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Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:49 PM

 

Is Columbus Day a celebration of genocide?

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Link to petition to change Columbus Day to Indigenous People Day
http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2012/10/indigenous-peoples-day-video-petitions.html

17 replies, 1844 views

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Arrow 17 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is Columbus Day a celebration of genocide? (Original post)
Whovian Oct 2012 OP
valerief Oct 2012 #1
MADem Oct 2012 #6
valerief Oct 2012 #13
MADem Oct 2012 #14
MADem Oct 2012 #2
Whovian Oct 2012 #3
MADem Oct 2012 #7
upaloopa Oct 2012 #4
demosincebirth Oct 2012 #5
MADem Oct 2012 #8
Whovian Oct 2012 #9
B Stieg Oct 2012 #10
demosincebirth Oct 2012 #12
MADem Oct 2012 #15
msongs Oct 2012 #11
Trenton Oct 2012 #16
Whovian Oct 2012 #17

Response to Whovian (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:50 PM

1. I heard FDR created it to get the Italian vote.

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Response to valerief (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:01 PM

6. They could also call it "Beringia Land Bridge Immigration Day"

Turns out we're ALL immigrants--some of us have just lived here a wee bit longer than others!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120711134710.htm

"For years it has been contentious whether the settlement of the Americas occurred by means of a single or multiple migrations from Siberia," said Professor Andres Ruiz-Linares (UCL Genetics, Evolution and Environment), who coordinated the study. "But our research settles this debate: Native Americans do not stem from a single migration. Our study also begins to cast light on patterns of human dispersal within the Americas."
In the most comprehensive survey of genetic diversity in Native Americans so far, the team took data from 52 Native American and 17 Siberian groups, studying more than 300,000 specific DNA sequence variations called Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms to examine patterns of genetic similarities and differences between the population groups.
The second and third migrations have left an impact only in Arctic populations that speak Eskimo-Aleut languages and in the Canadian Chipewyan who speak a Na-Dene language. However, even these populations have inherited most of their genome from the First American migration. Eskimo-Aleut speakers derive more than 50% of their DNA from First Americans, and the Chipewyan around 90%. This reflects the fact that these two later streams of Asian migration mixed with the First Americans they encountered after they arrived in North America.
"There are at least three deep lineages in Native American populations," said co-author David Reich, Professor of genetics at Harvard Medical School. "The Asian lineage leading to First Americans is the most anciently diverged, whereas the Asian lineages that contributed some of the DNA to Eskimo-Aleut speakers and the Na-Dene-speaking Chipewyan from Canada are more closely related to present-day East Asian populations."

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Response to MADem (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 12:00 PM

13. Oh, heck, we're all citizens of the world. Nations are just tax bases for the PTB

to play with. Workers of the world are all the same--either in misery or living with the possibility of living in misery.

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Response to valerief (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 12:57 PM

14. I do agree that we are all citizens of the world. I regard nations as communities, some nicer than

others, but most having something unique to offer.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:53 PM

2. "The Sopranos" did an amusing episode on that very topic.

That's where I learned that the "Crying Indian" of the Keep America Beautiful TV ads was Italian!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody

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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:56 PM

3. OMG! I did not know that. Talk about irony.

 

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Response to Whovian (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:05 PM

7. Well, our native anscestors immigrated here, too--on foot, over a land bridge!

America really is a land that people COME to--our "immigrant nature" isn't just a product of our government--it's in the land!! And it goes back to the ice age!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120711134710.htm

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:56 PM

4. I'm kind of a history nut when it comes to the

explorers and in almost every case indigenous peoples were killed and enslaved.
So in my opinion it takes a lot of reading and research to understand that history.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:57 PM

5. Well, someboby had to discover the Americas. Would history have been any different?

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:09 PM

8. Actually, the "Native People" (who aren't really native, either--they just got here first) are the

discoverers of America.

They came from Siberia.

Colombus's contribution was they he stumbled upon the place, and then got the word back to Europe that it was, in fact, here. He was more of a publicist--an important job, certainly, but those folks who wandered across the land bridge from Asia actually found the place first!

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:12 PM

9. It had already been discovered. Just not by Europeans.

 

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:52 PM

10. I don't mean to tick anyone off, but...

...as a 2nd Generation Italian American and a media/rhetoric student, i really don't know what I feel about this particular movement. The way Mr. Madsen connects Columbus to Jackson is a rather large chronological and causal jump, and it seems he's ascribing the roots of all race-based genocide in the Americas to Columbus.

It would be absolute folly to dispute Euro-centrism and the clearly genocidal intent and impact of New World or any other colonization by the West, but must we vilify one race in defense of another rather than discussing how these trajectories developed and how subtly and overtly they endure? There's a difference between expressing guilt and accepting responsibility, and I'm just not confident that simply attacking Columbus Day achieves the latter.

The racial slur "wop" often applied to Italians originally came from the abbreviation for "without papers," a fairly ironic title for genocidal destroyers. Recourse to a savage hierarchy is a depressingly human trait, and I'm worried that we risk perpetuating that drive when we start penalizing individual races, particularly symbolically, in a New Media-driven world. Don't we need a broader view of history if we are ever to progress?


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Response to B Stieg (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:54 PM

12. I agree with you, but some will stand their ground to the death. Figuratively speaking, that is

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Response to B Stieg (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 01:23 PM

15. It's always problematic when one looks at the decisions of one's forebears through the lens of one's

own circumstances. I am pretty sure that a few hundred years from now, we'll be regarded, as a society, as insufferable, intolerant, evil, bad, stupid--you name it--and we'll be mocked roundly by people looking at us through their own lens.

I think people always--now, then, and in the future--will look for some sort of advantage. That's what Colombus was doing. The entire society from which he came separated the world into Christians and heathens, and heathens didn't have "souls" so of COURSE they were "sub-human" and just didn't count. It sounds insufferable, intolerant, evil, bad and stupid--and it is, but Colombus (and his wealthy and royal employers) were looking at their lives through the prism of their societal lens. That crazy shit made sense to them. Of course, once upon a time, people believed that the world was flat and that the sun rotated around the earth.

One of our greatest Presidents used to run around killing "wild animals" because that's what "Manly Men" did. I'm betting if TR spent a half a decade in the present century, he'd probably be less enthused about that "sport."

Where you stand, often as not, depends in many ways on where (and when) you sit.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:59 PM

11. all in the name of the catholic religion. way to go, Columbus nt

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Oct 10, 2012, 01:07 PM

16. Properly observe the beginning of a genocide

Working with indigenous people around the world whose rights are still trampled upon every day make the celebration of Columbus Day even more odious. Let's take the moment to consider that there were hundreds of millions of people living in the Americas (some in cities that were the largest and cleanest in the world) who would eventually succumb to disease, slavery, warfare or outright murder at the hands of European colonizers.

The transgressions against indigenous people worldwide continue to this day. We've started a petition on Change.org to urge the U.N. to hold true to the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

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Response to Trenton (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 10, 2012, 01:33 PM

17. Welcome to DU. Will check out your link.

 

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