HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Video & Multimedia (Forum) » "The EU Is 1 Big Sca...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon May 12, 2014, 07:06 PM

"The EU Is 1 Big Scam & The Ukraine Is It's Next Victim"...Retro of 3/25 Hartmann & Richard Wolfe

(Sort of interesting watching this in Retropspective, isn't it)

The EU Is 1 Big Scam & The Ukraine Is It's Next Victim...

Published on Mar 25, 2014

Dr. Richard Wolff, Democracy At Work, joins Thom Hartmann. Joining the European Union has been a disaster for countries like Greece - Spain - and Ireland. Austerity cuts have decimated their already struggling economies. So why is Ukraine even THINKING of moving closer to joining the EU?



Category

News & Politics
License

Standard YouTube License



27 replies, 1132 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply "The EU Is 1 Big Scam & The Ukraine Is It's Next Victim"...Retro of 3/25 Hartmann & Richard Wolfe (Original post)
KoKo May 2014 OP
dipsydoodle May 2014 #1
KoKo May 2014 #7
JDPriestly May 2014 #11
dipsydoodle May 2014 #13
newthinking May 2014 #18
Demeter May 2014 #2
JDPriestly May 2014 #12
Demeter May 2014 #15
Mika May 2014 #3
iamthebandfanman May 2014 #4
Mika May 2014 #5
uhnope May 2014 #16
DeSwiss May 2014 #6
KoKo May 2014 #8
DeSwiss May 2014 #9
Demeter May 2014 #14
DeSwiss May 2014 #26
Demeter May 2014 #27
blkmusclmachine May 2014 #10
uhnope May 2014 #17
newthinking May 2014 #19
uhnope May 2014 #20
newthinking May 2014 #21
uhnope May 2014 #22
newthinking May 2014 #23
uhnope May 2014 #24
newthinking May 2014 #25

Response to KoKo (Original post)

Mon May 12, 2014, 07:14 PM

1. Europe's 'Eastern Partnership' Dream

From November 25, 2013 – 07:16 PM Der Spiegel :

This tug-of-war began four years ago, when the EU proposed an "eastern partnership" with Ukraine as well as Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and Belarus. The EU offered cooperation, free trade and financial contributions in exchange for democratic reforms. Officials in Brussels spoke enthusiastically about the emergence of an historic Eastern European policy not unlike former German Chancellor Willy Brandt's rapprochement with the Warsaw Pact countries in the 1970s. The planned partnership agreements were intended to facilitate visa-free travel, reduce tariffs and introduce European norms. The only thing that was not offered was EU membership.

The EU's other goal, even though it was not as openly expressed, was to limit Russia's influence and define how far Europe extends into the east. For Russia, the struggle to win over Ukraine is not only about maintaining its geopolitical influence, but about having control over a region that was the nucleus of the Russian empire a millennium ago. The word Ukraine translates as "border country," and many feel the capital Kiev is the mother of all Russian cities.

This helped create Cold War-style grappling between Moscow and Brussels. The Russian president, hardened by his fights in the Kremlin, is more adept than EU bureaucrats at manipulating people with venality and affections. None of the top European politicians made a serious effort to win over Ukraine, with neither German Chancellor Angela Merkel nor European Commission President José Manuel Barroso flying to Kiev to convince its wavering president.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/how-the-eu-lost-to-russia-in-negotiations-over-ukraine-trade-deal-a-935476.html

Its certainly a scam with regard exports / import. The current value of EU exports to the Ukraine are $10billion pa higher than imports. In some respects EU loans will do no more than help fund that gap i.e its providing finance to sell its own goods.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #1)

Mon May 12, 2014, 10:50 PM

7. interesting...thanks..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #1)

Tue May 13, 2014, 03:09 AM

11. Unless Russia has improved the quality of its goods a lot since the 1980s, the Ukrainians

probably prefer the high-quality West European goods over the Russian ones.

Also, one advantage for citizens of a country in joining the EU is that workers can go from a struggling country to an EU country and work for higher wages.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #11)

Tue May 13, 2014, 05:28 AM

13. Yes but they're not joining the EU as a member state

Last edited Tue May 13, 2014, 07:53 AM - Edit history (1)

and it would be a very long time before they were considered acceptable to do so. Out of this they've got Schengen visas only, not permissions to work, which allow a 90 stay in the Schengen area effectively as tourists - same as US citizens coming over for example and the same as restrictions on the US visa waiver program, for those eligible, travelling to the USA.

There was never any real intention within the EU of workers going from a struggling country to another EU country to simply work in routine low paid jobs for higher wages if all they were going to do was ship money home instead of spending it where earned.

With regard preferences for higher quality West European goods devaluation of their currency is hardly likely to help average citizens with that.

edit to add :

Rada adopts all laws needed to implement first phase of action plan on visa liberalization with EU

Ukraine has completed the implementation of the first phase of its action plan on visa liberalization with the EU.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/politics/rada-adopts-all-laws-needed-to-implement-first-phase-of-action-plan-on-visa-liberalization-with-eu-347591.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #13)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:34 PM

18. And they can't print massive currency like we can. The majority of their exports are to Russia

They are not near tooled to offer Europe goods they will buy.
This is going to be a very rough transition.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KoKo (Original post)

Mon May 12, 2014, 07:46 PM

2. You Betcha!

The nicest thing about the Eurozone is that everybody can be victimized over and over again...except Germany. Look upon it as a guaranteed lunch for Merkel and her German bankster friends...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demeter (Reply #2)

Tue May 13, 2014, 03:12 AM

12. Germany -- excellent education and teaching of trades.

Excellent working conditions and in big companies worker participation in some decisionmaking. Excellent manufacturing. Excellent quality of goods. That's why Germany does so well. Sorry, but Germany emphasizes quality and its exports are in demand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #12)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:20 AM

15. You missed the entire meaning of my post

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KoKo (Original post)

Mon May 12, 2014, 08:13 PM

3. Clearly, being on RT, Thom Hartmann is a Putin apologist.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #3)

Mon May 12, 2014, 09:28 PM

4. you do know

that thom hartmann owns his show, right?

RT is most certainly a bias government funded network, and just because thom wanted a bigger audience doesn't make them not so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #4)

Mon May 12, 2014, 09:39 PM

5. I was just sarcastically broad brushing as I see so often 'round here these days.

Yes, I do know that TH owns his own show.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to KoKo (Original post)

Mon May 12, 2014, 10:04 PM

6. K&R!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DeSwiss (Reply #6)

Mon May 12, 2014, 10:52 PM

8. oh..my..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KoKo (Reply #8)

Mon May 12, 2014, 10:57 PM

9. Williambanzai7!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DeSwiss (Reply #6)

Tue May 13, 2014, 06:19 AM

14. Dare I ask...who ARE these people?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demeter (Reply #14)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:57 PM

26. Well aside from the Scam Trek crew you already know.....

...there's the green-being from Planet France, Nicolas ''I'm-All-Ears'' Sarkosy. Then, with her cool shades on even in the dark of space, is that German femme-fatale (just ask Greece how fatal she is) and all-round triangular hand-holder Jean ''I'm-Not-Hitler's-Daughter'' Merkle. The other smiling asshat with glasses on is the EU Commission President José Manuel ''Portaguey'' Barroso. And of course in the chair and in absolute, utter and total control OF EVERYTHING is IMF Chief Christine ''Let-Me-Loan-U-Some-Muney-Huney'' Lagarde. And next to her is her trusty sidekick and all-round smoosher is Barack ''I-Have-An-Alien-Birth-Certificate'' Obama. And in the foreground, and last but certainly not least by any stretch of the imagination since he's done more damage to an empire since Atilla-the-Hun did it, Ben ''I'm-Justa-Klingon-At-Heart'' Bernanke.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DeSwiss (Reply #26)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:07 PM

27. Thanks

I don't even know what they look like when they look like themselves....nor do I want to, frankly.

It makes a lot more sense with your captions....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KoKo (Original post)

Mon May 12, 2014, 11:33 PM

10. EU = 1 big Scam!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:04 PM

17. Hartmann gets $$$ from RT/the Russian gov. He should have quit with Liz Wahl

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uhnope (Reply #17)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:41 PM

19. Liz Wahl's resignation was a PR stunt and managed by Neo-cons in hopes of hurting Russia's

image. This from TruthDig:

How Cold War-Hungry Neocons Stage Managed RT Anchor Liz Wahl’s Resignation

The “Freedom selfie” from James Kirchick’s Twitter feed.

Behind the coverage of Wahl’s dramatic protest, a cadre of neoconservatives was celebrating a public relations coup. Desperate to revive the Cold War, head off further cuts to the defense budget and restore the legitimacy they lost in the ruins of Iraq, the tightknit group of neoconservative writers and stewards had opened up a new PR front through Wahl’s resignation. And they succeeded with no shortage of help from an ossified media establishment struggling to maintain credibility in an increasingly anarchic online news environment. With isolated skeptics branded as useful idiots for Putin, the scene has been kept clean of neoconservative fingerprints, obscuring their interest in Wahl’s resignation and the broader push to deepen tensions with Russia.

Through interviews with six current RT employees—all Americans with no particular affection for Russian President Vladimir Putin or his policies—and an investigation into the political forces managing the spectacle, a story has emerged that stands in stark contrast to the one advanced by Wahl, her supporters and the mainstream American press.

It is the story, according to former colleagues, of an apolitical, deeply disgruntled employee seeking an exit strategy from a job where, sources say, she was disciplined for unprofessional behavior and had been demoted. Wahl did not return several voice and text messages sent to her cellphone.

At the center of the intrigue is a young neoconservative writer and activist who helped craft Wahl’s strategy and exploit her resignation to propel the agenda of a powerful pro-war lobby in Washington.


http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/how_cold_war-hungry_neocons_stage_managed_liz_wahls_resignation_20140319

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to newthinking (Reply #19)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:44 PM

20. yeah yeah Nuland Conspiracy Evil West Down-With-USA & Fearless Leader Putin

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uhnope (Reply #20)

Tue May 13, 2014, 02:47 PM

21. Read it. It is well sourced.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to newthinking (Reply #21)

Tue May 13, 2014, 03:21 PM

22. "well sourced"' as in "anonymous sources". It's a slimy hit piece

like big tobacco companies did against whistleblowers back in the day. It blames "war hungry neocons"-- well what the heck is Putin if not a war-hungry neocon? Have you noticed that the west hasn't made war on Ukraine, but Putin sure has?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uhnope (Reply #22)

Tue May 13, 2014, 03:36 PM

23. Not the case, now I *know* you did not read it



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to newthinking (Reply #23)

Tue May 13, 2014, 04:13 PM

24. "All insisted on speaking anonymously" which proves either YOU didn't read it or

you are so into Orwellian doublethink, as Putin supporters must be, that you didn't notice/forgot about it.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/how_cold_war-hungry_neocons_stage_managed_liz_wahls_resignation_20140319
Six current employees of RT were interviewed for this investigation. All are Americans who made no secret of their qualms with the network’s coverage of Russia-related issues. Some said they bristled at an increasingly suffocating atmosphere rife with heavy-handed editorial imposition, while others in different positions at the network said they still enjoyed a modicum of independence. All insisted on speaking anonymously for fear of repercussions. Four of the sources were personally acquainted with Wahl and worked or interacted with her on a regular basis.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uhnope (Reply #24)

Tue May 13, 2014, 04:24 PM

25. Nice mislead.

You pick out one paragraph that is asking sources not about the sourced material about Wahl's act, but asking them about about editorial pressure.
Like most *any* other employer, people are very careful about speaking out "on the record".

How about what the article was really about, or are your comments just to find some way to "one up".

Somehow I doubt I am going to see intellectual honesty.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread