HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Video & Multimedia (Forum) » TYT: Oops! Now Other Coun...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:07 PM

TYT: Oops! Now Other Countries Have Drones



While President Obama ponders new legal and moral guidelines to govern America's growing use of armed robot aircraft, the world outside the White House is engaged in a revolutionary frenzy of building, arming and flying killer drones.

Small, inexpensive and lethal, drones enable everyone from terrorists to the Chinese People's Liberation Army to engage in what the Pentagon acknowledges is a new arms race with "alarming" consequences. More than 50 countries operate surveillance drones and, increasingly, are fitting them with weapons."*

When the U.S. was the only nation with drone power, it was easy-- the military could launch deadly strikes with little to no guidelines. Now, more than 50 other countries and alleged terrorist groups have drone technology. What will this mean for worldwide warfare and military policies? Cenk Uygur breaks it down.

*Read more from David Wood/ Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/american-drones_n_2199193.html

30 replies, 3364 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply TYT: Oops! Now Other Countries Have Drones (Original post)
WhoIsNumberNone Dec 2012 OP
2on2u Dec 2012 #1
rwsanders Dec 2012 #2
02potato Dec 2012 #3
DreamGypsy Dec 2012 #4
BadGimp Dec 2012 #20
DreamGypsy Dec 2012 #25
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #28
Quixote1818 Dec 2012 #5
MyNameGoesHere Dec 2012 #6
freshwest Dec 2012 #9
zeemike Dec 2012 #7
DeSwiss Dec 2012 #8
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #10
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #14
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #15
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #11
99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #13
99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #12
ancianita Dec 2012 #16
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #18
ancianita Dec 2012 #21
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #23
ancianita Dec 2012 #30
Ezlivin Dec 2012 #27
Heather MC Dec 2012 #17
redgreenandblue Dec 2012 #19
ancianita Dec 2012 #22
redgreenandblue Dec 2012 #24
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #29
lyingsackofmitt Dec 2012 #26

Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:13 PM

1. If Pakistan develops drones and flies them over the command and control bases for our drones

 

"just to take a look don't you know" it would be considered an act of war to be sure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 2on2u (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:40 PM

2. Yep, and now our military industrial complex will have an excuse to build skynet to protect us from

those other drones ya know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:17 PM

3. I say again !

The technology is cheap and common world wide and has been available for some time!

The only thing that the U.S. has over others is quantity of drones..for now...

Drones can be used to transport illegal drugs as well as catch those who...

http://diydrones.com/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:19 PM

4. Drones are the new Nukes

After reading a couple of DU posts on drones yesterday, I chanced upon this article: Growth in China’s Drone Program Called ‘Alarming’

http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/27/growth-in-chinas-drone-program-called-alarming/?src=recg


Are we surprised that China is building drones??? How shocking.

“In a worrisome trend, China has ramped up research in recent years faster than any other country,” said the unclassified analysis published in July by the Defense Science Board. “It displayed its first unmanned system model at the Zhuhai air show five years ago, and now every major manufacturer for the Chinese military has a research center devoted to unmanned systems.”

The report, which said “the military significance of China’s move into unmanned systems is alarming,” suggested that China could “easily match or outpace U.S. spending on unmanned systems, rapidly close the technology gaps and become a formidable global competitor in unmanned systems.”

Two Chinese models on display at the Zhuhai show — the CH-4 and the Wing Loong, or Pterodactyl — appeared to be clones of the Reaper and Predator drones that are fixtures in the U.S. arsenal. A larger drone, the Xianglong, or Soaring Dragon, is a long-range, high-altitude model that would seem to be a cousin of the RQ-4 Global Hawk.


Drones are NOT rocket science. Drones are aeronautic science. Young people are building working drones as their projects for school science fairs. Sure, adding missiles and other weaponry is complex and requires more sophistication, but even North Korea can probably manage that with the help of a couple high school seniors.

I think that competition to build drones will become the new Cold War, with lots more countries capable of playing the game. And, just like in that other Cold War, the United States has lost the last shred of hope to control the spread of these new 'nukes':

If China, for instance, sends killer drones into Kazakhstan to hunt minority Uighur Muslims it accuses of plotting terrorism, what will the United States say? What if India uses remotely controlled craft to hit terrorism suspects in Kashmir, or Russia sends drones after militants in the Caucasus? American officials who protest will likely find their own example thrown back at them.

“The problem is that we’re creating an international norm” — asserting the right to strike preemptively against those we suspect of planning attacks, argues Dennis M. Gormley, a senior research fellow at the University of Pittsburgh and author of “Missile Contagion,” who has called for tougher export controls on American drone technology. “The copycatting is what I worry about most.”


The consequences will be far-reaching and long-lasting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DreamGypsy (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:33 PM

20. no, not any time soon. They ARE in fact the new AK-47 on steroids..

When US weapons makers get busy making these things in the various sizes, etc., they will want buyers. The US Government will only too happy yo help sow the seeds of instability. Because we all know our Goverment is controlled in part by the War Machine.

Lunchbox and smaller sized drones launched from back porches and caves everywhere, raining down weapons of all types on unsuspecting and defenseless populations everywhere... oh my.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BadGimp (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:35 PM

25. Sooner than we think.

Drones currently don't pose quite the same threat for mutually assured destruction that nukes do...until there is a nuke equipped drone.

But, as you point out, the proliferation will be worse. U.S. drones in Australia to observe China: Chinese drone takes out Chinese dissident in Australia: U.S. drone launched from Australia takes out 'terrorist' in Mongolia; Chinese drone sneaks across the Canadian border unnoticed among the dense aerial traffic of Homeland Security and local police force drones, takes out dissident in the U.S. Anti-drone missile systems proposed, built; drone 'shields' for everyone, breeding 'stealth' drones. Oh, well.

Here's one of your AK-47's. Roll on, oh great Military Industrial Complex!


The ScanEagle is manufactured by Boeing Co. According to the firm's website, the drone is four feet long and has a 10-foot wingspan. Almost sized for shoulder launching

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BadGimp (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:01 PM

28. "When US weapons makers get busy making these things in the various sizes,etc.,

they will want buyers"

truly.
Arms dealers selling to only one "side"? Yeah, sure.

How difficult would it be for some "terrorist" in this country to do a Dr. No and drone attack the Pentagon
or any other target here?
Like a nuke plant.
all this talk about keeping drone building technology out of the hands of another country is just blather.
For how many years now has there been public complaining of China hacking "secrets" from State computers?
Only China does that? Nope.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:43 PM

5. Swarms of nano drones? Holy shit!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:59 PM

6. Begin, soon the drone wars will. Hmmmmmm.

Our own drone army must prepare. Yes, hmmm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MyNameGoesHere (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:01 PM

9. Yup, yup.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:51 PM

7. Long ago I read science fiction stories like this

And at the time I believed I would never live long enough to see such things....but it is hear.
And the next step in it's evolution is the autonomous drone...after that we are fucked.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:55 PM

8. K&R


''...and they shall beat their swords into
plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.''

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:18 PM

10. Reaping what we sow

Seriously, it is time for Israel to start making peace. If they keep up with their genocide and subjugation of their neighbors, it will be about 3 years before they start getting hit where it hurts. You don't need nukes to deal a very heavy blow.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueStreak (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:28 PM

14. Genocide?

Man they are really incompetent at it, if that is what they are after.

Or as i suspect, you might be talking out of the area usually reserved for sitting upon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Riftaxe (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:14 PM

15. They have confined 5 million humans essentially in prison

and then periodically hit them with overwhelming force that is 1000 times out of proportion with anything the Palestinians have done to fight back. Collective punishment. Assassinations. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

What would you call it? I call it genocide.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:34 PM

11. Pandora's Box Has Many Evils Yet To Be Known

eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:54 PM

13. Jinks - you owe me coke.

Yes I know, my post was several minutes after yours,
but when I started typing mine (and then got distracted
part way through by a phone call) you post had not
appeared on my screen yet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:52 PM

12. Classic Pandora's Box

Now there's no fucking way we'll ever get the drones
back in the box, no matter how horrid things become
as a result of this.

Frankly, I am not proud to have voted for a man who
more than any other President, has pretty much forced
this cheap deadly technology onto the world stage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:17 PM

16. UAV's have been around for over forty years, and other countries have had them for a LONG time.

None of this is new. It's just new to HuffPo or Cenk. We've never been the only country with drone power. I got this article back in 2010, which people here should check out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unmanned_aerial_vehicles

Notice how many models the UK, US, Pakistan, Russia and Israel have. We haven't been the world's entire supplier. And we're probably not the world's sole weaponizer, either. So now that we know, now what.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ancianita (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 03:11 AM

18. But we are a pioneer in autonomous, high altitude, long range, ultra-duration

and the indiscriminate use thereof.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:00 AM

21. If most of us here didn't know the facts I presented, I doubt that most here would know enough

to agree or disagree with you. I'll bet you can't prove this allegation. All this does is perpetuate this Big Bad Guy image of the US. Yes, this military is guilty of misuse of weaponry, but no one here really knows whether or not we're a pioneer in even that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ancianita (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:31 AM

23. Oh, we are indeed.

Find me one nation that has killed more people in the last 10 years with drone technology.

I will accept just ONE.


China, Russia, et al, are perhaps more discreet about their drone development programs, but for altitude and duration, I have not seen a publicly-known piece of hardware that compares to our current, and immediate future inventory. Some very good copies and some very good derivatives are available, but nothing innovative just yet.

And as far as autonomous, shit, that's available in the US in off the shelf commercial drones right now. If you can work excel, you can work one of them.

So, anyway, one nation with a higher body count. Just one. I'll wait.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:44 AM

30. You're right that everyone knows about us. But don't think the equipment isn't all over the planet.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ancianita (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:54 PM

27. "[N]o one here really knows whether or not we're a pioneer in even that.

It doesn't matter if we pioneer something.

We will damn sure master it.

And we have.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:56 PM

17. OMG we are so stupid

every Robot movie ever made begins with stupid humans, discovering away to wipe each other out without being there.
We are screwed!

First Drones
Next John Connor will be sending Arnold back in time to stop the company that started all this shit. SMH

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:46 PM

19. And our peace prize president heralded the era of the new arms race.

Congratulations.

I guess the upside of this might be that it levels the field again. No more super-powers dominating everyone with their massive arsenal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:04 AM

22. Which isn't a bad thing. It might force bullies to just negotiate trade agreements instead of

going in and killing off people for resources.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:39 AM

24. It would seem like a commercial laptop, or even a smart-phone, could be modded into a drone.

Just hypothetically speaking. The hardware seems sophisticated enough. Just hook up a few extra cameras. Attach a few propellers. Program an easy-to-use steering system. Use the regular satellite network to control it.

Sometimes I think placing children into this world is reckless...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:06 PM

29. That clicking sound on the keyboard that you hear?

Agent Mike.
He is everywhere, listening in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:42 PM

26. A drone is just another tool

If the drone is used for no good, then the problem is the asshole that used it for that purpose. I don't see them much different that other surveillance/weapon systems, just the guy that used to go with the system into the field now gets to control it remotely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread