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berniesandero

(96 posts)
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 05:36 PM Jun 2016

SHOCK VIDEO: CA touchscreen machine gives Sanders vote to another candidate

Computer malfunction or intentional software shenanigans? Either way, we need to fix America's infrastructure, starting with voting machines!


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SHOCK VIDEO: CA touchscreen machine gives Sanders vote to another candidate (Original Post) berniesandero Jun 2016 OP
K N R-ed Faux pas Jun 2016 #1
The orange box says "Alameda co." But that county uses paper ballots & optical scanners. pnwmom Jun 2016 #74
Computers Dont Just Malfunction billhicks76 Jun 2016 #90
Alameda county uses paper ballots and optical scanners.. pnwmom Jun 2016 #91
Its A General Comment billhicks76 Jun 2016 #92
Doesn't look like a voting center. Might be a warehouse/facility where CA's election equipment is JimDandy Jun 2016 #96
The Alameda County elections website pnwmom Jun 2016 #98
Thanks so much for that... JimDandy Jun 2016 #99
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Yes they do. Oh, they do. DetlefK Jun 2016 #105
Good Point billhicks76 Jun 2016 #107
Maintenance costs money. DetlefK Jun 2016 #108
I Need A Harddrive That Never Goes Bad billhicks76 Jun 2016 #109
Then you need an SSD. DetlefK Jun 2016 #110
Thanks billhicks76 Jun 2016 #122
They are seldom used during those years though. Maybe 200 uses twice a year every couple years. JimDandy Jun 2016 #118
Okaaay. . . . missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #2
Yep just another isolated incident just like all the other isolated incidents notadmblnd Jun 2016 #3
This helped Hillary how? missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #4
it diluted and denied votes notadmblnd Jun 2016 #8
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #6
Nice. Juvenile name calling. missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #11
I didn't call you any names, wish to clarify? phazed0 Jun 2016 #15
Nope. Proud of my handle missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #18
So where did I call you a name? phazed0 Jun 2016 #19
didn't see any name calling either. PatrynXX Jun 2016 #54
Yes, that was a bad call by the jury. Well, in 8 days, at least jury calls will be appealable. JimDandy Jun 2016 #97
Who's gonna be left here in 8 days? Fuddnik Jun 2016 #116
LOL.. Yep. JimDandy Jun 2016 #119
How many isolated incidents does it take to make some seriously fucked up shit! highprincipleswork Jun 2016 #29
Are you suggesting a giant, evil conspiracy? Tortmaster Jun 2016 #93
A giant evil conspiracy indeed alain2112 Jun 2016 #95
no notadmblnd Jun 2016 #113
Perhaps they didn't all flip to Steinberg? Omaha Steve Jun 2016 #7
Perhaps none of them flipped at all. missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #13
Like butterfly ballots and chads in FL.... Omaha Steve Jun 2016 #16
You know, it really amazes me that the machines we use for voting keep getting "glitches." Scootaloo Jun 2016 #79
Yes indeed. JimDandy Jun 2016 #100
The whole video is fishy. JohnnyRingo Jun 2016 #86
Yes, lots of clues that this was fishy. And yet another one: pnwmom Jun 2016 #124
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #130
yes, depending on the hopemountain Jun 2016 #53
Not so fast there. OldRedneck Jun 2016 #77
are you replying to my post, specifically? hopemountain Jun 2016 #88
I don't get it either. As a previous poll worker, we were trained that if a voter brought JimDandy Jun 2016 #101
This message was self-deleted by its author JohnnyRingo Jun 2016 #125
Would you have noticed this error? JohnnyRingo Jun 2016 #127
I'm think english as a second language etc Omaha Steve Jun 2016 #128
LOL. For every shenanigan we find you act like that's the only one. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #9
I've given up on euphemisms. They are fucking cheating. And they have been all over the country. nt GoneFishin Jun 2016 #58
I saw an anonymous video of an Alien Autopsy once, ... Tortmaster Jun 2016 #94
It's misaligned. Hillary's vote should go to Roque De La Fuente. Touchscreens shouldn't be used. w4rma Jun 2016 #5
Our election system is rigged for a reason, to support the Corporate Candidates. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #10
^^^This desmiller Jun 2016 #22
And has been for years. zeemike Jun 2016 #34
Yes, I'm exasperated by those who see it as "a Republican thing" RufusTFirefly Jun 2016 #42
well put. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #75
yes Angry Dragon Jun 2016 #59
so obvious, yet it eludes those whose bread it butters bbgrunt Jun 2016 #64
It also eludes those that choose to live in a bubble of denial. Try to pull back the curtain rhett o rick Jun 2016 #76
Yes, our voting system is working as designed. nt valerief Jun 2016 #67
Or don't care when it favors their corporate candidate. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2016 #70
The problem with that system is that the electronic vote from the scan.... jg10003 Jun 2016 #73
