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Programmer Testifies About Rigging Elections With Vote Counting Machines (Original Post) Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 OP
Is this the man that died in a small plane crash or am I confusing whistleblowers? Mnemosyne Jul 2015 #1
I believe you're thinking of Michael Connell... Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 #2
A FLA Dept. of Transportation investigator was apparently suicided. Peace Patriot Jul 2015 #6
spoke with clint ellennelle Jul 2015 #27
When was this testimony? Recent?? n/t napi21 Jul 2015 #3
Not recent. Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 #4
WHY? (Please see Reply 7) merrily Jul 2015 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author elleng Jul 2015 #5
Was this Waxman's committee, circa 2007? If so, I remember the coverage at the time. merrily Jul 2015 #7
That Dem leadership didn't address this in early 2009 is, IMHO, damning. Scuba Jul 2015 #11
Let's just say bipartisanship can be carried a tad too far for this American voter. merrily Jul 2015 #12
What in the fuck is going on with this country? Enthusiast Jul 2015 #23
That Dem leadership did not address the 2000 election thief or the 2004 election thief rhett o rick Jul 2015 #35
Very good question. Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 #16
I think we can do something about this one. merrily Jul 2015 #17
I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know Boston... Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 #19
Nothing to be embarrassed about. I have no clue which places have paper ballots, other than my own. merrily Jul 2015 #21
I agree. Especially with the following. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #24
After the Democratic Party acquired a majority I found it incredulous that Enthusiast Jul 2015 #22
karennj, perhaps Kerry's biggest supporter on this board, once posted that his people thought he merrily Jul 2015 #25
Very puzzling indeed. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #26
How can we go about doing this?........... imari362 Apr 2016 #38
I don't recall ever feeling more frustrated... Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 #29
That was a low point. Unfortunately nothing has changed. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #30
Something WAS DONE, WE BUSTED OUR ASS! It was called HR811 ViseGrip Apr 2016 #39
WOWZA. Where to begin? merrily Apr 2016 #41
My interview with a Diebold whistleblower on how they stole elections: Liberty Belle Jul 2015 #9
+1 Good reminder that losing voting machines is something we can work for on state and local levels. merrily Jul 2015 #13
I think you're right. This is a problem... Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 #20
The fact that at least a few upper level execs... Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 #18
The real division is between the HAVES and HAVE-NOTS, not between Republicans and Democrats. GoneFishin Jul 2015 #10
Yes. And this why I think of people who bray about Nader and "Lefties" costing elections djean111 Jul 2015 #14
Yeah, but Lamont probably would have voted with the Democratic Caucus. merrily Jul 2015 #15
^^^ THIS ^^^ cantbeserious Jul 2015 #37
Put the programmer to the test, voting machines have been tested in the past and the person was Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #28
yep Jess25 Jul 2015 #31
Welcome to DU Jess25 Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2015 #32
Why is it not illegal . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #33
Because the vendor's software code is proprietary vendor information. ViseGrip Apr 2016 #40
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #34
Looking at this thread, Sen Sander's supporters are more interested in this rhett o rick Jul 2015 #36

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
2. I believe you're thinking of Michael Connell...
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 01:32 AM
Jul 2015

...who was reported to have perished in a small plane crash that he was supposedly flying solo. The story surrounding that event was sufficiently bizarre and seemingly always changing -- I was never sure what to make of it.

Here's a link to the story:

http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/the-mysterious-death-of-bushs


Here's the Wiki entry for Clinton Curtis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
6. A FLA Dept. of Transportation investigator was apparently suicided.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 02:22 AM
Jul 2015

This was Raymond Lemme, to whom Clint Curtis (the testifier in the vid) had talked about planned voting machine programming code fraud in West Palm Beach, FLA--allegations that involved Republican Congressman Tom Feeney, the FLA Dept. of Transportation and Yang Enterprises in this and other corruption crimes.

Curtis is the programmer speaking in the vid at the Conyers election fraud hearings in Dec. 2004 (after the Bush Junta stole their second election).

As far as I know, Clint Curtis--an attorney, computer programmer, and former NASA and Exxon Mobil employee--is still alive. According to wiki, he ran for Congress as a Democrat in California in 2010 but lost to the incumbent, far rightwing Republican Tom McClintock.

I looked all this up in wiki cuz it's been a long time--11 years--since that horrible year, 2004.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis

Curtis speaks the truth about the election theft machines that were spread like a plague across our land during the 2002 to 2004 period, and that ARE STILL DETERMINING OUR ELECTIONS. Nothing has changed. In fact, things are a lot worse now.

ellennelle

(614 posts)
27. spoke with clint
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:35 AM
Jul 2015

in 2010 during his campaign! i was in CA on vacation at tahoe, and learned of his run, so called his campaign office to see if it was the same clint curtis of FL election fraud whistleblowing. he was so gracious, and grateful anyone knew about that and respected its importance.

meanwhile, back at the congressional coup, they're now fielding testimony from wing nuts who've spliced and diced video footage to take down planned parenthood the way they did ACORN. we're so screwed.

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
4. Not recent.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 01:48 AM
Jul 2015

I think this testimony goes back about 10 years. It got little media attention at the time and there is
every reason to believe the problem has only become much much worse since.

Response to Mr_Jefferson_24 (Original post)

merrily

(45,251 posts)
7. Was this Waxman's committee, circa 2007? If so, I remember the coverage at the time.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 03:27 AM
Jul 2015

Here's the real question for us: WHY was nothing done about this testimony after it was given? Not in 2007, when Democrats controlled both houses, and not in 2009, when they had even stronger majorities in both houses?

I don't even think writing and selling software that could throw an election was outlawed.

Even if it was a cloture issue, why not at least make headlines about how Republicans blocked election clean up? WHY?

For that matter, after whining about two allegedly stolen Presidential elections in a row, why wasn't a bill ready to pass as soon as Democrats saw the November 2008 election results? Isn't the vote really the ONLY voice the people have? The only real representation we get? What everything else in our alleged democratic system supposedly depends upon?

I don't care how many days people want to say we had a Democratic Senate caucus of 60 before Kennedy passed, the very first day we had 60, a Democratic Congress should have been ready to pass a clean elections bill--or, at the very least, least a bill saying any clean elections bill passed during that Congress would not need more than a 51 percent majority. Or SOMETHING. WHY did nothing like that happen?

Do we prefer whining about allegedly stolen elections to doing something about them? If so, WHY?

Do we prefer blaming Republicans allegedly stealing elections, liberals allegedly staying home and alleged failure of rank and file Dems to GOTV to actually doing something about a clean vote?

And if we do nothing, who the fuck cares if we whine?

ETA: I just stumbled upon this thread while searching DU for a post by Zorra about, of all things, Benie's hair:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026402768#post49

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
35. That Dem leadership did not address the 2000 election thief or the 2004 election thief
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:00 PM
Jul 2015

should raise some interest. As long as the Oligarchs are happy, the Dem leadership is happy.

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
16. Very good question.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:20 AM
Jul 2015

Sadly, the fact that there has been no major investigation spearheaded by the Democratic Party aimed at rooting out election theft via software, which makes stealing elections easy and undetectable, leads me to believe our two party system is actually one big corporate party designed to give us the illusion of choice (not a particularly popular opinion here, I know).

The GOP has evolved into a truly fanatical group which, in my opinion, could never gain the level of representation they currently enjoy in both the House and Senate with honest, open, and fair elections. The highest levels of the Democratic Party should've been screaming bloody murder about this since 2000.

There are of course other things, such as the influence of big money, which make getting the best candidates elected extremely difficult.

We now have an entrenched, systemic problem with the use of these easily rigged voting machines, and I don't think it's an exaggeration to say it spells death to any chance for a truly democratic electoral process in the US.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
17. I think we can do something about this one.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:26 AM
Jul 2015

I live in Boston, which is not a small city. It went to paper ballots for the Presidential of 2004 and everthing went fine.

There must be books about how best to achieve clean elections that we can ingest and then lobby from there. Please see Reply 13.

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
19. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know Boston...
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:54 AM
Jul 2015

...had done that. That is a very hopeful sign that this may not be as insurmountable as it seems.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
24. I agree. Especially with the following.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:22 AM
Jul 2015
"The GOP has evolved into a truly fanatical group which, in my opinion, could never gain the level of representation they currently enjoy in both the House and Senate with honest, open, and fair elections."

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
22. After the Democratic Party acquired a majority I found it incredulous that
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:17 AM
Jul 2015

the problems of the questionable 2,000 and 2,004 election results were not addressed. I shared your reaction. This has never been answered to my satisfaction.

