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Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:18 PM

Right-Winger Owned in Economic Debate



It gets quite good in the second half

From: www.davidpakman.com

31 replies, 3925 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Right-Winger Owned in Economic Debate (Original post)
celtics23 Nov 2012 OP
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #1
freshwest Nov 2012 #7
bjobotts Nov 2012 #25
kenfrequed Nov 2012 #31
wxgeek7 Nov 2012 #2
pipewrench Nov 2012 #3
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #4
zeemike Nov 2012 #5
Plucketeer Nov 2012 #8
freshwest Nov 2012 #6
SemperEadem Nov 2012 #9
srichardson Nov 2012 #10
RVN VET Nov 2012 #11
MissMarple Nov 2012 #12
dpakman91 Nov 2012 #13
cachukis Nov 2012 #14
JHB Nov 2012 #19
JHB Nov 2012 #21
OverBurn Nov 2012 #15
vaberella Nov 2012 #16
bjobotts Nov 2012 #26
vaberella Nov 2012 #29
Prana69 Nov 2012 #17
cui bono Nov 2012 #18
demwing Nov 2012 #30
raging moderate Nov 2012 #20
JDPriestly Nov 2012 #27
silverweb Nov 2012 #22
hourglass1 Nov 2012 #23
SunSeeker Nov 2012 #24
JDPriestly Nov 2012 #28

Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:44 PM

1. This guy lost me at ...

Last edited Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)

"That's what you will read in any college textbook, but look ... I started my business with $50 from my bedroom and I now bill over $250 mil, so I think I know a little something about how this works."


Isn't that a lot like saying: "I get in my car, turn the key and step on the gas, so I think I know a little something about how to build/repair a car?"

Why do conservatives hate knowledge so much?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:19 PM

7. Could be that 'Facts have a liberal bias' thing and it burst their bubble, I dunno know.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:17 AM

25. This guy was lying his ass off

Obama stated that he regretted having to extend the Bush taxcuts but it was the only way he could get the GOP to extend unemployment benefits for another year. He felt this would hurt already suffering families who were out of work...period.
Confidence my ass...the fortune 500 companies and corporate America including Wall street have been more profitable under Obama than any President since Harding. They have seen profits soar yet still wages decline and they bitch about having to provide HC for employees though they aren't required to unless they have 50 or more employees.

To avoid paying taxes they are hiding their huge profits off shore.
The head of Zenith stated he would like to put his business on a barge and park it off shore of wherever he could get the cheapest labor without any benefits to pay out and no regulations. A race to the bottom for workers..slaves would work best.

Liar...there aren't "thousands of health care pages to go through for businesses in Obamacare. You just don't want to provide any healthcare because if you were providing HC already there would be nothing you had to do. They are just sore losers and if any economic ideologies have been tried and failed it is the trickle down supply side economics this idiot is spewing where tax cuts for the wealthy only created bubbles and never helped an economy ...ever.
Confidence my ass...You're a liar or ignorant as hell...or both. Piss off.

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Response to bjobotts (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:53 AM

31. He is a typical wallstreet conservative

I always find it funny that when finally the numbers come back that they babble something about "the numbers not mattering" or something like that.

And tax cuts have never helped the economy. Particularly tax cuts for the wealthy.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:46 PM

2. What was that number again?

I could use that free book as a door stop. Lol.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:48 PM

3. that was a great video

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:52 PM

4. LOL ...

You don't like my answers, Craig; but I do have answers!


Pakman should have added:

And my answers are supported by the numbers, and I know ... you don't like numbers.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:54 PM

5. doesn't matter what the numbers say

They have a narrative and they stick with it.
And yes David Pakman owned him but the right wingers will just pretend it never happened.
It's a cult I tell ya...

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Response to zeemike (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:30 PM

8. That's the truth

Damned facts will ruin a good fairy tale every time!

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:18 PM

6. That businessman sounded dumber as time went on. I'd love to see DP go a hour or more.

Soft-spoken, great listener and fast on the analysis and he's never rattled. Thanks for another great vid.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:41 PM

9. GEORGE BUSH INHERITED A SURPLUS AND SQUANDERED IT

TO THE TUNE OF AN ECONOMIC DEPRESSION.

