24 years ago: Soviet Russian troops attack Lithuania, kill unarmed civilians, as USSR crumbles

[uhnope]

Gorbachev now claims he didn't order the attack.
Putin would love to get back in there.

1991 (Wikipedia):
January 11 - Soviet forces storm Vilnius to stop Lithuanian independence.
January 13 - Soviet troops assault the Vilnius TV tower in Lithuania and kill 14 unarmed civilians; many more are injured.

Footage from documentary "Krustcels". Director: Juris Podnieks, Latvia.

Riga a few day later:

[Man from Pickens]

1. More tiresome Fascist war propaganda

No thanks. Any person with two brain cells can click on your link and find that "Putin would love to get back in there" actually means the Fascist leader of Ukraine's post-coup rump government claimed Putin said that in private conversation, even though it makes no sense whatsoever for Putin to have done so.

The irony of mentioning the USSR invading Lithuania and killing unarmed civilians to prevent independence as a means of supporting a government in Kiev which is doing exactly that in the eastern provinces is not lost, either.

[hobbit709]

2. What other magical things do you believe in?

[another_liberal]

3. Well said . . .

Just because Russia doesn't want NATO prepositioning combat troops on its border does not mean it therefore must have a desire to reoccupy its former bases in Lithuania.

[Duckhunter935]

4. well Russia has already done that once

in another country, what is to think he will not do it to another?
and NATO has invaded Russia how many times?

[another_liberal]

6. You already know we disagree on the premise of your first question . . .

As to your second: Many of the countries who are members of NATO have invaded Russia, some repeatedly (the list does include the United States, by the way). How many times has Russia invaded the United States?

[zeemike]

10. And how many times has the US instigated a coup in other countries?

The list in South America is a long one...
There seems to be a push to re ignite the cold war.

[nilesobek]

8. Amen brother.

That poster and his boring, tiresome propaganda at least deserve a facepalm.

[uhnope]

12. Because remembering history during an anniversary is such propaganda.

lol

[nilesobek]

13. For that reason you are certainly legitimate to post it.

I'm just criticizing it because you seem to really be focused on Russia in general. Do you have any other political interests? Is is rude or impolite to ask? It just seems to be one thread after another bashing Russia and I don't even know you nor have anything against you. Its not going to go unchecked in an echo chamber. People like me will respond to these threads. They might not meet the critical definition of propaganda but their pattern of use is.

[uhnope]

14. thank you for your polite inquiry

Actually, I do tend to post a lot about Russia, for two reasons: I am very concerned about Putin's increasing totalitarianism and his invasion of Ukraine, and also because there is a clear presence of Putin apologists/shills on this website.

(It's definitely not from anti-Russian sentiment; in fact, it's quite the opposite: I tend to like the Russians I have met; I am worried about the fate of the Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians I know personally; and I am dismayed about the downward slide of Russia in general.)

I would post for the first reason anyway, but the second reason keeps me active. I try to balance out the Putin apologist posts. So if they would stop, I would stop (except for actual breaking news posts and commentary).

However, I do post about other things. I would say my main interests are human rights, no matter what the country or political party. Some OPs:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026090916
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014989399
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026086115

Good?

[nilesobek]

15. All well and good and best wishes to you.

Thank you for replying and it seems to me you are not a shill and I'm sorry if I doubted that. People think that about me concerning Russia and my only interest in the situation is that my grandmother is from Northern Russia. She was originally from Canada but moved. Then later moved to the USA. I just want to see productive diplomacy. There are no issues with Russia that can't be worked out except maybe the new gay law which can only be overturned by Russians themselves. I was hoping for a better world where continental powers work together in a one world type government. Pretty naive huh? I think you are right a lot of the time especially pointing out the former republics being coveted by Moscow once again.

[newthinking]

17. If this were only really about an honest analysis /history

But the posts of the OP have a consistent agenda (as you mention) and he even mentions in a response further down that the purpose is more than historical info. So trying to pass it off as simply mentioning history is somewhat dishonest.

[uhnope]

18. ooooh

you're calling someone "somewhat dishonest"?

You don't have a totally obvious agenda which involves

[Duckhunter935]

5. yep, Russia has a history

[newthinking]

7. Yes, as does the US. But spreading fear, propaganda and innacurate information

is taking us ever farther toward perpetual world conflict.

This crap is all aimed at stirring up old fears, not at an honest assessment and analysis and intellectual look at where the world is going and what the real threats are.

If you work under neocons (who are: stupid is as stupid/violent does) or a group that makes their money off of perpetuating the situation that is the way they operate but it is to the detriment of really resolving these issues.

Most *every* knowledgeable professional without an axe to grind articulates the facts are quite different than the tabloid media and those mentioned above have presented.

[nilesobek]

9. Old stories like this

legitimize Nazism and totalitarian rule in countries like Ukraine. The current Kiev government is the result of a violent overthrow of a democratically elected government. Yats had to import government officials because he cannot find anyone in the Ukraine corrupt enough to serve in his, "government." His top 3 advisers are foreign and from outside the country. Obama being elected did not stop the march of the neo-cons. Now the neo-cons want to continue on into other former Soviet Republics.

[uhnope]

11. yeah, let's not talk about history, not even on anniversaries

or else some people might see parallels to today's Russia

[snappyturtle]

16. +1 nt