One question has been answered for certain, however. When exit polls do not match vote tallies clearly someone has tampered with the results. To my understanding this was the case with the 2,004 election in Ohio. Exit polls were wildly different that the vote count.

I want to say something else about the 2,004 presidential election.

I have never before witnessed such support for a candidate in Ohio as I witnessed for candidate John Kerry. People in my area had their yards absolutely filled with Kerry signs.

Where ordinarily one would see about a 50/50 Democratic/Republican yard sign frequency, in 2004 you had to hunt for a Dubya sign. That alone convinces me that something big happened to skew the election results.

And nothing was done about it.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
25. karennj, perhaps Kerry's biggest supporter on this board, once posted that his people thought he
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:26 AM
Jul 2015

lost. I wish I could find the post.

I think that, like Bubba, Kerry wanted to be President since he first saw JFK. He was so elated earlier in the day, so down that night. And, he had the resources for a legal fight. Why he did fight if he thought he had won is a mystery. And his stated reason, about not wanting to look like a bad sport? wtf? What about his donors, his volunteers, his voters? Did he really think he had the right not to context because he might not look like a good sport?

Very puzzling



And then, there was that bit when Carville called his wife in Cheney's office to say Kerry was going to contest Ohio, and then, no contest.

We should petition the UN for observers at our elections and embarrass the hell out of both major parties.

imari362

(311 posts)
38. How can we go about doing this?...........
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 09:29 PM
Apr 2016
"We should petition the UN for observers at our elections and embarrass the hell out of both major parties."

Also, doesn't President Carter have or work with an agency that monitors elections? As far as I know it only monitors international elections but him being so involved with fairness in the process abroad it seems to be a good idea to ask/petition for his/agency help here at home.

Election fraud in the U.S. really ticks me off, no matter who is doing it

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
29. I don't recall ever feeling more frustrated...
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:41 AM
Jul 2015

...with our government, political system, the FBI, and especially our so called "Fourth Estate" than I was after the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections, waiting for mainstream print and TV media to blow the lid off those blatant thefts, and anticipating watching responsible persons being frogmarched off to jail by the FBI, and then having to come to the depressing realization that none of it was going to happen.



 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
39. Something WAS DONE, WE BUSTED OUR ASS! It was called HR811
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 09:58 PM
Apr 2016

The bill was sponsored by Rep. Rush Holt of N.J., to have states using electronic voting equipment, to conduct an audit of 3% of precincts. This is done by hand counting paper ballots in precincts, and comparing to the electronic totals. That would ensure approximately 68-70% of vote accuracy. You know the winner. Three percent does not cause the states to hire more help to conduct these audits. It's hard to get a mandate across the board if it cost the local municipalities more money.

What happened to this bill? This bill was so popular on DU, that is where it grew it's legs across the country. So....the elite were wondering WTF was going on and what was driving this bill?

They heard, well it's Florida! They had touchscreen voting machines, election anomalies everywhere, every every election since 2002 after the 2000 mess, still had NO paper trail!!

So....the powers to be had the Florida governor hurry up and give them back their paper ballots, to be 'scanned, as the rest of the states'. Remember, these ballots with chads and electronic voting machines went to the democratic counties, that STILL had a VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOT. Now gone.

The fight is not finished in Florida though. I'm afraid the Governor Charlie Crist, who was a republican and now running as a DEM for congress, gave the voters their paper, but put in the statue that the audit would be a 'post certification audit', of 1-2% of precincts. (not enough, only verifying 46-48% of the vote! They do this AFTER they announce a winner and CERTIFY IT. THEN THEY CHECK THE VOTE!) But, it's just a dog and pony show, it's not even checking enough precincts, only verifying 46-489% if the vote!)

Then Charlie Crist changed the states 100 year recount of 1% needed, to 1/10 of 1%. That ensures you pay for your own recount.

The statute is something like this: The State will certify the electronic totals, and the paper ballots WILL BE STORED FOR RECOUNT PURPOSES ONLY! Then he narrowed the recount window for candidates. He put in 1-2% when we needed three to BE SURE THE ELECTION IS TRUE. It's a fucking audit! So the voting machines and methods are the same. Nothing has changed.

But don't make OP's with assumptions that nothing was done, and the sour grape people whine, and don't do anything. Democrats in the house fought this! The guy they got to put the screws to FLA is not running as a fucking democrat, for congress. After he signed the bill giving back the paper, that was the sexy part of our work, and everyone went away, as I knew would happen. It can be fixed but only county by county in that state. We went to lobby in DC, we did hacking demos for house members. Yeah, that's our work. The hero of our group, he still testifies in court challenges, is an elections officers in Leon County Fla. He's an independent. He wanted to PROGRAM HIS OWN MEMORY CARD, AGAINST OUR FEDERAL LAW. You, me, our electeds are not allowed to look at the software, to make sure it's programmed to count correctly. He refused the pre programmed memory cards, and they threatened him with jail! He held his wrists out, and they decided instead of letting every know what it's about (vote counting software), don't arrest him and make noise, and let him have his cards. So....they're having real elections. in Leon County FL. Then Sarasota County had one of the great activists who led a petition for her county to have a FIVE PERCENT AUDIT! HA! Fuck the 3%! The sigs got it on the ballot and it PASSED! They are also having fair elections verified too. Too bad it's a republican county! They signed the petition and voted for it though. So, if we could just get to the democratic counties. But it's a lot of work. Florida got their ballot, but it's not counted yet. It's still the same electronic tabulation, and the 'vendor software is proprietary information'. We're tired after all these years. But nope, nothing has been done. California took care of the problem back then. Susan Davis and Zoe Loftgren. Heroes. But dems win there overwhelmingly. But, they still check the vote!

So here is the history, after the Conyers Committe in Oh, and the hearing in 2007, nothing was done. Feinstein sent her aide at the senate bldg to 'meet us out of the office' in the bldg. and this guy acted shit scared to meet us, when we gave them the DVD of the hack test, they missed. Also scared....was Tubb Jones, who was later found dead on the side of the road. Heart attack or something. It's all bad. But the people have done so much to fight this. Understand every cycle voters die, and new voters register. How many cycles since this work? With Obama we had 8 years of not worrying about the election, but worrying more about his conservative policies, and his constant capitulation to the republicans. So it looks to me they install whoever they want. who will continue their agenda, not ours.

Here we go with Hillary. Who are these people. Does Bernie Sanders actually have to put a 'fracking ban' on the democrat platform?
And why did the media build up Trump and get rid of anyone actually qualified and then turn around and smear him? To leave nothing in Hillary's way? I see all the ways they make it look like we're having an election. And this one is the most telling, of all to this day.

http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=4&id=36&Itemid=371

So there ya go! A little more history, you could have found right here on DU!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
41. WOWZA. Where to begin?
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:58 AM
Apr 2016

Let's get non-substantive technicalities out of the way at the outset, just for ships and grins: Your Reply 39 is to a post I made last July. Yesterday, I linked to my July reply on this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1091&pid=1916 Replying to me yesterday on yesterday's thread would have made infinitely more sense than replying to a post on a July 2015 thread. Also, contrary to your Reply 39 on a July thread, my July post was a reply, not an OP.

Both in July and yesterday, my post was about Congress's not having gotten rid of voting machines or ensured checking of source code. That was clear from both the context of the threads in which my post (or a link to it) appeared and from the contents of the post itself. My post never even obliquely referred to a bill about "an audit of 3% of precincts: that is "done by hand counting paper ballots in precincts, and comparing to the electronic totals, which supposedly ensures "approximately 68-70% of vote accuracy" which Congress failed to pass in any event. Nor did I post a thing about Florida or California. Yet, you berated me at length for failing to mention the work done in Florida and California and the work done to fail to pass an audit bill in Congress, which my post had less than zero reason to mention. (As an aside about audits, +hand counts were done in some Massachusetts precincts in connection with the recent primary, no thanks to the U.S. Congress. However, while the hand counts (like the exit polls), favored Sanders, Clinton was declared the winner and that has not changed, so ..... )

FYI: I do not equate Congress's not passing a bill with Congress's fixing any problem to any degree. That being so, I have no clue why you or anyone else would reasonably expect anyone to google anything before "daring" to post that Congress did nothing about either doing away voting machines or ensuring the source code of voting machines would be checked. That is so clear no one would google it, let alone spend the time required to check every hit such a google would turn up.

My post was correct as to what it stated. Also correct, according to your own Reply 39: Despite all the whining about stolen elections, esp. Presidential elections, Congress took no action between January 2007 and January 2011 that has made stealing elections any harder---and here we are at another Presidential election. Not that Presidential elections are not the only important elections that took place between January 2007 and January 2011. The Massachusetts special election that put Scott Brown in the Senate in 2010, before the ACA was finally adopted, is only one such election that leaps to the mind of this Bostonian. I have no clue why you assert that having a Democratic president in office for the past almost 8 years meant we did not have to worry about voting machines in 50 states.

You seem to have taken my (correct) July post reply incredibly personally. I have no idea why. Nothing about saying Congress failed to fix the problem insulted you or anyone else personally, unless maybe you were Speaker at the time in question--and even then.... However, because of the nature of your post, I really don't care to continue this discussion further, especially on thread from last July. Bottom line: we are still in the same boat in which we were in 2000 and and we did not need to be.


Liberty Belle

(9,534 posts)
9. My interview with a Diebold whistleblower on how they stole elections:
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 04:09 AM
Jul 2015
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Diebold_insider__alleges_company_plagued_1206.html
Days after this ran, shareholders sued Diebold over this scandal and the CEO resigned. They later sold off their election machines division.

I previously published this story that won a national journalism award:
http://www.sdcitybeat.com/sandiego/article-3141-monkey-business.html

Right after it ran, the Washington Post or NY Times came out with a story that slot machines were more reliable than voting machines.

My reporting helped convince CA's Sec. of State to ban the worst of these machines, though there are still many bad ones out there, and now she's no longer in office.

You should all keep talking about this and don't stop -- the issues are far from resolved, election theft is a very real concern we should all have.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
13. +1 Good reminder that losing voting machines is something we can work for on state and local levels.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:30 AM
Jul 2015

More and more, I am convinced that we cannot impact D.C. anymore on an issue by issue basis. Whatever megaphones we have will sounder at home. Five hundred thousand people in the country contacting Congress. Nothing. Five thousand people contacting a state legislature. Better. Five thousand people contacting a town hall or city hall. Likely to get someone's attention.

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
20. I think you're right. This is a problem...
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:57 AM
Jul 2015

...that needs to be ferociously attacked at the city and state levels first.

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
18. The fact that at least a few upper level execs...
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:46 AM
Jul 2015

...at Diebold didn't wind up serving lengthy prison sentences is, in my opinion, more evidence that our two party system has become little more than a puppet show for the masses offering only the illusion of choice.

From the second link you posted:

"Vote-flipping software could be designed to erase itself after election night, making it virtually untraceable, said Harris and other experts."

This I think has been going on in the US for years and now has become a systemic problem.

Excellent links. Thank you for posting them. Your national journalism award was well earned Miriam. I wish we had more journalists like you in this country.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
10. The real division is between the HAVES and HAVE-NOTS, not between Republicans and Democrats.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 04:11 AM
Jul 2015

That is why this problem is not addressed.

The single party "two-party system" serves those at the top of the food chain perfectly.

A perfect example is the Connecticut loss of Ned Lamont to Joe Lieberman. Lieberman lost to Ned Lamont in the Democratic primary, so he ran as an independent and "won". I don't believe he won, but I think Lieberman was the corporatists' golden boy.

As far as the electronic voting machine problem, I think it is only a mystery if you accept the frame that this is a Republican versus Democrat issue. If you change the frame to "insider" versus "outsider" it all becomes crystal clear.

It's about freezing out breakout candidates.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
14. Yes. And this why I think of people who bray about Nader and "Lefties" costing elections
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:30 AM
Jul 2015

as unwitting fools.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
28. Put the programmer to the test, voting machines have been tested in the past and the person was
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:40 AM
Jul 2015

given the opportunity and failed so I would like to see this proven. If there is a vulnerability expose it. If it is a CT then it can be put to bed. After showing it is possibly then we need to get a fix for the problem.

markpkessinger

(8,392 posts)
33. Why is it not illegal . . .
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 05:13 PM
Jul 2015

. . . for a company or programmer to participate in developing an application the purpose of which is to illegally interfere with elections?

 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
40. Because the vendor's software code is proprietary vendor information.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 10:06 PM
Apr 2016

Our cell phones are more protected.

Gambling in Vegas has open software codes, so they CAN LOOK THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND NIGHT! So hackers aren't winning! Gads.

Here is a link for a screen shot of the list, of protections for gambling but not for voting:
https://www.reddit.com/comments/dpnhz



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x547066

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
36. Looking at this thread, Sen Sander's supporters are more interested in this
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:06 PM
Jul 2015

subject than HRC supporters. I find that strange.

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