Why Electronic Voting Is a BAD Idea - Computerphile

[Old Crow]

Not a new video (first published in December 2014), but worth viewing now if you're interested in the integrity of U.S. elections (both the primaries and the general).

[Old Crow]

1. Okay, I'll comment on my own post.

As an IT professional who designs software for a living, I find it disturbing that 26 people have viewed this video and only one--one--thought the subject was important enough to warrant a recommendation.

We're fucked.

[Dustlawyer]

11. K&R! William Spoonamore, a Republican who has designed and works to protect credit cards,

has commented on this in much more detail years ago. The two RW born again brothers that came up with the first electronic voting machine in the late 70's asked Spoonamore and a couple of others to see if they could hack it. Took only 30 minutes. These brothers founded Diebold and now one other big company in this area whose name escapes me.

He talks about a King computer that was used to rig W's first Presidential election. It was based in TN., and had ties to Bush/Rove's IT guy who died in a mysterious small plane crash days before he was to give testimony. Not making this shite up, check it and Spoonamore out!

[Old Crow]

14. Thank you!

I had forgotten--somehow!--about the story of Mike Connell. As you state, he was the Republican IT guru who was about to expose electronic election fraud when his life came to an abrupt end under suspicious circumstances. Thanks for the reminder.

Here's Amy Goodman of Democracy Now! covering the story (two parts).

[Dustlawyer]

19. Just checked out your screen name, Old Crow is what I used to call my grandfather when

I was little.

[Old Crow]

22. LOL! Well, I hope you meant it in a Pickwickian sense.

I am certain it was because he radiated wisdom and intelligence. Either that or he drank a lot of Kentucky bourbon.

[Dustlawyer]

24. Neither, Crow was his last name and I guess someone told me to put "Old"in front of it!

[Old Crow]

25. LOL! The nickname "Old Crow" would be too good for anyone to resist, I think.

Thanks for sharing that story.

Another story: There's a restored P-51 Mustang named "OLD CROW" that's pretty famous on the airshow circuit. At one of these shows, the owner was showered with compliments by a gushing fan, who loved the name, and thought it was a wonderful tribute to an underrated bird with remarkable intelligence. Recalling this, the owner said he just nodded silently and didn't have the heart to confess that he was simply a fan of the bourbon.

[pansypoo53219]

2. dr who in the 70's showed this was a bad idea.

also did entropy.

[Old Crow]

3. Interesting.

I'm not a fan of either show (assuming "Entropy" is a show?), but I know there a lots of Dr. Who fans out there, so that's encouraging if the show has covered the topic.

I particularly liked this video because the creators of this series--Computerphile--could never be accused of being anti-technology. Like me, they love computers. They're also in a position to understand just how inappropriate they are when it comes to processing the data that are an election's votes.

[silvershadow]

4. What we need is one more good whistleblower. nt

[Old Crow]

5. I hope that's the case.

A couple observations relative to that thought, though.

First, I thought this video did a good job of explaining how difficult it is to conceal election fraud when paper ballots are used (because of the large number of people who would have to participate in the fraud) and how easy it is to conceal when electronic voting is used (because tens of thousands--even millions--of votes can be manipulated by a single person).

Second, I'm not certain that another whistleblower will do the trick. There is an abundance of evidence out there already that election fraud has been occurring with electronic voting machines. Problem is, most of the public doesn't want to think about it, let alone do anything about it. I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps it's because it's too painful to acknowledge that our elections have been and are being violated. Rather than confront that disturbing truth, many seem to choose to put the entire issue out of mind.

[felix_numinous]

6. Black box voting killed democracy

we lost control of our elections, and lost control of who gets voted in. We lucked out having a landslide with Obama, but for these closer races it is very easy to flip votes undetected.

I truly wish someone could post Dan Rather's documentary (I can't) on the scapegoating of the paper company that was blamed for the 2000 hanging chads, the paper was fraudulently switched so the punch machines couldn't work. Otherwise the system had enough checks and balances that could be seen and touched by hand that the margin of error was a lot less. Of course Bush couldn't have that, and machines were quickly installed.

It seems to me that this system could be temporarily revived, the equipment likely still exists somewhere. It worked for many years in this country, and there is no good reason it was replaced by machines. These people were very proud of their work.

[Old Crow]

26. Thanks for the tip, Felix. I found the Dan Rather video...

... and have posted it here.

[felix_numinous]

27. Old Crow!!

Thank you!!!!

[Stevepol]

7. The switch to computers to count votes was the death knell for democracy in the US

There is overwhelming evidence for election fraud, that is, that the machines are stealing elections all over the country. There is absolutely no evidence, not one shred of evidence for voter fraud, the kind that supposedly requires a voter ID to make sure it doesn't take place. In fact one recent study looked at millions of elections over a period of time and fount 9 cases of what "might" have been voter fraud, where a voter impersonates another voter.

But let's take the ongoing Dem primary and in particular the results in MA. The Sane Progressive (Deborah Lusignan) is indignant about this as she should be. She interviews John Brakey, who is involved in a law suit challenging the results of the AZ caucuses, except that his case is based on the unreliability of the electronic voting machines, the ease with which they can be hacked or maliciously programmed. He just mentions in passing, during his long description of his law suit, that in the precincts in MA which REFUSE TO USE THE VOTING MACHINES (I think he said about 2.7% of the precincts in MA) Bernie won by 17%. I don't know what the odds would be of that result happening, but I'm sure it's astronomical, way beyond comprehension, probably something like 1 chance in a million. BTW that sample (2.7% or whatever figure Brakey gave) is a good sample of MA voters according to Jon Simon in CODE RED.

The shame of it is that MA has the paper to conduct a complete recount. They use only opti-scans and retain the paper ballots for audits or recounts.

I would wager every penny I have in the bank (if I knew there would be fair recount of the paper) that Bernie won MA and by a comfortable margin. Here for those interested is the interview between Deborah and Brakey:

[Enthusiast]

9. Some people are very fond of election fraud.

[Old Crow]

15. Thanks for the interesting post and video.

I hadn't seen the video before. The portion where Brakey talks about the different results in Massachusetts, when comparing precincts that didn't use electronic voting machinces versus those that did, begins at around 14:50.

[Enthusiast]

8. Kicked and recommended!

[ReasonableToo]

10. and it is relatively easy to make the paper ballots quick and verifiable.

1. election day needs to be a holiday so that people can volunteer to work the voting locations.
2. pencil-marked paper ballots - fed into readers that spit out a paper receipt of results
3. results go to state level in a way that precinct workers can verify their results show on state level.
4.people representing more then one party open at least 5% of boxes and tally results to make sure they match. (video taped). If the vote is off at all then all are opened and counted by hand.
5. precincts are small enough that all votes can be hand-counted in a certain time period.
6. if the margin of victory is within 5% then all votes hand counted
7. If the results don't match exit polling, then all votes hand counted
8. people will work even if it's a holiday. no worker can be scheduled for more than 5 hours on election day.
9. results not certified until any necessary hand counts happen
10. TV with video running about voter rights and recourse so if anything happens, people state-wide have the same information about rules, provisional ballots, etc.

[Old Crow]

16. All are good and sensible ideas.

Honestly, I think we could do worse than to simply adopt, wholesale, the practice employed within the UK where paper ballots are hand counted on open tables with people from all the different parties present.

The argument that this approach is too labor-intensive is idiotic. Nothing is more important to the democracy (what we have left of it) than the correct counting of votes. All that would be required is to ensure there is at least one person counting votes from each of the major parties for every 500 or so voters. We're the richest country on Earth and yet somehow we can't make this happen.

[antigop]

12. That's pretty good, but he missed a couple of things...

1) It doesn't have to be nefarious. Programmers make mistakes. The code could have errors simply because the programmer didn't write the program correctly.

2) The ballots are one thing. He didn't mention the digitized voter registration files. Anyone who has access to those files can delete people and poof! they aren't in the system. Or their registration can be changed. It's not just the e-voting machines for casting ballots. It's who has access to the voter registration files.

eta: I have programmed for a living.

[Old Crow]

18. Both are good points. Thank you! (N/T)

[Equinox Moon]

13. My State uses paper ballots fed into a machine that tally's

Guess what?

We never have any problems. If a count is in dispute, the votes are just re-counted by hand.

[Old Crow]

17. You're lucky. I wish all states used paper ballots.

In fact, I wish we'd adopt the UK procedures and use simple paper ballots on which you pencil in an 'X'. Once the voting's over, the ballots are hand-counted (no technology, electronic or otherwise, allowed) on open tables in front of representatives of all the major parties.

[Equinox Moon]

20. My State also has mail-in absentee ballots for ANY reason

And, my State does not require us to declare a party - at any point - ever. We can register to vote at the polls or at the caucus. AND you can vote with someone vouching for your identity!!! A neighbor or a utility bill. No voter id crap. We have one of the highest voter turn-outs in the country and our State is consistently considered a Blue State.

We have open voting and open caucus. Bernie won in my State! He would win in many more if the voting was open!

It is called DEMOCRACY.

But, in my State almost all the SuperD's are for HRC. About 5 of them are for Bernie.

[Old Crow]

21. Go, you guys!

What state are you in, if I may ask?

I'm in Pennsylvania and cast my vote for Bernie today on an electronic, paperless machine. I'd rate my confidence in my vote being correctly tallied in the final results at about 60%, meaning I think there's a 40% chance that my vote will go to Hillary Clinton. With no paper ballots, no paper trail, and no way to verify anything, why WOULDN'T my vote be tampered with?

This idiocy has to stop.

[Equinox Moon]

23. Sounds like YOU need to lead the Voting Rights for Pennslvania

It takes consistent action.

Have you been following Brad Friedman? He has a progressive radio program that airs daily across the country. He is a leader in Voter Rights and has been recommended for a Pulitzer.

He is awesome! He inspires others to pick up the torch for Voter Rights and educates about it.

http://www.bradblog.com/