb 2012 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Feb 2012 #9
Bah - I keep forgetting that very practical reason nadine_mn Feb 2012 #13
They're pricey. They're inconvenient. Little kids can drown in them. Moondog Feb 2012 #10
how do kids drown more or less easily based on whether the side opens or not? dmallind Feb 2012 #25
They're deeper, as much as 3-4' versus ~18" on a normal tub. Chan790 Feb 2012 #26
I've heard they've rather popular with brothels and sex-clubs... Chan790 Feb 2012 #12
Sigh - between the forever to drain, drowning little kids and now seedy sex nadine_mn Feb 2012 #14
If you want one, don't let the creepiness of other people dissuade you. Chan790 Feb 2012 #15
Yeah, and if you want to have seedy sex nolabear Feb 2012 #17
I think they are Medicare scams just like the power chairs and scooters csziggy Feb 2012 #18
Scooters are scams? JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2012 #20
See my post below csziggy Feb 2012 #23
Power chairs aren't scams. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2012 #21
The way they are sold on TV is a scam csziggy Feb 2012 #22
I have no doubt that there are shady operators. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2012 #24

siligut

(12,272 posts)
1. Maybe they are prone to leak?
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 06:02 PM
Feb 2012

I agree about the convenience, so the only reason they aren't standard may be because the seal gets old and has to be replaced or they leak.

 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
2. I just can't see getting into one of those, closing the door and then have to sit there and
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 06:06 PM
Feb 2012

wait for the thing to fill with water.

siligut

(12,272 posts)
5. Well, I guess you answered nadine's question.
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 06:31 PM
Feb 2012

If you don't absolutely need one, they are just a pain-in-the-ass

marzipanni

(6,011 posts)
16. I noticed the commercials tout "fast drain"
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 10:59 PM
Feb 2012

Some, anyway, have two drains and a pump to get rid of the water faster... and safety (anti) suction so you don't get stuck to the drain!

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
19. Ive never noticed it
Sat Feb 18, 2012, 05:27 PM
Feb 2012

being so slow as to be a problem for the people using them. Granted those people had an aid who used the filling time to use the sprayer and wash their back or hair or whathave you that stay up out of the water.

I never noticed draining to be an issue either. My memory has them draining fairly quickly, not any slower than my current tub. Though our drains are a bit slow here, anyway.

applegrove

(118,622 posts)
6. They take forever to drain. So you have to sit there getting cold until all the water is gone
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 06:37 PM
Feb 2012

apparently. You can't open the door until all the water has drained away. And how does two drain holes help speed things up if you still only have one pipe?

Response to applegrove (Reply #6)

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
26. They're deeper, as much as 3-4' versus ~18" on a normal tub.
Sat Feb 18, 2012, 11:38 PM
Feb 2012

A full-grown adult would have issues climbing out over the sides which can be as tall as 4' (there's a bench-seat inside at normal seating height), a small child likely would have no chance.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
12. I've heard they've rather popular with brothels and sex-clubs...
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 07:43 PM
Feb 2012

not really my thing but I still hear about it from time to time as I have friends in the sex-work industry. They modify them to drain faster, time-is-money.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
14. Sigh - between the forever to drain, drowning little kids and now seedy sex
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 09:30 PM
Feb 2012

I am starting to feel silly even posting my desire for one

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
15. If you want one, don't let the creepiness of other people dissuade you.
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 10:24 PM
Feb 2012

I mean it's your bathtub to use as you see fit, don't sweat what other people do with it. If you have kids, watch them around it...nobody leaves children unattended in the bathtub anyways; we've all heard too many horror stories. And clearly they can be modified to drain faster, just ask your plumber how.

Never feel silly about what you want in life. You're the one who has to live it.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
18. I think they are Medicare scams just like the power chairs and scooters
Sat Feb 18, 2012, 01:39 AM
Feb 2012

If they can classify them as medical devices, Medicare and insurance will pay for them.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,681 posts)
21. Power chairs aren't scams.
Sat Feb 18, 2012, 06:37 PM
Feb 2012

My dad would have been totally stuck in his apartment at the old folks' home if he hadn't had one. He wouldn't even have been able to get meals in the dining room without it. That thing preserved his mobility and kept him healthier for many months. In many cases, like my dad's, they are appropriately classified as medical devices and should be covered by Medicare or insurance for those who can't otherwise afford them (they aren't cheap).

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
22. The way they are sold on TV is a scam
Sat Feb 18, 2012, 10:56 PM
Feb 2012

In my opinion. The companies that push them and guarantee that they can get them for people with no out of pocket cost or they will give the chairs for free have got to be pretty sure they've got the Medicare and insurance racket down pat to make that claim.

I'm glad your father got his chair. Since I am currently (and hopefully temporarily) mobility impaired, I understand the limitation of not being able to get around.

Since I should be able to be more mobile once I get knee replacement (I see the surgeon on Monday to find out how soon) I don't qualify for a free scooter or chair, but currently I can't walk far enough to go grocery shopping. Last fall when I was planning to go to a seminar, I had reserved a scooter to lease for the week, but then found a used one on Craig's List for just over the lease price.

The guy who was selling the scooter used insurance to get it and paid nothing. He was selling it since he had just gotten on Medicare and they offered to upgrade him to a power chair. He was more mobile than I am - I couldn't keep up with him.

But there is more than just that one anecdote:

Justice Department lawsuit alleges Scooter Store defrauded Medicare
San Antonio Business Journal
Date: Friday, April 29, 2005
The U.S. Justice Department on Friday filed a lawsuit against The Scooter Store Inc. alleging the power-wheelchair distributor bilked Medicare.

The lawsuit claims The Scooter Store engaged in a nationwide practice of making misrepresentations to Medicare beneficiaries and their doctors about obtaining reimbursements from the government for power wheelchairs as opposed to less expensive scooters.

Specifically, lawyers for the government say the company was involved in a mass marketing campaign to sell equipment to Medicare patients. Attorneys say that once potential customers called the company's toll-free number, employees falsely told patients that Medicare would only pay for a more expensive power wheelchair.

As a result, Justice Department officials claim Medicare and Medicaid paid more for more expensive equipment than customers needed. Government attorneys do not have an exact dollar amount the government paid for fraudulent reimbursements. However, The Scooter Store has billed Medicare for claims worth more than $400 million since 1997, according to the lawsuit.

The Justice Department filed the lawsuit in federal court in San Antonio under the False Claims Act.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/04/25/daily39.html


Feds derail power-chair-scooter scam
Buyers got pricey model that insurance paid for

The Columbus Dispatch Monday March 2, 2009 5:51 AM

<SNIP>
Airing in central Ohio from 2002 to 2005, the ad DiBerardino and thousands of others answered touted the "power chair scooter," a term coined by Worthington businessman Michael Ross Cowen. The phrase describes a hybrid of two types of mobility chairs, a light and portable "scooter," and a "power chair" designed for in-home use.

The wording was intended to confuse customers into thinking they were getting a lightweight model and doctors into prescribing the larger, heavier power chairs, according to state and federal investigators.

Cowen, 51, made millions of dollars selling heavy chairs designed for people who are severely disabled to people who thought they were buying lighter chairs designed to help them get around. Last week, he pleaded guilty to two of 34 criminal charges in a Virginia courtroom. The former New Albany resident could face up to 15 years in prison when sentenced in April.

His Worthington company, Active Solutions, sought out the elderly and disabled, people such as DiBerardino, promising them that Medicare and Medicaid insurance would cover the chair's cost.
Airing in central Ohio from 2002 to 2005, the ad DiBerardino and thousands of others answered touted the "power chair scooter," a term coined by Worthington businessman Michael Ross Cowen. The phrase describes a hybrid of two types of mobility chairs, a light and portable "scooter," and a "power chair" designed for in-home use.

The wording was intended to confuse customers into thinking they were getting a lightweight model and doctors into prescribing the larger, heavier power chairs, according to state and federal investigators.

Cowen, 51, made millions of dollars selling heavy chairs designed for people who are severely disabled to people who thought they were buying lighter chairs designed to help them get around. Last week, he pleaded guilty to two of 34 criminal charges in a Virginia courtroom. The former New Albany resident could face up to 15 years in prison when sentenced in April.

His Worthington company, Active Solutions, sought out the elderly and disabled, people such as DiBerardino, promising them that Medicare and Medicaid insurance would cover the chair's cost.
<SNIP>
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2009/03/02/wheelman.ART_ART_03-02-09_B1_UGD356P.html


Feds, Medicare crack down on medical scooter fraud
By Kelly Kennedy, USA TODAY

Posted 7/12/2011 7:27:53 PM |

WASHINGTON — The federal government is cracking down on medical-equipment providers who either overcharge Medicare for motorized wheelchairs or obtain them for people who don't need them, Medicare and Justice Department records show.

Medicare plans to almost triple the number of anti-fraud strike forces it operates nationwide, from seven to 20, U.S. Health and Human Services Department budget documents show.

So far this year, Justice has won the convictions of 16 people throughout the country who have defrauded Medicare for $57 million, records show. Another six people are being prosecuted now for running what federal prosecutors say is a nationwide ring that has bilked the government of at least $30 million.

Records from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services show the cost of motorized wheelchairs to the government health service for senior citizens has risen from $259 million to $723 million, or 179%, from 1999 to 2009, the last year for which full records are available.

Advertisements for the wheelchairs, also called scooters, have exploded nationwide in recent years, as companies tout the improved mobility they provide and how Medicare, not the patients, will pay for the chairs.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2011-07-12-wheelchair-medicare-fraud_n.htm


For those who really need a mobility device, Medicare has good advice:
Medicare's Wheelchair and Scooter Benefit
http://www.medicare.gov/publications/pubs/pdf/11046.pdf

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,681 posts)
24. I have no doubt that there are shady operators.
Sat Feb 18, 2012, 11:05 PM
Feb 2012

But the chairs themselves are legitimate medical devices under the appropriate circumstances. It's unfortunate that Medicare is being abused (again).

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