You, sir, have no more to add to the argument. Obama did what he had to do to save the economy--and you would have been ass out had he not done that.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:01 PM

10. Intelligent!

Its great to see a liberal back up their talking points w facts. Ive seen too many debates where the liberal stutters and mutters when asked a question. This one is a winner!

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:33 PM

11. I couldn't watch the video because it was clear, early on, that Pakman's guest was clueless.

All I heard this guy say was that the economy was going to tank because Obama, blah, blah, farble, gargle, fiscal cliff. The kindest thing to be said about the guy is that he was horribly unprepared to answer the only question Pakman was likely to ask him.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:36 PM

12. The numbers don't matter. Classic!



And they didn't in the romney ryan budget. He makes perfect sense using that paradigm.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 06:28 PM

13. thanks for posting my interview!

and for the kind words

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Response to dpakman91 (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:07 PM

14. Great job.

I teach Common Core and no statement can survive without evidence.

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Response to dpakman91 (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 08:21 PM

19. Here's some more relevant numbers...

The inflation-adjusted tax rates in 1955:
(via http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/151.html)



Look at that! Even if you discount the rates as too high, look at where those bracket thresholds were! In 1955, out of 24 tax brackets, 16 of them affected incomes above the equivalent of $250K for married couples filing jointly. Kind of makes the "is $250K 'rich'?" point moot: it's more than some, less than others, obviously, and we used to treat it that way.

What was he saying about a failed ideology that never worked anywhere in the world? Except "the free world" apparently. (I guess we were "socialists" back then. Imagine how embarrassed the Soviets must have been!)

I guess learning the difference between mixed economies and Stalinist police states is one of those things you learn in college that's too eggheaded for someone who bills $250 million.

And just for kicks, here's a graph of the inflation-adjusted tax bracket thresholds for the last 60 years (It's easy to find charts of the top rate, but tougher to find clear displays about where the burden fell in the past. And remember, this chart doesn't deal with what the rates were, just the breakpoints where one level of income was treated differently from another):

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Response to dpakman91 (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 08:27 PM

21. BTW, kudos for keeping a straight face with this guy...

...especially in the several places I found myself yelling "are you F**ing out of your mind?!" when he recited his delusional version of "reality". And I don't normally make outbursts like that.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:18 PM

15. That guy is so full of shit he doesn't even know he is full of shit.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:23 PM

16. Ron Paul man here...Ron Paul all the way. n/t

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Response to vaberella (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:28 AM

26. Ron Paul Man??

Then you're a racist idiot. Paul is like a broken clock...right twice only.
Wants to do away with SS, Medicare, Min wage, public ed, EPA, civil rights, all regulations. Maybe you just haven't done your homework but Paul and his idiot son Rand are detrimental to Democracy.

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Response to bjobotts (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:16 AM

29. You like jumping down someone's throat without getting your facts together.

1. As a point of clarification---I am female.
2. My comment is in reference to the man in the video. He sounds like a Paul supporter.
3. "Racist idiot" ---towards an Afro-Caribbean poster (ahh...got to love the irony there)

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:31 PM

17. That guest was so patronising, treating Pakman like a child. And Pakman slammed him with facts. n/t

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:55 PM

18. Denny's doesn't go out and create more demand (interviewer claims they can do so at will) because

they don't know what the costs of Obamacare are going to be and because they don't know if the FDA is going to enact a new regulation against fatty foods, salty foods aor 16 oz. drinks???

That doesn't make ANY sense!!!

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Response to cui bono (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 09:21 AM

30. yep, talking points used as filler

for gaps in the interviewee's knowledge.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 08:25 PM

