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FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 05:38 PM Jan 2012

How much more can we do? (Mostly just a rant.)

Yes, I live a comfortable retired teacher's life. My husband and I both worked hard and managed our money the best we could...going from him having to work two jobs when he was in the Navy and I was staying home with our infant who needed constant medical attention to both of us working good jobs and reaching 65, retiring, and wanting to spend what time we have left enjoying life. Our health is relatively good so far and though we don't actually live together, we get along; so life should be ok for right now.

However, our grown daughter has fallen on hard times due to the type of self-owned business she's in and now we find ourselves trying to support her and her three children. She and her husband have separated and he makes less money than she does so there's no help there.

She received the foreclosure notice on her house last month. Apparently she hasn't been making her payments for quite some time. (She can't afford the mortgage, or the upkeep, or or the utilities. It's simply a case of trying to live better than she can afford, i.e. big house, etc.)

My husband and I are making her $550 a month car payment (so high because the interest is something like 18 or 19%. It's an upside down loan now). We pay $150 every month for the 3 kids' school lunches, $250 each month for braces, a couple of hundred a month for incidentals like food, and we're paying for cable bundle so she can use the internet in her almost defunct business. And that's just the stuff I can remember right now. (Whenever the grandkids need something extra, we always come through for them and always will. It's what grandparents do.)

She doesn't want to move out of her neighborhood because it's a nice place to live.
She doesn't want to give up her car because it's a nice SUV (gas guzzler).
She doesn't want to give up trying to make her business work because she gets to be her own boss and work from home.
She doesn't want her husband to live with her because she hates him even though it would help financially.

Now to my point...if there is one.

I'm beginning to resent all this because we're draining our savings and there's not going to be any way to recoup the money. These aren't loans we're giving her. It's outright free money.

I feel so badly for her but I know that part of the problem is that we raised a very selfish and self-centered daughter. I love her dearly, but she tends to make bad choices and is reluctant to actually try to find solutions to her problems. She's always sort of stuck her head in the sand and ignored the obvious and now she can't seem to find a strong footing.

No, I know this isn't as bad as some people have it. Things could be so much worse...but it's still a reality that I'd like to change. Again, my question...how much more can we do? Or maybe the question should be how much more should we do?

Probably just rhetorical questions...I really don't think there's a good answer. *sigh*

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How much more can we do? (Mostly just a rant.) (Original Post) FLyellowdog Jan 2012 OP
I have no answer for you as I have almost the same problem. RebelOne Jan 2012 #1
So sorry. FLyellowdog Jan 2012 #2
I think it's time for an ultimatum. trof Jan 2012 #3
My mind agrees with you FLyellowdog Jan 2012 #6
I know. It's hard to 'deny' our children. trof Jan 2012 #14
Wow. RiffRandell Jan 2012 #4
My husband is calling our credit union tomorrow FLyellowdog Jan 2012 #8
This is easy for me to say, but I think it's time for some tough love Arugula Latte Jan 2012 #5
I know, I know. FLyellowdog Jan 2012 #9
Went through something similar with my son. We finally told him we were done paying his madmom Jan 2012 #7
You did the right thing for sure. FLyellowdog Jan 2012 #10
Counseling and a plan is all I can suggest... Phentex Jan 2012 #11
Thank you. FLyellowdog Jan 2012 #15
oh, what we do for our kids... handmade34 Jan 2012 #12
Thanks for the straight talk. FLyellowdog Jan 2012 #16
jebus Kali Jan 2012 #13
Had to laugh after reading your last line. FLyellowdog Jan 2012 #17

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
1. I have no answer for you as I have almost the same problem.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 05:56 PM
Jan 2012

I have had to loan my two adult children money (not that I expect them to repay it). My son was laid off work and his wife needed money to get her nursing certification, and he needed money to take a course in Web site creation for his dog breeding business. And my daughter in Florida is teaching middle school and is going back to school for her master's degree. She recently separated from her husband and is on her own. Her teaching salary just covers the necessities. Since she was lucky enough to get a grant, it does not cover the cost of her books, so I had to loan her the money for them.

They know that I am living on social security, but they seem to think I am a money machine.

FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
2. So sorry.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:00 PM
Jan 2012

You hit the nail on the head. They think we're money machines.

It's always something. Good luck.

trof

(54,256 posts)
3. I think it's time for an ultimatum.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:30 PM
Jan 2012

And as the father of an only daughter, I know how hard that is.
You can't control her decisions, but you do control the purse strings.
Appeal to HER responsibilities to the kids.
Sounds like the house is gone.
The SUV needs to go too.
Bankruptcy may be her only option right now.
It's not the worse thing in the world and people do work their way back out of it over time.

By continuing to support her, you may be driving 6 people into poverty.
Making a comparison to the Cocordia shipwreck, if the lifeboat (you and your husband) sinks,
ALL is lost.

Good luck.
That's a tough one.

FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
6. My mind agrees with you
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:40 PM
Jan 2012

but my heart breaks at the thought.

Yes, I also think bankruptcy might be the way she's headed and she surely needs to own that by herself.

Thanks for your thoughts.

trof

(54,256 posts)
14. I know. It's hard to 'deny' our children.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 09:01 PM
Jan 2012

Heartrending.
Miz t. and I are so fortunate.
We have a very close relationship with our daughter, who really has her head on straight.
She's married to a very successful attorney who literally worships the ground she walks on.
And he's truly like our son.
We have two beautiful grandchildren.
Not 'perfect' (whose are?), but pretty neat anyway.
At our stage in life, retired like you, she does more for us than we do for her when it comes to laying out bucks.

Took me a while to accept that, but I finally decided to relax and enjoy it.
What the hell. Why not?

I'm not telling this to rub it in.
It could very easily have gone the other way and I might have found myself in the same predicament you're in.
When they were starting out we loaned them money.
For their wedding present we were able to cancel the debt.
They've never let us forget that.

"Dad, you and mom were there when we really needed you. The things we can do now for you are just payback"

Damn I love that girl.

Again, I wish you the best.
trof

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
4. Wow.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:30 PM
Jan 2012

The interest rate on the car is insane. Has she looked into refinancing it? I'm sorry you are in this position.

FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
8. My husband is calling our credit union tomorrow
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:43 PM
Jan 2012

to see if there's anything ELSE we can do to help. My thoughts were to trade the car in (yes, I"ll have to pay the difference on the underwater loan) and get something with lower payments and better gas mileage. I'd have to use savings to pay off that difference but if I'm still paying the car payment, a smaller one would help. Six of one, half a dozen of another.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
5. This is easy for me to say, but I think it's time for some tough love
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:37 PM
Jan 2012

Level with her and tell her you can't afford to keep this up because you are endangering your own future. She needs to make some changes (cheaper rent, cheaper car) and if she chooses not to, well, good luck with that, but you'll no longer chip in.

FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
9. I know, I know.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:46 PM
Jan 2012

But when there are grandchildren involved, that's easier said than done. Our son (who has never asked for our help although he's had tough times as well) says what you said.

We have at least told her that the house has to go....we will not try to save it for her. We just can't do it.

madmom

(9,681 posts)
7. Went through something similar with my son. We finally told him we were done paying his
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:41 PM
Jan 2012

bills while his wife sat on her butt and watched TV. They have 3 daughters, all in school. They got mad, stopped talking to us and moved back to the town her parents live in. Her parents refused to help them. On Thanksgiving weekend we got a call from son and he said he knows he f*cked up. I told him I'm glad he realizes that but we still aren't paying his bills. Shortly after we learn his wife got a job. Things aren't back as good as they were but at least I'm able to communicate with my grand-daughters again and that, to me, is the most important thing.

FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
10. You did the right thing for sure.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:48 PM
Jan 2012

I'll take some strength from your experience and maybe I'll be able to do something similar.

I'm so glad you're able to stay in touch with the grand-daughters. You're right...that's the most important thing.

Phentex

(16,330 posts)
11. Counseling and a plan is all I can suggest...
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:57 PM
Jan 2012

I have a friend going through this right now and I fear she is going to lose a lot because she is sticking her head in the sand, too. I have given her advice but she needs real counseling (both credit and otherwise).

I know you feel obligated but I always wonder what people would do if their parents were gone. I never had anybody to fall back on and I struggled in a way I would not wish on anyone. But when you have no one but yourself, you find a way. So I get very frustrated when I see people who ARE being helped just waste it.

The financial advisors would NOT recommend you losing everything as well. I'm very sorry for your situation and I know it's hard but your daughter needs more than just money right now.



FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
15. Thank you.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 11:54 PM
Jan 2012

I've suggested counseling at least once and maybe need to suggest it again.

Our parents weren't able to help us much either and we finally found our way after a few tough years. I remember my Daddy sending me a five dollar bill every month or so just for "extras" and I saved until I had enough to buy a used washing machine ($40.00 !!!!). Of course, that was 1969 but still.

I'd buy hamburger from the Commissary at 25 cents a pound and use less than 1/2 pound to cook a meal!!! My husband worked his 8-10 hours in the Navy and another 5-6 hours at a convenience store. I made our little baby's clothes from less than a yard of material and we somehow we survived.

Maybe I should have told that story over and over to my daughter over the years!!!!!

Stay healthy.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
12. oh, what we do for our kids...
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 06:58 PM
Jan 2012

Your post implies that your daughter is being unreasonable in her expectations and your financial help is not really "help"... it seems as if giving up the house, car and business could give her the impetus to begin again and you are merely stalling the inevitable... (important to treat the grandkids occasionally though )

tough love is important...

I have no savings (almost retirement age) because I have continued to help my children (egads!- 5 of them)... they just all, at times, have seemed to fall on bad luck. They all buy 2nd hand clothes and work when they can and don't have any luxuries to speak of. Each one of them has dreams and hopes and I have no problem helping them financially whenever they need it.

The caveat... they know they will be taking care of me when I can no longer help them

If I thought for a minute any one of my children was being unreasonable or extravagant, I would simply tell them NO if they wanted money to help fund behaviors that just keep them "in the hole".

Kali

(55,003 posts)
13. jebus
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 08:41 PM
Jan 2012

figure out how much you can actually afford. tell here you will pay exactly HALF that amount for 6 months so she can find a new place or a paying roommate, a different less expensive vehicle, and get her business going or find a real job.

save the extra half you can afford to help her with for emergencies but for gods sake DON'T TELL her about it.

you are NOT helping her by fixing all this shit
it is ok to help, but you are providing LUXURY for a bum

and this is coming from a soft-hearted sucker that still has two adult sons at home!

FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
17. Had to laugh after reading your last line.
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 11:58 PM
Jan 2012

I guess I'm not in this boat all by myself after all!

Thanks for your thoughts.

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