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Mon Oct 21, 2013, 06:53 PM

Vancouver starfish melting, Pacific salmon turning yellow in mass quantities




Published: October 17th, 2013 at 12:10 pm ET
By ENENews


Alexandra Mortonís Blog, Oct. 11, 2013: The sockeye returns to the Skeena watershed in northern British Columbia crashed this year. This was completely unexpected. Sockeye salmon returns have plunged to historic lows in the Skeena River system of northwestern British Columbia, forcing drastic, never-before-imposed fishing closures. massive numbers were dying before spawning. This is a Fraser sockeye problem. This is called prespawn mortality (PSM). Now, the Skeena sockeye appear to be exhibiting a similar characteristic. On the first day we came across a First Nation fishery and found pink salmon that were a deep, canary yellow parts of their hearts are yellow, their gill arches and spines are yellow, the cartilage in their head is yellow. Their spleens are swollen and enlarged, and their livers are spotted. In some cases their eyes were bugged out. Guys who have fished this region their whole lives told me they have seen the occasional yellow salmon over the years, but never in the numbers seen this year. http://enenews.com/biologist-finds-pink-salmon-that-are-canary-yellow-on-canadas-pacific-coast-insides-also-yellow-heart-parts-gill-arches-spines-cartilage-in-head-spleens-swollen-livers-spotted-some-with

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Reply Vancouver starfish melting, Pacific salmon turning yellow in mass quantities (Original post)
Miranda4peace Oct 2013 OP
Scuba Oct 2013 #1
Curmudgeoness Oct 2013 #2
AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #4
Curmudgeoness Oct 2013 #5
AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #6
Curmudgeoness Oct 2013 #7
AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #14
longship Oct 2013 #11
Curmudgeoness Oct 2013 #12
longship Oct 2013 #13
drynberg Oct 2013 #16
longship Oct 2013 #17
MynameisBlarney Oct 2013 #15
Curmudgeoness Oct 2013 #18
AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #3
mn9driver Oct 2013 #8
applegrove Oct 2013 #9
DhhD Oct 2013 #10

Response to Miranda4peace (Original post)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 07:03 PM

1. The canary has been dead for a while, but we've been ignoring that fact.

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Response to Miranda4peace (Original post)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 07:06 PM

2. Does anyone know

if any radiation from Fukushima is in the water on the Pacific coast? Why are they not even mentioning this as one of the possible causes? I might be way off base thinking that this could all be related, but that was the first thing that came to my mind.

Whatever the reason, it is odd that two separate species are being affected at the same time.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 07:14 PM

4. Because the ocean is too vast.

Even considering where these fish migrate afield, there's no credible exposure link.

If I had to hazard a guess, some foundational leg of the food chain might be buckling, due to acidification or something. Probably a nutritional deficiency.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #4)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 07:23 PM

5. Melting starfish?

Freaking melting? That just doesn't sound like a nutritional deficiency. And I wouldn't think that salmon and starfish have the same food sources.

Is the ocean too vast? Yes and no. It is too vast, except that currents do keep water from certain areas more concentrated than you would expect from the whole ocean.

I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 07:32 PM

6. Well, acidification affects the carrying capacity of calcium carbonate in the water.

A material that starfish bone is made out of. Higher concentrations of CO2 dissolved in the water, lowers the Calcium Carbonate concentration, making creatures that use it expend more energy forming bone or shell. (Starfish have bone-like material)

A couple percentage points shift might impact a species or two quite severely. Stressing them, until they are susceptible to some viral infection or something like that. (Again, I am speculating)


As for the yellow Pink Salmon... I've seen none of this down in WA state, so far this year. That's weird. I wouldn't eat one that looked like that. No way. I can't speculate on if/how the two events might be linked. The salmon thing is super weird.


Edit: I'd be looking REAL close at upstream stuff, from that bay, on up the river. Someone might be dumping something.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 07:53 PM

7. Yeah, we are all speculating.

Even the experts are speculating at this point, but you are right, looking upstream is a must. However, it seems that the problems with the salmon would have taken a longer time to develop that the time they would be in the river or the bay, since they don't live there and only get there in time to migrate to the spawning areas.

It does make sense that acidification of the water could cause a lot of problems. Yes, I remember when we had to dissect a starfish and how hard it was to cut into it. The endoskeleton was definitely a hard calcium composition, so the inability to obtain enough calcium would be a major issue. Excuse my repetition here though, but melting????? (Sorry, I can't get that out of my mind.)

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 22, 2013, 01:08 AM

14. The word 'melting' was probably used euphamistically.

Not sure about the salmon. They change quick. They don't go red, grow the hump, elongate jaws until they hit fresh water. When they do, they change quick. Meat turns grey, they get kinda nasty. I could see them going yellow, depending on the cause, in a very short span of time.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 08:59 PM

11. Absolutely no plausible mechanism.

Plus, the amount of radiation on west coast of North America from Fukushima will be small due to diffusion in the world's largest and deepest ocean.

However, ocean acidification from ocean warming and high CO2 levels is a plausible mechanism for harm in shelled sea animals, which sea stars are part.

But that's not to say this is global warming either. It may be something else entirely. But it most certainly is not Fukushima radiation.

The best thing to do is to not speculate beyond the data and to wait for the science to resolve this, which may take some time.


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Response to longship (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 09:14 PM

12. I know that you are right about waiting

but I hate that it always takes some much time....all the while the damage is continuing.

But really, speculation serves a purpose, at least for me, in that I have to think. And I learn by having people throw other speculations that are more feasible at me. It is like doing a crossword puzzle---I don't really accomplish anything, but I learn new things.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 09:19 PM

13. That's my thinking, too.

I am eager to learn new things. It's why I studied physics way back when. But DUers are generally pretty damned smart. I don't dive into threads like this often. But where I can bring some of my ancient and meager education to bear, I will jump in. Hopefully, politely.

Thanks for the response.

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Response to longship (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:07 AM

16. Radiation does not "dilute" in larger bodies of water, the same effects will be had regardless of

The size...meaning that if say a million starfish are melted in a contained sea, the same would be true in #s for the Pacific. Plus, currents in the ocean are like rivers, and the strength of the radiation is much greater in these currents than in areas not much effected by these currents. So, in light of no fish being tested for radiation in the Pacific Northwest and the currents of the Pacific Ocean, and the huge continual release of highly radioactive waters off of Fukishima, I'd suspect radiation. Only science will answer these questions, and unfortunately the concentrations don't appear to be diminishing in the foreseeable future. A start would be to not eat any thing from the Pacific. The longer we wait, the more damage to our environment and our people (and of course any other organisms).

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Response to drynberg (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:12 AM

17. Absolute rubbish.

It's called diffusion.

Look it up.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:59 AM

15. Between the Deepwater Horizon

and the tsunami, our ocean is in far far worse trouble than we know.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:28 PM

18. That is my concern too.

I have these nightmares of Soylent Green....that is supposed to come from algae in the oceans, but the oceans are dead and the truth is just being kept from people.

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Response to Miranda4peace (Original post)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 07:12 PM

3. None of the Pinks I caught this year looked wierd.

Coho were all fine too.

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Response to Miranda4peace (Original post)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 08:19 PM

8. Very likely a parasite

There are several that periodically pop up in west coast salmon populations. Slight increases in water temperature and changes in pH could be giving the bugs the advantage.

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Response to Miranda4peace (Original post)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 08:32 PM

9. Farmed salmon have been grey for years. They just have always dyed them.

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Response to Miranda4peace (Original post)

Mon Oct 21, 2013, 08:42 PM

10. It could be they have been exposed to another kind of food supply that they do not normally range

with; an invasion. The effects could be cumulative so they did not die right away. Probably most have been poisoned but there are few who have genes to survive it; the ones on the margins between the ranges. These need to be found. It is believed that evolution appears in short spurts, like a die off of almost all of the species with the few remaining to restart the population in a change environmental range or co-community (the ones from the margins that have gone upstream somewhere).

Flamingos are only pink if they eat a certain kind of food/proteins.

Thanks for reading my opinion.

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