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Mon Mar 3, 2014, 07:49 PM

Did the U.S. Carry Out a Ukrainian Coup?

35 replies, 2677 views

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Reply Did the U.S. Carry Out a Ukrainian Coup? (Original post)
geefloyd46 Mar 2014 OP
rdharma Mar 2014 #1
brush Mar 2014 #18
rdharma Mar 2014 #21
brush Mar 2014 #22
rdharma Mar 2014 #23
brush Mar 2014 #25
rdharma Mar 2014 #27
brush Mar 2014 #31
rdharma Mar 2014 #32
brush Mar 2014 #33
cprise Mar 2014 #34
zeemike Mar 2014 #2
brush Mar 2014 #19
zeemike Mar 2014 #20
rdharma Mar 2014 #29
blackspade Mar 2014 #3
swilton Mar 2014 #4
glinda Mar 2014 #10
cprise Mar 2014 #12
rdharma Mar 2014 #30
cprise Mar 2014 #5
ozone_man Mar 2014 #11
cprise Mar 2014 #6
jtuck004 Mar 2014 #7
truedelphi Mar 2014 #8
KansDem Mar 2014 #24
dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #9
bbgrunt Mar 2014 #13
grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #14
Mr_Jefferson_24 Mar 2014 #15
davidpdx Mar 2014 #16
Name removed Mar 2014 #17
BelgianMadCow Mar 2014 #26
arikara Mar 2014 #28
Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #35

Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:02 PM

1. Excellent Video! Thanks! nt

 

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Response to rdharma (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:40 AM

18. I didn't watch video all the way through but both the interviewer and interviewee seem unaware of

this:

The Budapest Memorandum of 1994, signed by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine promises to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

Article one reads: "The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine ... to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."

http://unterm.un.org/DGAACS/unterm.nsf/8fa942046ff7601c85256983007ca4d8/fa03e45d114224af85257b64007687e0?OpenDocument

The question first posed by the interviewer was is this incursion a violation of international law?

Of course it is. Why don't both of them know this.

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Response to brush (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:01 AM

21. You might watch the video..... before you try to hijack the thread.

 

Maybe you should start another thread to discuss your issue. (Which is debatable, but just an intentional distraction here).

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Response to rdharma (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:18 AM

22. What distraction?

Last edited Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:50 PM - Edit history (2)

Added info of the Budapest signed agreement is hijacking? I went back and watched the second half of the video and although the interviewee offers a lot of good information and says "there are a lot of things in play here", he doesn't mention the Budapest Memorandum.

Certainly something that is also "in play" and that our president has to juggle as he and his cabinet try to figure out what to do.

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Response to brush (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 01:36 PM

23. What is the UN's position on externally fomented & sponsored coups in member nations?

 

Well?

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Response to rdharma (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:54 PM

25. Explain pls

What does the "Well?"

Are you saying you have evidence that this was an externally fomented coup?

Give links or something to back up your question.

And you still haven't bothered to acknowledge there is such a sighed document (Russia, Ukraine, Great Britain and the US) called the Budapest Memorandum.

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Response to brush (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:43 PM

27. "Well?" means I'd like you to address the topic of the original thread......

 

.... instead of intentionally trying to distract by throwing out red herrings.

Pretty simple actually. Do you think the "peaceful" portion of the Maidan protests wanted oligarchs installed? (It's already clear who the Right Sector wanted installed).

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Response to rdharma (Reply #27)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 06:51 PM

31. Nobody's trying to distract anyone

and of course no one wants oligarchs installed or is throwing out red herrings just trying to understand the situation better.

And what does pointing out added information about a document that was signed at the break-up of the Soviet Union that might have some significance in how the president reacts to what Putin has done in The Ukraine hurt?

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Response to brush (Reply #31)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 07:00 PM

32. Nobody want's RW oligarchs installed in Ukraine?

 

You might want to let the interim government stooges know about that! They've already installed them!

Sergei Taruta in Donetsk .........and Ihor Kolomoysky in Dnipropetrovsk.

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Response to rdharma (Reply #32)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 07:11 PM

33. I'm just a poster here on DU

I have no inside access to anyone in Ukraine. I happened to watch Rachel Maddow last night and she mentioned the Budapest Memorandum that somehow seems to ruffle feathers on this thread.

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Response to brush (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 5, 2014, 12:37 AM

34. Would US plotting to replace Ukraine's elected leader

also constitute a breech of "Independence and Sovereignty"? I think so.

Just waving around the words "opposition leaders" doesn't make it any less criminal, IMO, because those are not the leaders of said country.

The US and Germany undermined Ukraine's sovereignty.