They use paper ballots and optical scanners in Alameda County -- the county pnwmom Jun 2016 #83
Even that system can be rigged. bvar22 Jun 2016 #123
Reminds me of the Stalin quote packman Jun 2016 #12
Why do Hillary supporters scoff at election fraud? felix_numinous Jun 2016 #14
Just wait, they'll not be scoffing for long notadmblnd Jun 2016 #46
Agreed! FailureToCommunicate Jun 2016 #48
The guy was messing with it MattP Jun 2016 #17
He wasn't messing with it. Touchscreens go out of alignment, especially during heavy use. w4rma Jun 2016 #20
Sounds like the system used at my precinct but what do you mean DawgHouse Jun 2016 #25
We have a scanner that will reject ballots and allow the voter to fill in a brand new one. w4rma Jun 2016 #30
Oh, gotcha! DawgHouse Jun 2016 #32
I really like that system and can't think of a better solution. (nt) w4rma Jun 2016 #36
I agree. I like that there is a paper trail. DawgHouse Jun 2016 #37
Yeah, and each ballot inserted into the locked ballot box has to pass through a verification system. w4rma Jun 2016 #40
Buy still that scanner counts the votes. zeemike Jun 2016 #39
I'm fine with this. The paper ballots are there to be counted and to verify. w4rma Jun 2016 #41
There is no verification unless you count them by hand. zeemike Jun 2016 #69
I'm fine with this, too. That's a legal issue, not a technical issue. The ballots would be there for w4rma Jun 2016 #129
Good for your county...but the vast majority has these damned touch screens or whatever...no good. downeastdaniel Jun 2016 #28
Exactly. Those touchscreens need to go away forever. w4rma Jun 2016 #31
Trying to cast a vote is messing with it? notadmblnd Jun 2016 #47
And there you have it! kadaholo Jun 2016 #21
Dammit! Duval Jun 2016 #23
Hope he raises Holy Hell nt zentrum Jun 2016 #24
Gee, we've know this crap especially during 2000 and 2004 prez elections..so why not just use paper? downeastdaniel Jun 2016 #26
ROFLMAO, okay, all 7,905 vote Michael got.. Bernie can have. Amimnoch Jun 2016 #27
ROFLMAO AlbertCat Jun 2016 #43
Yes. This is a pathetic attempt at a joke. Amimnoch Jun 2016 #45
Where was this? LiberalFighter Jun 2016 #33
this really pisses me off. People stand in line for hours to cast their one single vote renate Jun 2016 #35
So allinthegame Jun 2016 #50
lucky me--I live in Oregon :) renate Jun 2016 #61
Bookmarked. I'm curious to see the contrast the next time hughee99 Jun 2016 #38
LOL Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #44
16-Point Discrepancy In CA Exit Polls... AzDar Jun 2016 #49
This, and many other 'incidents' are troubling. PatrickforO Jun 2016 #51
Yes, Bernie's ideas are great and they'll be about LibDemAlways Jun 2016 #55
LOL...Sure they will! PatrickforO Jun 2016 #56
This is where if whoever wins complains in November PatrynXX Jun 2016 #52
sanctioned election fraud Angry Dragon Jun 2016 #57
This doesn't happen in America! Maybe Ohio, but not America. Major Nikon Jun 2016 #60
This is a calibration problem SmittynMo Jun 2016 #62
or defective, and I would hope they informed the poll worker, and they took the machine out of still_one Jun 2016 #84
Just Realized... kadaholo Jun 2016 #63
Not saying it has been done, but it sure could be. SusanCalvin Jun 2016 #65
Yep...all of those procedures are necessary for a good election process! JimDandy Jun 2016 #104
Are people surprised by this? It's been going on since the introduction of electronic valerief Jun 2016 #66
More election fraud.... blackspade Jun 2016 #68
Good thing these machines can't be hacked, right? Rafale Jun 2016 #71
^THIS^ SusanCalvin Jun 2016 #112
Except this CA county uses paper ballots and optical scanners. pnwmom Jun 2016 #72
Do you notice how you are being ignored? Since what you are stating doesn't fit their narrative, still_one Jun 2016 #78
A lot of us Sanders supporters have the majority of the Clinton supporters on ignore JimDandy Jun 2016 #103
Makes sense. I don't put anyone on ignore, but that's just me. Thanks still_one Jun 2016 #115
I'd like to see more OldRedneck Jun 2016 #80
And the other thing that's fishy? pnwmom Jun 2016 #81
That is exactly right. What would have happened if Hillary was selected, would it select Fuente? still_one Jun 2016 #82
Yes, voters can bring their mail in ballots to their precint voting center on election day JimDandy Jun 2016 #102
The machine has more sense than the voter. Good. Gomez163 Jun 2016 #85
Hahahaha JohnnyRingo Jun 2016 #87
I agree. Also, the box of mail-in ballots says its Alameda Co, Ca. pnwmom Jun 2016 #89
Oh, for fuck's sake. This is clearly a simple technical malfunction. DetlefK Jun 2016 #106
Yeah, my old phone did this too. progressoid Jun 2016 #111
Even more amazing... JohnnyRingo Jun 2016 #126
Why is it . . . Gamecock Lefty Jun 2016 #114
This is why the corporate candidate hates caucuses. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #117
You seem to have forgotten all the screams of election fraud pnwmom Jun 2016 #120
It's obviously miscalibrated.... jimlup Jun 2016 #121
K&R! Pastiche423 Jun 2016 #131

