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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:09 PM

Thom Hartmann: Go to ''second chance on shoot first.org'' now to sign up



Neal Asbury,"Truth for America" vs. Thom Hartmann. George Zimmerman faced a judge today. But his trial is just the first that America needs. We need to put on trial the Shoot First laws that allowed Zimmerman to walk around as a free man for 6 weeks after killing someone.

The Big Picture with Thom Hartmann on RT TV & FSTV "live" 9pm and 11pm check www.thomhartmann.com/tv for local listings

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Thom Hartmann: Go to ''second chance on shoot first.org'' now to sign up (Original post)
thomhartmann Apr 2012 OP
TheWraith Apr 2012 #1
99th_Monkey Apr 2012 #2
TheWraith Apr 2012 #7
99th_Monkey Apr 2012 #8
gejohnston Apr 2012 #9
99th_Monkey Apr 2012 #14
gejohnston Apr 2012 #15
99th_Monkey Apr 2012 #21
movonne Apr 2012 #5
onehandle Apr 2012 #6
AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #18
baldguy Apr 2012 #11
gejohnston Apr 2012 #17
AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #20
AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #19
sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #3
JDPriestly Apr 2012 #4
gejohnston Apr 2012 #10
baldguy Apr 2012 #12
fightforfreedom123 Apr 2012 #13
gejohnston Apr 2012 #16

Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:13 PM

1. There is no such thing as a "shoot first law."

That is, simply put, ridiculous fearmongering. The reason Zimmerman was free for six weeks was because of an attempted police coverup, no more no less.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:41 PM

2. So you think "Stand your ground" laws are just A-OK? Seriously? ~nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:47 PM

7. Try actually educating yourself about them.

You will find that there is absolutely nothing novel or different about "stand your ground" laws from the standard self-defense laws that most states have. Nor is there any "shoot first" or "I felt scared" provision like the panic-mongers would have you believe.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:25 PM

8. I've already read quite a bit about it.

and I still have not found one shred of a reason why I would want that to be
the law in a state I live in, or visit for that matter.

And the fact that we mainly have ALEC and the NRA to thank, for championing
SYG legislation (in what, like 21-23 states?) spells very bad juju.

Do you not agree, that you should maybe reconsider being in such tacky
company?

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 08:15 AM

9. what is your state?

Illinois has had SYG since 1961 and Washington state since about 1917.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 08:27 PM

14. Oregon ~nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #14)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:37 AM

15. Oregon has a castle doctrine for quite some time

but SYG outside the home may be a different matter. It seems that the Oregon law specifies scenarios where you don't have a "duty to retreat" if feasible. It specifies the situation.
http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/161.html

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:18 PM

21. Yes, the Castle Doctrine, which I'm totally fine with.

it's just SYG that I think over-reaches in the wrong direction,
as indicated by the increased deaths by gun in states that
have adopted it.

Thanks for the link.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:05 PM

5. Lets start with the real problem....Zimmerman had a gun

he tracked and shot an unarmed boy..it is as simple as that no matter all this other stuff about the "the shoot first law" or any other laws...until murder is not a sport this will be a norm thing..

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:27 PM

6. Back, back into your hole.

Nobody cares in decent space.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:19 AM

18. About facts?

Yeah, I guess nobody cares.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 10:23 AM

11. Of course there are such things as Shoot First Laws.

The NRA, Alec, the Koch Bros, the GOP, the RW media and brain addled gun-worshipers everywhere defend them and call them "Stand Your Ground" laws, and pretend that self-defense requires the brandishing of a handgun.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #11)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:42 AM

17. Many SYG laws predate

ALEC, the Kochs. Washington's date back to 1917. Utah has always had it as common law, but not as a statute.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #11)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:24 AM

20. Coming up on a hundred years here in Washington State. How old is ALEC?

How old are the Koch bros?

I don't believe your cart is behind your horse.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:21 AM

19. I disagree.

The police may have done a somewhat shoddy job of the investigation, but they returned a recommendation for a manslaughter charge.

It's the DA, whose laundry we should be looking into. I want to know if the DA called Zimmerman's father (a retired judge) that night. I think that's where the corruption lies. Not necessarily with the police.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:43 PM

3. A Koch Brother law, how could anything go wrong?

That poor guy who was the guest is living in fear and these are the kind of people who are pushing all these laws. And he uses Bush to back himself up?

Glad to see Bloomberg for once getting it right.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:57 PM

4. A person does have the right to defend himself and others, but . . . .

it is long established law that the defense should be proved in a court unless it is so obviously applicable that no one could question it.

Deciding whether self-defense justifies a murder or an assault should remain in the jurisdiction of the courts.

Removing the determination about the justification of self-defense from the jurisdiction of the courts does give bullies and overzealous types as well as criminals a license to kill or beat others up.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 08:25 AM

10. one correction

Deciding whether self-defense justifies a murder or an assault should remain in the jurisdiction of the courts.

Justifiable homicide is not murder. All murders are homicide, but not all homicides are murders.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 10:50 AM

12. Homicides are investigated as murders until the EVIDENCE is uncovered to indicate otherwise.

The police had no such evidence other than Zimmerman's word. Florida's Shoot First law was used as an excuse to let him go.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 05:50 PM

13. That's try

 

The Florida law states you can still be detained, questioned, arrested and put on trial.

The cops had evidence that Zimmerman was lying but ignored the evidence.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #12)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:40 AM

16. you don't know what evidence the police had

other than what the media knew or claimed. Florida's SYG was used by someone, but according to the special prosecutor, the investigation was still in the process, arrests are not always made at the scene, and deaths are investigated to see what happened. If homicide is determined, then you investigate to determine if it was murder.

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