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:15 PM

2. K&R

Cue the Putin is a monster crowd.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:41 AM

19. See post 18 the Budapest Memorandum

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Response to brush (Reply #19)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:59 AM

20. So upholding sovereignty is supporting a coup against an elected leader?

That explains a lot...including what we have done to our neighbors to the south.
Kind of makes a mockery of democracy.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:17 PM

29. You summed it up better than I did!

 

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:39 PM

3. Thanks for posting

That gave me a much clearer picture of what is going on there.

I still think the Russians are using this coup as a pretext to reabsorb Crimea, but the neocon meddling does seem apparent.

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:41 PM

4. The minority being able to overthrow an elected leader in Ukraine

would be the equivalent of a minority in the US (i.e., the tea party) being able to overthrow a US elected leader

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Response to swilton (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 09:56 PM

10. Conservatives already did that through ownership of Media, resources, almost everything we buy (from

China)....you name it. It is a sophisticated calculated ouster without having to actually oust a President.

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Response to glinda (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 10:13 PM

12. In the past 2 years CBS and PBS came under neocon control

The former VP of Fox News (from the Bush years) now runs CBS News, and flagship PBS station WGBH now has David Koch on its board.

Don't expect MSNBC to last for long (although it makes a convenient figleaf).

The media situation is now twice as bad as it was under Bush.

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Response to swilton (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:26 PM

30. With baseball bats and Molotov cocktails..... all is possible!

 



I wonder how the newly empowered RW oligarchs are going to rid themselves of the 'Right Sector' when they've securely reached their goal.

Another "Night of the Long Knives"?

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:42 PM

5. Some context:

A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates, Leaked Tape Suggests U.S. Was Plotting Coup
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/20/a_new_cold_war_ukraine_violence

Violent riots since at least Dec. 2:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4555424


&noredirect=1&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DN9wkwwWKSzc%26noredirect%3D1&has_verified=1


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Response to cprise (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 09:59 PM

11. Great interview. Thanks!

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:49 PM

6. A sample of the Washington Consensus lying machine:

On January 16, the Ukrainian government, headed by President Yanukovych, tried to put an end to Ukrainian civil society. A series of laws passed hastily and without following normal procedure did away with freedom of speech and assembly, and removed the few remaining checks on executive authority. This was intended to turn Ukraine into a dictatorship and to make all participants in the Maidan, by then probably numbering in the low millions, into criminals. The result was that the protests, until then entirely peaceful, became violent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=744177

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 09:03 PM

7. I'm just kinda coming into this. We spent $5 billion to get the Russians into the Ukraine? Now, we

want them to leave?

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 09:18 PM

8. Don't know much about the Ukraine.

But back in the early Sixties, our CIA installed one Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and 20 years later, had him lead that nation into fighting a lengthy and bloody war against Iran, that was helpful for our purposes. Then just a few years after that war was finished, our leaders told him told him that whatever he wanted to do with regards to Kuwait was fine by us (April Glasspie delivering said message) and then we went on to attack him.

And then we waged sanctions and war against the Iraqi people for the next twenty years. So can't say I don't see a pattern...

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:48 PM

24. In 1982, the US provided Saddam with weapons to kill Iranians...

In 1983, the US provided the Iranians with weapons to kill Iraqis (Iran/Contra scandal)

And people wonder why we're dislike in certain parts of the world?

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 09:42 PM

9. and we are giving Ukraine 1 Billion in loan guarantees

Congress in process of passing right now.

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 10:42 PM

13. thanks for posting this. k and r

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 01:31 AM

14. Must see video!!!!

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:11 AM

15. K&R. Thanks for posting this.

Sadly, I think the answer to your question is yes, the US did have a hand in it.

Sadder still is that it really comes as no surprise at all in view of our lengthy historical track record of this very kind of unwelcome and highly illegal meddling in the affairs of other nations.

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:32 AM

16. Neo-nazi militias coup?

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)


Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:35 PM

26. watershed post

well, if it would get 200 recs in GD.

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:09 PM

28. K&r

Nt

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Response to geefloyd46 (Original post)

Wed Mar 5, 2014, 04:56 AM

35. Amateur hour. Notice how they go directly from surmising about US involvement

 

To later, without a shred of evidence or testimony from eyewitnesses frame the latter part of the interview around how the U.S. backed coup is dangerous, etc etc.

Why don't you review the facts around Yanikovych's flight and the timing of it. Where is everyone getting the idea that because the protesters protested and later Yanukovych fled after murdering scores of Ukrainians that this was a coup?

I cannot believe people are swallowing this bullshit amateur opinion unquestioningly.

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