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
74. The orange box says "Alameda co." But that county uses paper ballots & optical scanners.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:36 PM
Jun 2016

On the county elections website, you can see a demonstration of their optical scanning system here. (The second video, where it says "Voting System Demonstration.&quot

http://www.acgov.org/rov/videos.htm

And here you can see Alameda employees getting training on this machine -- in 2011.



 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
90. Computers Dont Just Malfunction
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:19 AM
Jun 2016

Trust me...flipping a vote doesn't just happen. When was the last time your ATM flipped numbers incorrectly. The machines are very similar and made by the same companies. Banks never have errors unless human eror but voting machines always do??? By the way CA Sec Of State said there are 1.25 million uncounted votes still. Thats amazing. Bernie was down by 400,000 when it was said.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
91. Alameda county uses paper ballots and optical scanners..
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:25 AM
Jun 2016

The machine shown next to the "Alameda county" mail-in box isn't an optical scanner.

So I think that little scene was staged.

On the county elections website, you can see a demonstration of their optical scanning system here. (The second video, where it says "Voting System Demonstration.&quot

http://www.acgov.org/rov/videos.htm

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
96. Doesn't look like a voting center. Might be a warehouse/facility where CA's election equipment is
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:47 AM
Jun 2016

certified and or stored. A state I used to live in would radomly pull voting equipment from the counties right before an election, and check them for calibration problems.

I'm not sure what this video is attempting to prove (calibration error? deliberate stealing of votes?), but it's doubful this is an actual voter on election day, as the setting looks off and most jurisdictions prohibit voters from using cameras to take screenshots of their vote. Deliberate vote switching or not, this video instantly conveys the real problem our country has gotten itself into by trusting our elections to hackable, problematic electronic voting machines, instead of verifiable paper ballots.

Could Alameda County be using optical scanners for the mail in ballots and electronic voting machines on election day?

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
98. The Alameda County elections website
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:02 AM
Jun 2016

has a link to a demo showing what voters will encounter when they go to the polls -- paper ballots that they will mark themselves and then insert into the optical scanner.

Here is a link to the demo:

http://www.acgov.org/rov/votingsystemdemo.htm

Here is a link to the elections website that connects to the above link:

http://www.acgov.org/rov/videos.htm



JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
99. Thanks so much for that...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:03 AM
Jun 2016

ETA: I see now the link was in your first post, but I somehow missed it.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
105. HAHAHAHAHAHA! Yes they do. Oh, they do.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:12 AM
Jun 2016

Semiconductor-electronics age because of diffusion of the doping-atoms, magnetically stored data becomes corrupted from thermal noise, the glue holding the glass of the touchscreen deteriorates and leads to uneven contacts...

Do you know how old those touchscreens are? I bet, 5 years minimum.

Have you ever used a 10-year-old touchscreen? A 10-year-old computer?

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
108. Maintenance costs money.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:48 AM
Jun 2016

And there is only so much you can maintain without professional help from the company. You can handle data-corruption, but aging will always happen unless you solder in new microchips and glue in new glass-sheets for the touchscreen.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
110. Then you need an SSD.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 06:33 AM
Jun 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

+ very fast
+ can hold data for long time
- Ages not with time but depending on how much it's actually in use. Bad for situations where you regularly write and delete huge amounts of data.
- expensive

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
118. They are seldom used during those years though. Maybe 200 uses twice a year every couple years.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:18 PM
Jun 2016

The failure rate for touchscreen election machine was unacceptably high in the 2000s when I was involved with their use. Both jurisdictions where I lived back then ended up dumping them in favor of optically scanned paper ballots

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
2. Okaaay. . . .
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 05:41 PM
Jun 2016

If this were a widespread issue, it seems Mr. Steinberg would have made a considerably better showing.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
3. Yep just another isolated incident just like all the other isolated incidents
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 05:46 PM
Jun 2016

that just happened to screw Sanders and help Hillary.

Response to notadmblnd (Reply #3)

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
54. didn't see any name calling either.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:58 PM
Jun 2016

it was a Joke. I've been name called. That wasn't name calling. Besides us bullied people tended to crack jokes over it and not tape the bully's mouth shut . Hey 4 eyes. Oh ahem sorry you didn't notice I have 6. Bifocals. Now we have no lines I'm a fly Shut them up real fast Don't have any idea why that was hidden but I've given up on the jury system. It's nothing but kids. It works about 50/50 of the time.

Tortmaster

(382 posts)
93. Are you suggesting a giant, evil conspiracy?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:46 AM
Jun 2016

Well, then the game is afoot! Grab your revolver, Watson, we're needed in California!

 

alain2112

(25 posts)
95. A giant evil conspiracy indeed
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:22 AM
Jun 2016

A conspiracy so vast, encompassing hundreds of thousands if not millions of people, not one of whom has ever divulged his terrible secret, yet foiled by the discovery and release of this video. I tremble for the future of America, nay for the entire Free World. BradBlog! O, BradBlog! Come save us, Mighty BradBlog!

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
113. no
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:09 AM
Jun 2016

As I said just one more coincidence in a long line of coincidences. If HIllary wasn't rich, I'd tell her to buy lottery tickets, she's that damn lucky.

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
13. Perhaps none of them flipped at all.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 05:59 PM
Jun 2016

Perhaps this machine had a glitch and was taken out of service.
Perhaps voters are smart enough to call somebody's attention to the fact that a machine is broken.

Interesting that there was no attempt by whomever made this video to attempt any of the other candidates to see what would happen.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
79. You know, it really amazes me that the machines we use for voting keep getting "glitches."
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:00 AM
Jun 2016

And it keeps getting dismissed as nothing.

I wonder, if the same machines take votes from Clinton in November, and deliver them to, I dunno, Gary Johnson, will you be as dismissive and accepting of the problem? Oh. Just a glitch.

Fort a moment, get over the candidates. These machiense and hteir perpetual "glitches" are a real problem for our democracy, regardless of who you support.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
100. Yes indeed.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:10 AM
Jun 2016
Fort a moment, get over the candidates. These machiense and hteir perpetual "glitches" are a real problem for our democracy, regardless of who you support.

JohnnyRingo

(18,618 posts)
86. The whole video is fishy.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:28 AM
Jun 2016

First of all, the voter walked up to the machine and immediately began voting without inserting an activation card. Presumably he could have voted on all the machines. He had his iPhone ready to record the act for some reason. Second, anyone with half a brain and one eye would have noticed that the vote was recorded incorrectly and report it. You're right that he oddly didn't try any other options.

This was staged for entertainment purposes and hi-jacked by Bernie people as "proof" that Sanders won in California. I'd wonder who'd fall for this obvious prank, but you know...

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
124. Yes, lots of clues that this was fishy. And yet another one:
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:47 PM
Jun 2016

the orange box for the mail-in ballots says this was in Alameda County. But Alameda County's website says they use paper ballots and optical scanners -- which makes sense because mail-in ballots and voting-day ballots can then both be scanned on the same machine.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
53. yes, depending on the
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:56 PM
Jun 2016

precincts and counties. less traceable.

also, the misinformed volunteer workers who insisted on only giving out provisional ballots to voters who brought in their mail in ballots to exchange for vote in person.

they are wiley - those coyotes.

 

OldRedneck

(1,397 posts)
77. Not so fast there.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:52 PM
Jun 2016

I'm a member of the electoral board in a rural Virginia county.

If someone shows up with an absentee/mail-in ballot at our polls and wants to cast a live ballot, claiming they did not mail in their ballot, our poll workers are instructed to give them a provisional . . . because . . . HOW DO I KNOW THE ABSENTEE/MAIL-IN BALLOT YOU HAVE IS YOURS? HOW DO I KNOW YOU DID NOT CAST YOUR ABSENTEE/MAIL-IN BALLOT?

You cast a provisional. The day after the election, the registrar now has a record of who received absentee/mail-in ballots, who returned them, and who has them still outstanding. If yours is one of those still outstanding, we count you provisional. If your absentee/mail-in ballot has been cast, we toss your provisional.

This situation happens 2-3 times in our county at every election.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
88. are you replying to my post, specifically?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:00 AM
Jun 2016

my post is specifically in reference to the voting machine in yesterday's primary. and the report of provisional ballots being given to person's who brought in their mail in no party or independent ballots and wanted to exchange for a party specific primary ballot. poll workers were supposed to have been instructed to exchange per the request of the voter.

when someone brings in a ballot - obviously, they have not yet voted. unless someone was mailed duplicate ballots - does this happen?
no? did not think so.

seriously, how would it even be possible for someone to bring in their ballot and somehow have already sent it in and voted?

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
101. I don't get it either. As a previous poll worker, we were trained that if a voter brought
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:18 AM
Jun 2016

in their ballot along with the mail-back envelope having their name on it, they could spoil the ballot and receive a new regular ballot.

Response to hopemountain (Reply #88)

JohnnyRingo

(18,618 posts)
127. Would you have noticed this error?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:30 PM
Jun 2016

Do you think all the other Bernie voters are too stupid to see this obvious alignment problem and report it?

I don't.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
9. LOL. For every shenanigan we find you act like that's the only one.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 05:54 PM
Jun 2016

How about this one: http://www.gregpalast.com/california-stolen-sanders-right-nowspecial-bulletin-greg-palast/

And here's what Pres Carter had to say: "In the context of the Carter Centre’s work monitoring electoral processes around the globe, Carter also disclosed his opinion that in the US “we have one of the worst election processes in the world, and it’s almost entirely because of the excessive influx of money,” he said referring to lack of controls over private campaign donations."

Where did this "anything to win" mentality for Democrats come from?

Tortmaster

(382 posts)
94. I saw an anonymous video of an Alien Autopsy once, ...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:01 AM
Jun 2016

... so don't tell me they're not hiding aliens, too!

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
5. It's misaligned. Hillary's vote should go to Roque De La Fuente. Touchscreens shouldn't be used.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 05:52 PM
Jun 2016

In my county we use paper ballots and the paper ballots are scanned, and proofed for errors, as they are dropped into a ballot box. I can't think of a better system than the one used in my county (Henrico, VA).

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
10. Our election system is rigged for a reason, to support the Corporate Candidates.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 05:56 PM
Jun 2016

The sad part, many Americans live in a bubble of denial.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
34. And has been for years.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:52 PM
Jun 2016

And no matter how many times it is exposed it just goes on and on.
And no one in positions of power will say a word about it much less do something.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
42. Yes, I'm exasperated by those who see it as "a Republican thing"
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:09 PM
Jun 2016

Face it, folks. It's a One Percent thing.
Voting is fine. It pacifies the masses into believing we still have a democracy.
But it can never threaten the goals and wealth of the billionaire class.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
76. It also eludes those that choose to live in a bubble of denial. Try to pull back the curtain
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:48 PM
Jun 2016

and they will attack you.

jg10003

(975 posts)
73. The problem with that system is that the electronic vote from the scan....
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:35 PM
Jun 2016

is used to determine the outcome. The paper ballots are only checked in the event of a recount. It's the same system used here in Broward County, Fla. The best system is to use a touch screen to print a clear unambiguous paper ballot. The paper ballots are then counted. The touch screen doesn't record any votes, it just prints a ballot unencumbered by bad handwriting, over-voting, under-voting, confusing layouts (i.e. butterfly ballots), etc.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
83. They use paper ballots and optical scanners in Alameda County -- the county
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:14 AM
Jun 2016

named on that orange box in the photo.

So there's something strange about the photo.

This is the Alameda county elections website. See the second video, where it says "Voting System Demonstration."

http://www.acgov.org/rov/videos.htm

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
123. Even that system can be rigged.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 02:43 PM
Jun 2016

The most vulnerable point in you election system is not the optical scanner (or BBV i other places), but at the tabulators which are out public sight... and so are the paper ballots by that time.
To rig a vote at the individual BBV level would take thousands of rigged boxes, and many people in on the scam. To rig a few tabulators takes only one person, and that would be enough to flip a close election.

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
12. Reminds me of the Stalin quote
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 05:57 PM
Jun 2016

"It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes"

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
14. Why do Hillary supporters scoff at election fraud?
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:03 PM
Jun 2016

Pretend for a second Clinton votes were changed to Trump with these same tactics. I keep hoping people will wake up to the problem, but I don't expect it at this point.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
46. Just wait, they'll not be scoffing for long
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:33 PM
Jun 2016

They'll be wailing and accusing Donald Trump of election fraud

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
20. He wasn't messing with it. Touchscreens go out of alignment, especially during heavy use.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:12 PM
Jun 2016

And, yes, touchscreens do suck and shouldn't be used.

In my county we use paper ballots and the paper ballots are scanned, and proofed for errors, as they are dropped into a ballot box. I can't think of a better system than the one used in my county (Henrico, VA).

DawgHouse

(4,019 posts)
25. Sounds like the system used at my precinct but what do you mean
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:26 PM
Jun 2016

when you say the ballot is proofed for errors?

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
30. We have a scanner that will reject ballots and allow the voter to fill in a brand new one.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:48 PM
Jun 2016

It won't let invalid ballots into the ballot box and cuts down on voter error.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
40. Yeah, and each ballot inserted into the locked ballot box has to pass through a verification system.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:04 PM
Jun 2016

I don't know if the system keeps a record of timestamps for ballots inserted, but that little bit of code, would make the system even more secure than it already is.

Even without ballot timestamps, it's still the best, most secure, system - I think.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
39. Buy still that scanner counts the votes.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:01 PM
Jun 2016

And you have no idea if it puts them in the right place, and no one does...Only the computer programer knows for sure...that is the beauty of it.

Only an audit of the actual ballots will uncover it...and that is difficult to obtain, and if you do they will only do a few precincts not the whole thing.

The computer whether it is a touch screen or a scanner makes election fraud child's play.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
41. I'm fine with this. The paper ballots are there to be counted and to verify.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:06 PM
Jun 2016

The scanner allows for speed and immediate results. The paper ballots allow for accurate, verifiable results.

Since the scanner checks for voter errors on ballots, too, the paper ballots should be well-organized, practically error free, and easily read and counted.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
69. There is no verification unless you count them by hand.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 10:17 PM
Jun 2016

And you will need a court order to do that...and probable cause.

The scanner may check for errors on the ballot but no one checks for "errors" in the program that counts and totals the vote.
And any programer could write a program to say something like, if candidate A is less than candidate B, add vote A to B and when percentage reaches X stop.
And if you can't look at the code no one would ever know.

If fast is what you want then you will get it, but it don't mean it is not rigged.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
129. I'm fine with this, too. That's a legal issue, not a technical issue. The ballots would be there for
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:43 PM
Jun 2016

the counting. If you want a law to make counting the paper ballots, required, in all elections, I'm fine with that. And the computer tally would *still* be there for redundancy.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
31. Exactly. Those touchscreens need to go away forever.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:49 PM
Jun 2016

And I say this from the perspective of a computer engineer.

downeastdaniel

(497 posts)
26. Gee, we've know this crap especially during 2000 and 2004 prez elections..so why not just use paper?
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jun 2016

Answer: Both Parties act like there's no problem, and of course there is and it has disastrous results...we need to change the system...

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
27. ROFLMAO, okay, all 7,905 vote Michael got.. Bernie can have.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:32 PM
Jun 2016

That gives you what? A 0.25 delagate gain?

You know the story about the boy who cried wolf? If Hillary really has the super powers to swing elections, I guess there's nothing for ya'll to worry about with regards to her winning in November.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
43. ROFLMAO
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:15 PM
Jun 2016

Yes, it's all just a big joke, isn't it?

When the Hill's in the house.... we can all go back to our complacency. She's got this! Even if she was voted "most untrustworthy".

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
45. Yes. This is a pathetic attempt at a joke.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:29 PM
Jun 2016

Worse, it cheapens actual disenfranchisement like Arizona and Brooklyn.

renate

(13,776 posts)
35. this really pisses me off. People stand in line for hours to cast their one single vote
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:55 PM
Jun 2016

Of course mistakes due to touch-screens are worse the more often they happen, but it's completely unacceptable that it happens at all. And that's not even addressing the susceptibility of vote-counting to hacking. It's just absurd that the United States of America, a country that thinks it's entitled to get all judgy about other countries' elections, can't get it right.

And this has been going on for YEARS. There has been plenty of time to either get rid of this kind of voting or get it right. It's completely unacceptable in a country where "one person, one vote" is (supposed to be) a bedrock of our society.

allinthegame

(132 posts)
50. So
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:50 PM
Jun 2016

Use the absentee ballot...no standing in line...no computer muck-ups....
Just get it in before Election Day.

renate

(13,776 posts)
61. lucky me--I live in Oregon :)
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:29 PM
Jun 2016

Voting literally could not be easier--the ballot comes in the mail, you go over the voter's pamphlet at your leisure, and mail the ballot in or drop it off. I really wish everybody was as fortunate as we are here.

PatrickforO

(14,558 posts)
51. This, and many other 'incidents' are troubling.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:52 PM
Jun 2016

The AP announcement on the eve of the CA primary, for instance.

But our guy is going to meet with Obama tomorrow. As much a gentleman as he's been, I fully expect that he'll get behind Clinton and add a powerful voice to President Obama and Senator Elizabeth Warren.

See, as bummed as I am about Bernie losing, we did not lose. These politicians are now discussing how to mitigate wealth inequality, relieving student debt, improving healthcare, and other things that would genuinely make our lives better. Obama just came out with the idea we should EXPAND Social Security! He WAS ready to put it on the table for the so-called 'grand bargain.'

Bernie's really done some good.

LibDemAlways

(15,139 posts)
55. Yes, Bernie's ideas are great and they'll be about
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:06 PM
Jun 2016

as welcome at the platform committee as telemarketer calls at dinnertime.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
52. This is where if whoever wins complains in November
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 07:55 PM
Jun 2016

Hey we warned you in March on forward. If you didn't listen we can't help that.

SmittynMo

(3,544 posts)
62. This is a calibration problem
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:31 PM
Jun 2016

Odds are the machine was serviced and the screen was not re-calibrated. Very easy oversight, but then if testing was done, they certainly would have caught this.

still_one

(92,061 posts)
84. or defective, and I would hope they informed the poll worker, and they took the machine out of
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:16 AM
Jun 2016

service.

kadaholo

(304 posts)
63. Just Realized...
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:32 PM
Jun 2016

...the programmer forgot the last command on this machine which would have hidden all flipping from the voter. LOL!

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
65. Not saying it has been done, but it sure could be.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 09:14 PM
Jun 2016

HAVA was a scam.

Paper ballots, hand counted at the precinct level, with a webcam watching. Results posted on the door, and a photo of same posted on the web, before the ballot box leaves.

Rafale

(291 posts)
71. Good thing these machines can't be hacked, right?
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 10:47 PM
Jun 2016

I mean who would hack them. Computers are completely secure. Well except for OPM, oh and United Airlines. And Target, and the Federal Reserve. Oh and. Ugh. Never mind. Gotta pee. This could take all night listing exceptions.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
72. Except this CA county uses paper ballots and optical scanners.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:35 PM
Jun 2016

See the orange box that says "Alameda County"? You can see a demonstration of Alameda County's optical scanning system on its election's website here. (The second video, where it says "Voting System Demonstration.&quot

http://www.acgov.org/rov/videos.htm

It looks nothing like the touchscreen device shown in the video.

And this is a 2011 video showing Alameda employees getting training on the machine.



So this doesn't make sense.

still_one

(92,061 posts)
78. Do you notice how you are being ignored? Since what you are stating doesn't fit their narrative,
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:59 PM
Jun 2016

they don't want to hear it. However, let's assume the machine was used.

The video doesn't show what happened if you try to select Hillary Clinton. Would touching Hillary's name have selected Fuente?

It's possible the touch screen was not calibrated properly and the same would probably happen to each candidate you try to select. However, it could also be a defective machine. Was the machine taking out of service? Was the problem reported by the voter?

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
103. A lot of us Sanders supporters have the majority of the Clinton supporters on ignore
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:40 AM
Jun 2016

(and vice-versa) so her posts are probably just not being seen. I took all the Clintonians off ignore just 2 or 3 weeks ago. It may take many SBS supporters a lot longer to do so, if at all.


 

OldRedneck

(1,397 posts)
80. I'd like to see more
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:01 AM
Jun 2016

I'm on the electoral board of a rural Virginia county.

We got rid of our touch-screen machines last year. However, while we were still using them, at every election, we always had a problem with at least one machine -- either the machine would not accept a vote, or, it would do what this one is doing.

Every time a machine did something like this, the voter IMMEDIATELY called it to the attention of one of our poll workers. We call the machine out of action, issue the voter a paper ballot, seal the machine, and remove it from the polling.

After the election, when the techs check out the bad machine, we always found it was either:
-- slipped out of calibration
-- user error (long fingernail hits the button above your choice; voter doesn't firmly touch button, punches screen again, this time missing the button for their choice; voter drags their finger across the screen instead of tapping the button).

I have another question about the video. Why is the VOTE BY MAIL BALLOTS ballot box sitting on the floor next to the machine? Why wouldn't vote-by-mail ballots go to the registrar's office by mail? Do people bring their vote-by-mail ballots to the polling place for deposit? If so, it seems to me proper polling place layout would have that box located somewhere else, so you don't have people voting at the machine while someone else is elbowing their way past to cast a mail-in ballot.

Something's fishy here and it's more than the performance of the machine.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
81. And the other thing that's fishy?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:08 AM
Jun 2016

The vote-by-mail ballots in that county -- Alameda co, as identified by the box on the floor -- are processed by optical scan machines.

The same machines that the county elections website says is what they use in their elections.
See the second video, where it says "Voting System Demonstration."

http://www.acgov.org/rov/videos.htm





still_one

(92,061 posts)
82. That is exactly right. What would have happened if Hillary was selected, would it select Fuente?
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:13 AM
Jun 2016

If the machine was defective, or the touch screen not calibrated properly, was this reported, and the machine taken out of service? None of this is made cleared.

All your points are excellent.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
102. Yes, voters can bring their mail in ballots to their precint voting center on election day
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 04:33 AM
Jun 2016

and drop them in the box. This might be a warehouse that CA state uses to check election equipment from various counties or a distribution center. It is almost certainly not a voter on election day in this video.

JohnnyRingo

(18,618 posts)
87. Hahahaha
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:33 AM
Jun 2016

I know you don't mean it, but that's funny.

I think the video is a scam anyway. It's just too perfect how he walks up to the machine, cell phone in hand, and twice pushes for Bernie. Obviously it's a misaligned screen that would have been caught immediately by anyone with half a brain and one eye.

To imagine this would have fooled thousands upon thousands of voters really sells Sanders' voters short on intellectual awareness.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
89. I agree. Also, the box of mail-in ballots says its Alameda Co, Ca.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:50 AM
Jun 2016

And that county's website says it uses paper ballots and optical scanner machines.

On the county elections website, you can see a demonstration of their optical scanning system here. (The second video, where it says "Voting System Demonstration.&quot

http://www.acgov.org/rov/videos.htm

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
106. Oh, for fuck's sake. This is clearly a simple technical malfunction.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 05:24 AM
Jun 2016

You never had that problem? Seriously? This is a well-known issue with aged touchscreens.

So, if you tip on Bernie, the mark goes to the candidate above Bernie. Why didn't this imbecile try tipping on the guy BELOW Bernie and see what happens?
"Oh No! The touchscreen falsely alocates votes to Bernie Sanders!"




This whole video is so ridiculous, words fail.

progressoid

(49,945 posts)
111. Yeah, my old phone did this too.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 06:47 AM
Jun 2016

Had a hell of a time getting the 'period' to work.

And it looks like this one has already been pulled from use.

JohnnyRingo

(18,618 posts)
126. Even more amazing...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 03:25 PM
Jun 2016

...is that some here think thousands would not have noticed and cast their ballot anyway. It's a pretty obvious glitch and unless someone were texting and checking their email while looking around the room they would have caught it and alerted the poll workers. If they didn't the next person would have.

Anyone who didn't see such a stark error probably didn't care who they voted for anyway.

This was probably just a poll worker checking a malfunctioning screen on a machine that was already out of service... Or what many call widespread fraud by Hillary. hahaha

Gamecock Lefty

(700 posts)
114. Why is it . . .
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:13 AM
Jun 2016

When Bernie loses a state he said he was going to win (and there are lots) there were voting machine shenanigans but when he wins – “hey, all these voting machines performed perfectly?”

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
120. You seem to have forgotten all the screams of election fraud
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:00 PM
Jun 2016

over the Iowa caucuses.

And all the screams over the Nevada caucuses.

And in my Washington caucus, the Bernie poll-watcher was so sure there would be fraud, he was telling everyone to take a photo of our ballots on our phones.

I hate caucuses because they require hours of time, are non-representative, and non-inclusive.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
121. It's obviously miscalibrated....
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 01:14 PM
Jun 2016

I would assume there is a calibration proceedure. Not trying to defend Ms. Clinton here but I suspect other votes would have been missed by this machine. The correct procedure would be to immediately draw it to the poll worker's attention.

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