20. UNCERTAINTY? Give me a break!

I am almost 65 years old. When I was a little girl, back in the fifties, all of us, including the upper 1%, had to live every day with the uncertainty of whether the world would explode into all-out nuclear war! They had us doing atomic bomb drills every month, because nobody knew what was going to happen in that Cold War. Also, some of the Communists liked to talk big about Revolution, and they were winning a lot of countries in those times. However, the rich people in those days had something called GUTS, which made it possible for them to DO THEIR JOBS FOR THE COUNTRY, anyway, which meant taking their best guess about investing in the country and building industries to keep the economy going! They realized that EVERYBODY ELSE had to keep doing their duty in uncertain times, and they KNEW that we were all Americans and all in this together! And during the Second World War, those rich people had lived with the uncertainty of whether Nazi troops would march in with bombs and tanks and REAL barbed-wire concentration camps. But THEY had managed to keep DOING THEIR JOBS FOR THE COUNTRY, too! And that was a big part of why the guys in the fifties had an intact economy to work with. They knew it, too, and by the time the sixties rolled around, even families like mine that had gone hungry a lot were finally getting paid a living wage. Several times in my life, lily-livered rich people have started to whine that they just HAD to have LOWER taxes, and make extravagant promises about the WONDERFUL jobs they would create, if ONLY we would let them off from paying their fair share! THEY NEVER, NEVER, NEVER have produced these wonderful jobs during these periods of lower taxes for them. And they NEVER, NEVER, NEVER will! Bill Clinton was right when he was President, and when we FINALLY did what he said, the economy BOOMED! Even for the rich people, better than before! And Bill Clinton is right now, and so is President Obama.
It's arithmetic! And history! So they want to be called Captains of Industry, do they? Well, then, let them put their money where their mouths are! As the saying goes.

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Response to raging moderate (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:17 AM

27. Very True, raging moderate.

The person David Pakman was interviewing is simply a sore loser. Might I add, he also is no patriot.

During WWII, people lived in even more uncertainty that we knew in the 1950s. And what did they buy with trust, enthusiasm and love? US Savings Bonds.

The problem with these rich fat cats is that they don't want to take risks. Imagine someone who claims to be a businessman and can't take risks. No wonder our country is in bad shape. The money is held by lazy, scared money-grabbers who hate America.

Too many regulations, my eye.

And if you go back 150 years, you included progressive Republicans like Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. That's why it makes no sense to go back beyond, say 1920, maybe even 1950.

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 09:22 PM

22. Bookmarked for later.



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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 09:24 PM

23. well done david

while some figures can be manipulated to fit a designed purpose - numbers generated by facts are facts in and of themselves ...
it is time to tell these guys to sit down and shut up - facts, science and truth matter ...

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:11 PM

24. Pakman embarrassed that Winger--his neck got redder than a baboon's butt. nt

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Response to celtics23 (Original post)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:33 AM

28. My advice to the businessmen who can't understand the regulations

or new laws like the ACA: Hire a lawyer to read it and then explain it to you. That's what lawyers do for a living. If your company is making what you say it is, you can afford to hire someone to advise you on the law. Some companies hire a person who deal with regulatory compliance. If you feel so worried, why don't you try that? The law is never all that certain, but then neither are the markets.

Or, if you can't afford a lawyer, go to your trade association or the Chamber of Commerce or some journal of the insurance industry.

If you are going to run a business, you have to be literate enough to at least read summaries of new laws. Everybody has to make an effort to understand what the law is.

Besides, much of the implementation of the ACA is, as I understand it, left up to the states. So businesses need to check publications that deal with the laws of the states in which they hire employees. That some states are taking their time deciding how to implement the law is not the fault of the Obama administration.

Congress passed the ACA. It was written as I understand it with the help of the insurance companies and to get the agreement of the Republicans. So this gentleman should air his grievances with the Republicans who could not accept a simpler plan.

This guy is just another member of the Party of No. Typical.

As for his economic arguments, they make no sense. They may make sense in his microeconomic calculations, that is the way he calculates his balance sheet, expenditures and income in his own company. But they do not work for the nation.

For example, we have to have food stamps. The alternative is to have starving children. There are enough hungry people in the US already. We have to feed the hungry.

As for Social Security being a Ponzi scheme. Not nearly as much as Wall Street. Ask anyone who is retired and is investing in secure investments in the stock market.

Again, as a nation, we have to provide for elderly people who can no longer work and who have been unable to save for retirement or have faced some catastrophe that has wiped out their savings. (Like maybe the 2008 bust-up on Wall Street which was caused by the lax regulatory enforcement of the Bush administration?)

Social Security is far better funded than our banks or AIG were in October 2008 and is solvent for the foreseeable future. Remember how two major Wall Street firms went bankrupt in 2008? This man has a short memory.

We need to focus on ending our trade deficit because that is the key both to returning good jobs and income to Americans of all income levels and to increasing tax revenues.

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