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This message was self-deleted by its author (mother earth) on Mon Aug 26, 2013, 08:11 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
Response to mother earth (Original post)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)This is no joke.
If Mr Kaku says Fukushima is a ticking time bomb, you better believe it.
Response to darkangel218 (Reply #2)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)Saiaku da!
Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #4)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)Mataku ~~oh geeze!
Saiaku da ~ horrible.
90-percent
(6,829 posts)He blows the doors off that other TV physicist punk Brian Cox! Neil Degrassi Tyson is in between. But Michio is da man!
-90% Jimmy
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #9)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)More than their own citizens who are undoubtedly freaked out?
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #10)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #10)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)Response to LongTomH (Reply #21)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)the containments. BFD. Who in the hell ever assumed that this area of the complex would be cleaned up by now?
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #25)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)worry about the unknown quantities of 55 gallon drums full of every sort of horrible byproduct and waste from the nuclear civilian power and military production of the 50's and 60's from pretty much every nation that dabbled in it, quietly rotting away, the steel of the drums decaying in the water... waiting.
Tepco's mess is mostly localized. We are lucky, we have numbers on our side. We'll pay a price. Some migratory fish should be avoided for a while. Beyond that, we got lucky. This time.
I'm honestly more worried about reactors that are online and running right now, than I am about Fukushima Dai-ichi 1-4. Leaking contamination is one thing, operating reactors suffering catastrophic failure like Fukushima did, like Chernobyl did, like any reactor might given certain circumstances, is much more worrying to me.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #29)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)So, you're going to agree with me, BUT I am to shut the fuck up? Did I read between the lines accurately enough there?
Dai-ichi is in recovery mode now. It's done its damage for the most part. We agree on what to do with the rest of the industry BEFORE other reactors suffer the same fate. Not generally a good policy to shit on your allies.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)okashi ja nai
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)They are still trying to entomb that damn thing. Years and billions of dollars away from that too.
The mess at fukushima will probably outlive me, and I'm only 35. It's a reality we should get used to.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #59)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)As I specified elsewhere in this conversation, we are in agreement as to the fate of the rest of the reactors out there that are still ticking...
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)the MSM doesn't want to talk about this. Hopefully they can get some side boob shots today.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)The billionaire owned MSM will never report on the failing system they are part of. Well at least not objectively and that is why they are owned by the billionaires who are in line to gain the most. The story and ideas behind things and the direction of where things are going is where the shakers go for their news.
MSM is a soma pill, a thing to calm the herd so they can be fleeced at later leisure.
Btw, do you think they would of shut down San Onofre the way they did if there was no Fukushima
A Seismic Event for the Nuclear Industry! San Onofre Shutdown | Fairewinds Energy Education:
http://fairewinds.org/media/in-the-news/a-seismic-event-for-the-nuclear-industry-san-onofre-shutdown
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Looks like TEPCO got the reactors mostly under control after all, without the military.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #15)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Who in the hell ever suggested it would be cleaned up by now? Yes, it's LEAKING contamination. Is it puking out radiation at the rate it was 2 years ago? No. We have clearly entered a recovery phase.
Could we be further along if we'd sent in the military? Do you know the answer to that question? I certainly don't ASSUME that to be the case. This would be like using the military for police purposes. Something we prohibit, mostly because it's a political danger, but also partially because this is not the trained function OF the military.
The reactors are already broken. What value is there in sending in people who are trained to kill people and break things? Break it more? Are we just tempted to tap the military because people who are enlisted for a term of service cannot say 'no'? That's a pretty dick-ish thing to do.
Should be an option of last resort, which we are not yet at.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #24)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)It is obviously not perfect, they are losing contaminated water. But it's been reduced from a global threat, to mostly just a local threat, with some caveats like, we maybe should be testing or just not eating Bluefin tuna or other migratory fish.
I may call off the yearly salmon fishing trip with the family this year. I just don't know if it's safe to eat, and I don't kill fish just for the sake of killing them, I eat them.
It's certainly not the problem it was in may-june 2011, that's for sure.
I agree, we should have the best engineers and scientists working on solutions. To a degree, many are.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #33)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)The reactors are no longer operating. There is little reason for them to explode now. They only have to manage decay heat. Keep in mind, Chernobyl was operating far beyond design limits when it exploded, 33 gigawatts thermal was the last indication it gave before about 80% of its core was thrown, burning, into the sky. 80% of the actual mass of the core.
Dai-ichi's cores in 1-3 aren't going anywhere, just leaking contaminated cooling water. An earthquake won't change that. The cooling pools, particularly for #4 are debatable, I suppose.
I'm more concerned about a quake hitting another operating reactor. That's when they are most vulnerable.
As far as the global scale of a slow leak... Again, Dai-ichi isn't the only threat. There's the waste we've dumped. There are at least four whole reactors sitting at the bottom of different oceans (actually, I think 6, total) plus plutonium based weapons, all lost at sea. Dai-ichi seems pretty minimal of a threat right now, on the scale of the world. The only serious remaining threat seems to be the cooling pool for #4, if it somehow tipped over, caught fire, and burned for a period of time, that would have clear global impacts. Probably worse than the initial failure of the entire site.
Personally, I think it's more likely we'll see another reactor fail spectacularly, than that fuel pool catch fire at this point. All it takes is a sudden calamity. A surprise flood, perhaps from a failed dam hitting a plant. A major quake. That sort of thing.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #41)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Individual perceptions vary. I personally think TEPCO, with government oversight, is capable of handling the cleanup. I don't necessarily trust them, so at risk of repeating a Reagan-esque line: trust but verify.
The efforts underway right now seem appropriate to reduce the amount of contaminated water coming out of it. They are building isolation to protect the plant from the elements, so no rain water gets in to get contaminated and flow out. So that's a good thing. Closed loop cooling help too, because every gallon you pump in to cool it has to come out somewhere, and we know the containments are no longer water tight.
They are making progress in all the areas I personally expect them to, so allowing for restitution and maybe some criminal convictions out of the earlier mistakes, since TEPCO is basically controlled by the government at this point, I don't know that sending in the military would fix anything. Same boss, ultimately.
If things start going awry, re-criticality, or failure to cool the decay heat to the point zircalloy starts burning again, that sort of thing, then I would look to the Japanese government to relieve TEPCO of the reins.
That's my personal bar. I can accept/understand if your bar is different, and if you have already utterly lost faith in TEPCO.
Edit: I did watch the video, but in all honesty, I 'checked out' a bit when he was advocating sending in the military. I just don't see that as a solution, and in fact, see it as counter-productive.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #46)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)oh geez.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Was the military necessary? Is it necessary now?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)leaking, into the ocean, "like they were back then", now, and has been continuously since the incident is my understanding of the serious nature of this ongoing problem.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)There are some species of fish we probably shouldn't be eating right now, out of the pacific. No doubt.
But the vast majority of the material at the site cannot physically reach the ocean, and even if it did, the entire quantity of material wouldn't kill the pacific. It's just too big. It would have impacts on the food chain, but that's all.
You know what worries me? What the fallout will be from the NEXT operating reactor to go a-glitter. Leaking contamination is one thing, an operating reactor undergoing failure like Fukushima, or even like some of the naval reactors that have failed in the past, is what worries me. It can project a lot more contamination, a lot further than the current leaks from Fukushima.
Keep in mind, there are anywhere between 8-20 operating reactors a stone's throw from Seattle at any given time. Ohio power and light. Lincoln power and light, etc. We may be upwind of the last commercial reactor in our state, but that doesn't mean a running reactor can't contaminate Seattle right now.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #31)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)In the US:
March 11, 2013, 4:05 PM
Fukushima Watch: Food Exports Still Restricted by Radiation Fears
By Eleanor Warnock
For U.S. residents hankering for some wild boar or deer meat from Tochigi prefecture in northeastern Japansorry, its still not allowed. Thats because the U.S. is one of 44 countries and regions that still havent lifted all restrictions on food imports from Japan due to worries about radiation in the aftermath of the disaster at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant that began in March 2011.
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Though the extent of radiation contamination isnt fully known, many countries remain wary.
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The U.S., one of Japans largest trading partners, still has a ban on imports of many leaf vegetables and tea from the disaster areas. But nearby China and South Korea have some of the toughest restrictionsunsurprising perhaps, given recent territorial disputes.
South Korea bans imports of produce such as spinach from several prefectures, and all mushrooms from 12 prefectures.
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Government Under Fire as Radiation Is Found in Milk, Rain
Federal officials have still not published any official data on nuclear fallout from Japan disaster
by John Upton? April 1, 2011, 6:34 p.m.
Radiation from Japan rained on Berkeley during recent storms at levels that exceeded drinking water standards by 181 times and has been detected in multiple milk samples, but the U.S. government has still not published any official data on nuclear fallout here from the Fukushima disaster.
Dangers from radiation that is wafting over the United States from the Fukushima power plant disaster and falling with rain have been downplayed by government officials and others, who say its impacts are so fleeting and minor as to be negligible.
But critics say an absence of federal data on the issue is hampering efforts to develop strategies for preventing radioactive isotopes from accumulating in the nation's food and water supplies.
Three weeks after the Fukushima nuclear power plant began spewing radiation into the worlds air, the U.S. government still has not revealed the amount of iodine-131 or other radioactive elements that have fallen as precipitation or made their way into milk supplies or drinking water.
The official mantra from a lot of folks in government is, Oh, its OK in low levels, said Patty Lovera, a Washington-based assistant director at the nonprofit Food and Water Watch.
But low levels add up. We would like to see a more coherent strategy for monitoring air and water in agricultural areas and then using that data to come up with a plan, if you need one, to go look at the food system.
Radiation falling with rain can cover grass that is eaten by cows and other animals. It can also fall on food crops or accumulate in reservoirs that are used for irrigation or drinking water. Seafood can also be affected.
Food and Water Watch sent a letter to President Barack Obama and members of his cabinet and Congress on Thursday urging the federal government to improve its monitoring of radiation in agricultural land and food in the wake of the Japanese tragedy.
The three agencies that monitor almost all of the food Americans eat have insisted that the U.S. food supply is safe, the letter states. The agencies, however, have done very little to detail specific ways in which they are responding to the threat of radiation in food.
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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #39)
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heaven05
(18,124 posts)this scenario repeats over more areas of the world, it really COULD get ugly for us all. Nuclear reactors and unstable earth....
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)There is going to be another earthquake, it's just a matter of time.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)spreading across the oceans contaminating a coastal city near you.
Response to UglyGreed (Reply #17)
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UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)gas and oil rigs. I follow on wings of care on youtube and they do flyovers of the Gulf. The oil and gas streaks on the water's surface reminds me of blacktop on our roads after it has rained.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)when the crisis was quite active.
Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #32)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)The radioisotopes that decay rapidly have decayed. The plant is not melting down this minute.
I am very anti-nuke and think Fukushima is an unmitigated disaster, but it's not helpful to claim that the situation is the same that it was in 2011.
Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #50)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #50)
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Response to mother earth (Original post)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Later we heard it fused.
That's as bad as it gets.
We don't have a magic potion to make the whole thing inert.
Civilization2
(649 posts)Nuke power is always a money pit; every construction, every operation, every cleanup = stolen money from the future.
The 'operators' are never made financially responsible for all the future dealings with the mess they are making today. It is foisted on future generations. Those who had no say in what mess is left for them.
Nuke energy is stealing from our children so some 1% arsehole can make a quick buck today!
There is more than enough energy coming from the sun every day to safely run the planet, only corporate tools say otherwise and some ignorant people believe it.
Response to Civilization2 (Reply #44)
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Response to mother earth (Original post)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)No way they have that fully cleaned up in 40 years.
The fuel will be gone from the pools. I doubt the containments will be empty by then. It took, what 10 years to clean out 3 mile island? And the corium didn't escape the RPV in that case.
There is corium everywhere inside the 3 containments at Fukushima. Three slagged RPV's that have to be extracted, plus fuel in the catchments, and fuel sediment in the basement.
No way it's fully done in 40 years. I give it 30 years just to get the majority of the fuel out, maybe all the intact fuel out.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)whatever pitiful number of us are still alive will have little hope of achieving anything beyond struggling to grow enough to eat.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)People voluntarily leaving...
Radiation levels millions of times higher than the levels considered "safe" by nuclear physicists...
TEPCO and Japan lying...
I cannot imagine anyone supporting nuclear power, and Mr. Obama's decision to support nuclear power is chilling.