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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:16 AM

Pic Of The Moment: Surely We Can Do Better Than This

13 replies, 3748 views

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Arrow 13 replies Author Time Post
Reply Pic Of The Moment: Surely We Can Do Better Than This (Original post)
EarlG Dec 2012 OP
onehandle Dec 2012 #1
Shadowflash Dec 2012 #5
yellerpup Dec 2012 #2
shenmue Dec 2012 #3
calimary Dec 2012 #4
yellerpup Dec 2012 #7
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #6
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #8
chirurgdecreier Dec 2012 #9
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2012 #11
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #10
Canuckistanian Dec 2012 #12
Jamaal510 Dec 2012 #13

Response to EarlG (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:18 AM

1. Earn that Nobel, Mr. President. nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:45 PM

5. Heh.

President Obama earned his Peace Prize just for the simple act of keeping Mr. 'bomb, bomb, bomb Iran' out of office.

Everything else is just icing.

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Response to EarlG (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:20 AM

2. Surely, we can do better than this.

Not just the President, all of us.

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Response to yellerpup (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:24 PM

3. Yes.

It's about time.

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Response to yellerpup (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:45 PM

4. Yes. Yes we can.

Concrete ideas and suggestions. Feel free to add your own!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008662

OTHER GOOD IDEAS in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022006557

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Response to calimary (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:17 PM

7. Thanks, I'll trip over there.

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Response to EarlG (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:49 PM

6. Surely we at DU can do better.

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Response to EarlG (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:08 PM

8. Yes.

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Response to EarlG (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:03 PM

9. outlaw assault weapons, possibly more potential Adams out there than we thought

Adam Lanza, I read, was only diagnosed as suffering from Asperger's Syndrome; a form of AUTISM, where the affected individual exhibits, usually, a high level of intelligence, which somehow deteriorates as a social encounter evolves into disjointed verbal interactions where the Asperger’s victim, in arguing his case, deteriorates to emotional confusion though otherwise capable of very high levels of intellect. This leads to a self-frustration that can get to be OCCASIONAL violent, with physical violence only directed to self. Having encountered many such diagnosed college students in a pedagogical setting, I must say that they seem in no way retarded. But they lack the characteristic ability to interact with others in a socially fascilitating fashion over time; and, they cannot feel a common experience as common because they are totally trapped within a self-centered perspective oblivious of others. Neuroscience speaks of the standard social "anomie" of autistics, marked by a limbic/supra-limbic disability to relate to others via the proposed "mirror neurons" recently discovered by Italian researchers, which fire in response to an inner sense of projection to someone observed and the task performed, communicative or otherwise, and a readiness to respond to these actions communicatively through learned imitation or affective or cognitive link to the other person under observation. There are in nature some non-social animals that are solitary because they cannot form bonds with con-specific, prone to hurting even their own litter or litter-mates. Autism is a behaviorally ascribed diagnosis, but correlation with CNS developmental problems in the Amygdala-basal ganglia-limbic structures has been demonstrated. Unlike solitary animals that may easily turn on their own cubs just to bring the mother back into estrus, AUTISTICS-- especially Asperger's patients-- are not ranked with the violent PSYCHOTIC human analogue of these solitary animals: the "anti-social personality disorder." Both the autistic and psychotic individuals generally feel no reliable and trustworthy bond to other fellow humans, but are prone to acts of cruelty both in response to an interaction or even when unprovoked.

I recall in psychiatric rotation, the presentation of a video of a man under police interrogation who had bludgeoned an old woman to death. He readily admitted it, insisting that she annoyed him when she couldn't open her jewelry box in fear so he hit her…."and then the f---en bitch really pissed me off when she bled all over my nice Hawaiian shirt that I had just stolen from Macy's today. The more I hit her, the more she messed up my damned shirt , so I really got mad until I finally stopped her with a lot of good swings of my bat."

Note his total lack of empathy for his victim. The question I would ask is: WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AUTISM AND ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER? Both lack empathy, the release necessary for both the psychotic above and the autistic, Adam Lanza to perpetrate the heartless killing of innocents. The autistic suffers exaggerated waves of frustration, producing intense emotional arousal which often leads to SELF injury in a viscous circle. The anti-social personality turns on others pitilessly and tortures without seeming provocation. However, the inward vs. outward violence in response to frustration is not an obligate distinction between the two diagnoses. The "psychotic" diagnosis (anti-social personality syndrome) of the latter is made usually as a result of a specific crime against innocent victims. So it is a forensic diagnosis. Autism is usually made much earlier and so is deemed a developmental disorder. Adam Lanza was diagnoses, per the media, as Asperger's Disorder-- a form of autism, not with an Anti-Social Personality Syndrome, though if the former diagnosis had not been made, the events at the Sandy Hook School may well have led to the anti-social personality disorder diagnosis. The differential between the two, Dr. Sanje Gupta stressed on CNN, is that the autistic strikes at himself while the psychotic at others...the former being a "developmental" and the latter a "character" disorder.

One may legitimately wonder if Dr. ( a neurosurgeon turned reporter) Gupta's diagnosis is maybe a distinction possibly without a difference. Here is a man of 20 years of age diagnosed as autistic when a child who, as an adult, behaves as a psychotic. The common thread between the two is an inability to relate to others and empathize with them, at one time producing self-injury yet at another deliberate mass murder and mayhem. It does not seem far fetched, therefore, to ask if the developmental autism might in fact have made possible the later psychotic mayhem?

I am in no way suggesting that we treat all autistics diagnosed in infancy as potential violent psychotics later on and lock them up. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN AUTISTICS-- AS EXPRESSING SELF-DIRECTED VIOLENCE-- AND PSYCHOTICS-- AS DIRECTING VIOLENCE TOWARDS OTHERS-- DESPITE THE CHARACTERISTIC COMMON INABILITY TO RELATE TO OTHERS AND EMPATHIZE FOR THOSE SUFFERING, IS NOT A PROVEN DIFERENTIAL. This is in no way to suggest that autism necessarily sets one up to become a dangerous killer psychotic. Rather, I would say that maybe we don’t know enough to rule out a possible continuum between the two conditions.

And still, I would NEVER proposed that we treat autistics as potential psychotic killers and lock them up in isolation. I think there’s enough empirical data to show that many autistics, especially Asperger’s autistics, can integrate into society. But if there’s any chance that there is a link between the anomie of autistics and that of psychotics, that autistics can end up taking out their frustrations as might have Adam Lanza, then—with 1 in 10 births today deemed autistic at some level (we have no reliable stats for the autistic birth rate in the past century)—it behooves us to end the easy availability of military-type ASSAULT weapons. As President Obama said, we’ve had too many such tragic uses of soldier’s war weapons on helpless innocent civilians to permit the assumption that no amount of NRA type “training to use weapons responsibly” will insure public safety. Such weapons of war have no place in our society with the easy accessibility they enjoy today, especially if it turns out that some autistics MAY OR MAY NOT become potential psychotics, taking out their self-centered frustrations as did Adam Lanza. The key element in both disorders is inability to empathize/relate with fellow human beings. While this should not allow us to restrict a person’s freedom, it should force us to cease making dangerous military weapons available as a “Constitutional Freedom” because it has proven to abrogate the pursuit of LIFE and happiness, as per the Constitution, for far too many of the rest of us. We must end any availability of military weapons now because the number of people who might repeat the Sandy Hook School tragedy as “copy cats” may be far, far greater than we think if it should turn out that autism in any way makes for propensities towards such psychosis as exhibited by Adam Lanza.

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Response to chirurgdecreier (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:19 PM

11. I just want to make an important correction here....

You refer to psychosis in your discussion of autism and anti-social personality disorder.

Actually, psychosis refers to a psychological break with reality, an inability to discern reality from one's internal fantasies, hallucinations, etc.

Understand, I am not a psychologist, just an interested layperson. But what you are talking about is PSYCHOPATHY. The person is perfectly aware of reality and able to function, often to a high degree. But they posses no empathy and interestingly, are dulled to fear, as brain studies have shown.

The only emotion they do experience is anger and frustration. Other people are just objects to be used to their own ends.

That's about all I can offer here, but I just wanted to correct you on that point.
There are other DUers who are way more knowledgeable than I am. Hope they join in the discussion.

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Response to EarlG (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:09 PM

10. K/R

As ever, I salute President Obama for his leadership, compassion, and restraint.

These next four years are going to be historic!

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Response to EarlG (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:12 PM

12. Hard to argue with this logic

Inaction on this is going to be inexcusable.

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Response to EarlG (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:38 AM

13. The only thing that stops us from having more reasonable gun laws

and lowering the frequency of mass shootings is our will.

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