HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Video & Multimedia (Forum) » Pic of the Moment: Welcom...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:38 AM

Pic of the Moment: Welcome to the Surveillance State



105 replies, 7506 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 105 replies Author Time Post
Reply Pic of the Moment: Welcome to the Surveillance State (Original post)
Skinner Jun 2013 OP
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #1
East Coast Pirate Jun 2013 #11
Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #22
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #67
Kurovski Jun 2013 #90
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #97
Kurovski Jun 2013 #105
reusrename Jun 2013 #96
think Jun 2013 #102
Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #103
In_The_Wind Jun 2013 #2
Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #3
baldguy Jun 2013 #4
Laelth Jun 2013 #14
baldguy Jun 2013 #29
Laelth Jun 2013 #31
baldguy Jun 2013 #39
freshwest Jun 2013 #81
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #56
Laelth Jun 2013 #59
Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #24
baldguy Jun 2013 #37
Psephos Jun 2013 #68
Auggie Jun 2013 #5
L0oniX Jun 2013 #6
n2doc Jun 2013 #13
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #87
snappyturtle Jun 2013 #15
L0oniX Jun 2013 #16
emulatorloo Jun 2013 #28
Locrian Jun 2013 #7
kath Jun 2013 #18
titanicdave Jun 2013 #8
harun Jun 2013 #10
DFW Jun 2013 #26
merrily Jun 2013 #38
DFW Jun 2013 #41
merrily Jun 2013 #47
DFW Jun 2013 #63
bvar22 Jun 2013 #74
DFW Jun 2013 #88
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #12
titanicdave Jun 2013 #30
dkf Jun 2013 #32
merrily Jun 2013 #48
dkf Jun 2013 #55
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #60
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #34
merrily Jun 2013 #40
Fuddnik Jun 2013 #57
bowens43 Jun 2013 #93
historylovr Jun 2013 #104
lastlib Jun 2013 #25
emulatorloo Jun 2013 #27
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #35
merrily Jun 2013 #42
NealK Jun 2013 #62
emulatorloo Jun 2013 #66
titanicdave Jun 2013 #78
Kali Jun 2013 #46
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #58
titanicdave Jun 2013 #77
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #79
titanicdave Jun 2013 #84
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #85
Kurovski Jun 2013 #91
SammyWinstonJack Jun 2013 #75
Skittles Jun 2013 #89
bowens43 Jun 2013 #92
Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #9
totodeinhere Jun 2013 #19
warrant46 Jun 2013 #33
thelordofhell Jun 2013 #20
merrily Jun 2013 #49
thelordofhell Jun 2013 #71
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #61
Amonester Jun 2013 #94
snappyturtle Jun 2013 #17
merrily Jun 2013 #50
snappyturtle Jun 2013 #52
valerief Jun 2013 #21
merrily Jun 2013 #45
valerief Jun 2013 #99
lastlib Jun 2013 #23
DeSwiss Jun 2013 #36
JDPriestly Jun 2013 #44
JDPriestly Jun 2013 #43
kenfrequed Jun 2013 #51
Solly Mack Jun 2013 #53
ctsnowman Jun 2013 #54
Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #64
B Stieg Jun 2013 #65
Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #69
RushIsRot Jun 2013 #70
Initech Jun 2013 #72
Politicalboi Jun 2013 #73
blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #76
Canuckistanian Jun 2013 #80
LibDemAlways Jun 2013 #82
Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #83
chervilant Jun 2013 #86
CrispyQ Jun 2013 #95
tavalon Jun 2013 #98
Initech Jun 2013 #100
JoePhilly Jun 2013 #101

Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:46 AM

1. Yep, technology has improved and more means of survellience and it is here for a while.

With cell phones able to video and take pictures, anything you do in the public is subject to being recorded by someone. Cameras are everywhere, I have them in my home also. Don't do the crime and you may not need to do the time. Don't like events being recorded, then do not use facilities in which a foot print can be retrieved. This is your choice, your freedom.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:29 PM

11. Bury your computer in the woods and don't leave the house.

 

Good plan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:55 PM

22. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:32 PM

67. Not me, don't care how much data they collect on me, I am not watching outside

For drones overhead and I don't think they are coming for my guns. Don't think anyone is going to be interested in my conversations either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #67)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:56 AM

90. It's all very boring until someone gets into power who has a real thing against boring people.

They'd have access to info on all those boring people, all in one place! they could make life miserable for those boring people.

It's all just great, until someone gets in who decides to use it all against the crashing bores.

You know, boring Christians (pick a boring sect), boring smarty-pants, boring Tea Party members. And so forth...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kurovski (Reply #90)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:43 AM

97. I would not think it boring if terrorist attacks never happened again. I quiet well understand when

some takes advantage and bullies others. We can gather all the what if's but in the end we need to protect ourselves as much as possible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #97)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 01:31 PM

105. intel gathering can be done with proper oversite and accountability.

Bush/Cheney had plenty of intel/info and the attack on 9/11happened anyway.

Lack of info is not the problem in the US.



http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/bostonglobe091801.html


by Kevin Cullen and Ralph Ranalli
The Boston Globe
September 18, 2001



FBI Director Robert Mueller continued to insist yesterday that federal authorities had no reason to suspect Islamic extremists were training at US flight schools before last week's suicide hijackings, even as more evidence surfaced raising questions about those assertions.

The vice president of a flight school in Oklahoma told The Boston Globe yesterday that three weeks before Tuesday's suicide hijackings, FBI agents interviewed him about a suspected terrorist who had trained at the school.

Dale Davis, the vice president of Airman Flight School in Norman, Okla., said FBI agents showed up at the facility asking questions about Zacarias Moussaoui, who was arrested in Minnesota last month after he tried to get flight simulator lessons on flying a commercial-size jet.

In addition, Davis said that FBI agents visited his flight school two years ago to ask questions about a former student who had been identified by federal authorities as an associate of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi-born dissident who is the prime suspect in organizing last week's hijackings.

Davis also said that two of the men who hijacked two flights out of Boston's Logan Airport last week, including Mohamed Atta, who investigators believe was the ringleader of the Boston hijackings, had visited the Norman flight school last year before deciding to attend one in Florida.

At a Washington briefing yesterday, Mueller repeated his assertion, first made Friday, that federal authorities had no inkling that terrorists were using US flight schools to acquire the training they needed to take the controls of commercial airline rs as they did on Tuesday.

''There were no warning signs that I'm aware of that would indicate this type of operation in the country,'' he said.

But the Globe reported Saturday that federal authorities have known for at least three years that two associates of bin Laden had trained in the United States as airline pilots.

The link between the Al-Qaeda terror group, allegedly led by bin Laden, and US flight schools emerged earlier this year at the trial of four men charged with the 1998 bombing of the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. At that trial, during which FBI agents were called as witnesses, an associate of bin Laden testified that he went to a flight school in Texas.

Prosecutors introduced evidence that a second associate of bin Laden, Ihab Ali Nawawi, had trained at Airman Flight School, as did Moussaoui, who is now being held in New York for questioning on suspicion that he is an associate of the hijackers.

In a telephone interview, Davis confirmed that the FBI had suspicions about Moussaoui at least three weeks before last week's disaster.

The questions FBI agents posed to him appeared to be about whether Moussaoui could have been a terrorist, Davis said, including whether the alleged Algerian militant had ever made any ''extreme comments'' about the United States.

When asked why they were inquiring about Moussaoui, Davis said, the agents replied that ''he had done something very bad.''

Davis said FBI agents had visited his school just two years earlier to inquire about Ihab Ali Nawawi, who took flight training there in 1993 and was later charged in connection with the 1998 US Embassy bombings in Africa, which were blamed on bin Laden's group.

Davis also confirmed that Atta and another suspected hijacker, Marwan al-Shehhi, visited Airman Flight School, staying overnight at the school's dormitory in the nearby Sooner Inn, before deciding to train at another facility.

''They did a school visit in July of 2000 but went elsewhere for whatever reason,'' Davis said.

The Los Angeles Times yesterday quoted an unidentified federal official saying that Moussaoui asked only for lessons on ''steering, not landing'' and cheered when he watched a news account of the suicide hijackings at the jail in Minnesota where he h as been held since last month.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #67)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:00 AM

96. "As long as I got my gun I can be perfectly content as a slave in a fascist state."

 

Doesn't seem to put much value on liberty or justice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #67)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

102. Just make sure you stay that way no matter who's in control or what they do

And you'll be fine. We're only concerned with those that rock the boat....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #102)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:23 PM

103. United we stand divided we fall

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:48 AM

2. This does not surprise me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:48 AM

3. I prefer "Stasi State", but then again I'm old school. nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:52 AM

4. And it's all information that's gathered daily by private corps we interact with all the time.

Nobody screams about privacy & civil liberties when Google & Verizon watch and record your every move for Coca-Cola & Walmart.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:34 PM

14. I very much dislike that said companies collect all that data.

That said, they are not the government, and the 4th Amendment does not apply to them. Apples and oranges.

-Laelth

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Laelth (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:09 PM

29. And the fact that corps aren't limited in what they do supposed to make me feel better?

Remember that it's the Objectivist nutcases like Ron Paul - people that Snowdon has supported in the past - that want to remove ALL restrictions on what corporations can do to you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #29)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:14 PM

31. I would certainly favor some reasonable limits.

I would certainly favor some reasonable limits on what data corps. can collect, how long they can (or must) keep it, and what they can do with it.

That does not mean I do not want some limits set on the government as well.

-Laelth

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Laelth (Reply #31)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:34 PM

39. Then perhaps Edward Snowden and the Drs. Paul shouldn't be leading the charge.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #29)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:21 PM

81. +1,000. Yes, we don't get any vote with them. We might pay cash and wear a bag over our head.

At which point 'private' security would escort one out the store. Online purchases, they got you by the short hairs. No one remembers the old saying, 'Never volunteer for anything.' It's all with our permission after we asked to join whatever...

Great excuse to go tribal and live in a cult. Glenn Beck and Joe Barton are now building a place to be 'free' again in pure Objectivist territory.

No taxes. No regulation. Also no religion of your own choice, or choosing to not join the cult. There is always a price to be paid. If you don't like that, doh.
Government exists to stifle the religious fanatics, hassle the greedy corporations and to wage class war on the rich with taxes.

Neither the corporations running the plantations nor God freed the slaves and neither gave women the right to vote, either.

I'm sticking with the secular government. Where I can argue without being crushed by the patriot version of paradise.

'Freedom and liberty.' For some. For others of us, not so much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Laelth (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:17 PM

56. Yet the 1st Amendment does? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #56)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:23 PM

59. No, the 1st Amendment does not apply to corps. either.

Corps. can make any laws they want abridging the freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, etc. (so long as, when applying these rules to their employees, they don't violate state or Federal laws, like the Civil Rights Act of 1964).

The 1st Amendment limits what the government can do. It does not limit what corps. can do.

-Laelth

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:00 PM

24. In the context of gathering information

civil liberties have to do with government intrusion - not private intrusion.

Information sharing between private corporations does not have the capability to imprison us, until it is shared with the government.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #24)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:30 PM

37. And you think multinational, multibillion dollar corps with no public accountability

have your best interests in mind when it comes to your privacy? You think they don't want to have the power to imprison you, or even kill you? You've never heard of Karen Silkwood? Or the way United Fruit and then Chiquita has treated its workers? And that every other huge industry isn't exactly the same way?

The only thing that really stands in the way of the Objectivist paradise Snowden apparently wants is the government.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:26 PM

68. There's no difference between TBTF corps and govt anymore. They feed off each other. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:59 AM

5. 1,931 (and more to come) private companies that will undoubtedly lobby to increase surveillance

even more. Profits, you know?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:01 PM

6. Damn it all ...I'm going back to snail mail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:33 PM

13. ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to n2doc (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 10:17 PM

87. Every piece of mail is scanned, front and rear.

And digitally stored.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:34 PM

15. Yes! hand written of course! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snappyturtle (Reply #15)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:35 PM

16. Non lick stamps to avoid DNA trace.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to L0oniX (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:09 PM

28. Better yet I will hand deliver everything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:16 PM

7. that is devestating.

Because it shows an entrenched industry that will never let go of the assloads of $$$ they are making. We've created another worthless, evil vampire machine that is sucking away our resources.

And that machine is now 'all knowing' and can crush anyone who dares go against it.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Locrian (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:44 PM

18. Yep, another entrenched industry, like the Prison-Industrial Complex.

And then there's the "health" insurance industry, now made even more deeply entrenched for the next few decades, dammit, thanks to the Health Insurance Protection Act, aka the ACA.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:18 PM

8. This is NOT

a problem....don't misunderstand me, I am a liberal and have voted for Democratic and liberal candidates....but....in the age of the radical extremists out to destroy us and kill our citizens and ruin our way of life are the ONLY ones who need to worry about being listened to and tracked....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:24 PM

10. Seriously? I'm sure East Germany used the same argument.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to harun (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:05 PM

26. Hardly. Were you ever there? I was in East Germany several times

I speak German and Russian and have been interrogated in East German rooms where I was the only one without an East German uniform, a weapon or the right to stand up without permission.

Believe me, we're not there yet, and don't ever want to be. Living in the "realexistierender Sozialismus" was no picnic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DFW (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:33 PM

38. Harun did not equate the US with East Germany, though.

Noting that the same arguments could be used for both regimes is not the same as saying both regimes are identical.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #38)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:47 PM

41. Agreed there.

However, if you've ever had the "honor" first hand, the implied parallel is irritating.

If you get the chance, see the German Oscar-winning film "Das Leben Der Anderen." It used some actors who had grown up in the former East Germany, and according to many former "DDR-Bürger," was an accurate depiction of life there. My short stays were more than enough. You have to have experienced the place first hand (and speak German) to begin to understand what any comparison means. Two different planets, I promise you. A better example could have been used.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DFW (Reply #41)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:53 PM

47. I would think that having been there would also want you to stop any part of a process that

even leads in that direction.

A totalitarian state does not just leap full grown out of the head of Zeus, as the goddess Athena supposedly did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #47)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:36 PM

63. Actually, in the case of East Germany, it pretty much did just that

Its founders spent WWII mostly as Stalin's guests, and he trained them to take over the minute the occupation was declared over. They didn't change much from the Nazis. Even their uniforms and their goose-steps were almost identical except for their army helmets. The Gestapo became the Stasi, but that was about the extent of it. They just declared that their part of Germany was "Nazi-free (the 1949 equivalent of "fair and balanced")" and all the former nationalist "Beamten" were suddenly socialist "Arbeiter und Bauer." It's no coincidence that the largest group of Neo-Nazis after the fall of the wall was in the East. They had never really experienced a country where elections mattered, and since the reigning "socialists" had declared that no Nazis were ever there, well, then all the fascists laying low could never have had Nazi backgrounds, could they?

Dick Cheney would have loved to lead us in that direction. Obama has nothing of the sort in mind. I graduated from the same high school (if you want to call it that) as W. I never met him, but I know where he's coming from. There were enough like him there, and his dad was the guy who interviewed me. I have spent time with Obama. We are NOT heading in that direction as long as he's president, and I'm confident that we will still not be heading in that direction if Hillary, O'Malley, or anyone else on our radar succeeds him. Obama will probably have a post-presidency like Bill Clinton, organizing charitable initiatives around the world full-time. Look at what W and Cheney are doing. Again, we are not headed in that direction. Easily said, but not easily substantiated if you've lived the real thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DFW (Reply #41)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:45 PM

74. I value your 1st Hand perspective.

Would you say that the growing Surveillance Capabilities of the US Government......are :

1)moving TOWARD that of the old East Germany?

OR

2)moving AWAY from that of old East Germany?

Have you been through any of the "checkpoints" in South Texas?
Not the Border Crossings,
but the "checkpoints" 50 or 100 miles into the interior?
Be careful.
You could have a FlashBack.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #74)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:17 AM

88. I usually don't spend much time south of Dallas

I wish I had the time to. I haven't even been to El Paso or Austin, if you can believe it. I've heard about the checkpoints. I ran into one in the 1980s in Italy, and totally freaked at being in a car with four guys stopped on a roadside by about six guys in full battle gear with machine guns all pointed at us. The era of the Brigate Rosse was almost at an end, but the Italian government seemed intent on looking "tough" all the same.

We would have to go a long way before we get to East Germany. Did you know that it was legally forbidden there for more than four people to sit together at a table at a cafè or restaurant? That's how terrified they were of their own people. They were scared some dissident movement could arise if six people were chatting together at a café where listening devices weren't in place. For that matter, when I was in Cuba, their monitoring of my telephone was so bad that I had to complain before I could hear the person on the other end of the line.

When the wall came down, and the first East Germans came for vacations in the western part of Germany, they were confused when they asked what time breakfast was. When told it was between (for example) 7:00 and 10:00, some of them (friends witnessed this) said impatiently, "yes, but what time do WE have breakfast?" You see, in East Germany, everyone at a hotel was told exactly what time their own individual breakfast was, so that their whereabouts could be monitored at all times. The concept of being able to choose your own time to have breakfast was completely foreign to them.

There are all sorts of degrees of control that State can have over your life. I know it's difficult to conceive of the degree they watched over you, but it was for real. Some friends of ours that we used to visit in East Berlin in the seventies got out after a year of trying. The woman's father was in the Stasi, and he freaked when he found that his daughter wanted to emigrate to the west. He let it happen, although I'm sure it devastated his career. Her husband was a musician, and he was so clueless about the west that he just figured that money materialized magically out of nowhere (too much western TV), and he would be off to see America as soon as he had learned some English (Russian was the obligatory first foreign language there).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:31 PM

12. If we give up some of our civil liberties in name of fighting radical extremism, then the

extremists have already won.

And I don't buy this if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about argument. The more people that they spy on the greater the chance that innocent people might be caught up in the net. And remember that under our system all citizens, whether they did something wrong or not are entitled to certain rights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to totodeinhere (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:11 PM

30. what

have the terrorists won??......answer, .....NOTHING......having served in the Army during the Viet Nam era, I have no problem with our government protecting our people......the Presidential Oath of Office specifically states protecting the constitution and the constitution is we the people.......

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #30)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:14 PM

32. My God how are they protecting the constitution?

 

In fact you could say they have decided not to protect the constitution but to protect people. They have turned it into a trade off and have decimated the 4th.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dkf (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:55 PM

48. Are they protecting the people?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #48)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:09 PM

55. So they think.

 

The Boston situation shows more than a few holes though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dkf (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:24 PM

60. Protecting it by breaking it...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #30)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:17 PM

34. You mentioned protecting the Constitution. Is wholesale spying on the American people protecting the

Constitution? I don't think so regardless of what some stooge court might say. In fact these spy programs are contrary to our constitution IMO. And yes they have won because their aim is to destroy our way of life and if we drift toward a police state then yes our way of life has been destroyed.

However even though I disagree with you I would like to thank you for your service to our country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #30)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:38 PM

40. You are conflating defending the Constitution with keeping people physically s. That does not work.

You can violate many provisions of the Constitution if your only objective is keeping people physically safe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:18 PM

57. Tell me how they are protecting the constitution.

Specifically the fourth amendment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:57 AM

93. LOL!! You're kidding right? This has to be satire....

you think that the government VIOLATING the letter and spirit of the Constitution is protecting the Constitution ???


War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

George Orwell


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:48 PM

104. They have won EVERYTHING.

If we're all so afraid of a possible nebulous attack that just might possibly take place at some point in the future that we're willing to trade away our basic rights as American citizens, then yes, they have won.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:03 PM

25. Please engage brain before posting on this board....

Are you listening to yourself? Do you suppose the Jewish people in pre-WWII Germany would have thought they were safe because "they had nothing to hide"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lastlib (Reply #25)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:06 PM

27. Uh oh, Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies

Probably better ways to argue with that poster than going the Nazi/Hitler route.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to emulatorloo (Reply #27)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:20 PM

35. I don't generally like Nazi analogies either but in this case I think that the analogy is a

valid one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to emulatorloo (Reply #27)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:48 PM

42. Godwin's rule is Mike Godwin's bullshit, designed to watch it grow as a pure meme, which,

it has, thanks to people who mistake it for the 12th commandment and repeat it as though it made sense.

This is the so-called rule, in its entirety.



It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Godwin created it, not because there is anything to it, but as an experiment in memetics. Id. See also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

Either a comparison has some validity or it doesn't. If the comparison has no validity, just say so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #42)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:35 PM

62. +1 n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #42)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:26 PM

66. Ok, sure, this is just like the Holocaust

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lastlib (Reply #25)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:57 PM

78. Oh Grow Up

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:52 PM

46. right...

gotta love the old SAFETY argument

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:22 PM

58. No, you are not a liberal. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #58)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:55 PM

77. Wrong

I have been a liberal probably before you were even born and I DO support marriage equality

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #77)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:05 PM

79. And you also support...

domestic surveillance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #79)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:54 PM

84. And you point is...........

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #84)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:48 PM

85. My point is that people...

who support the Patriot act, which violates the 4th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendments to the constitution are not liberals, no matter how hard they try to pretend to be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #85)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 03:01 AM

91. And dave is busted.

Not that he isn't obvious.

Hi, Dave.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:26 PM

75. ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 02:46 AM

89. RUIN OUR WAY OF LIFE?

American fatcats have done a GREAT job of doing just that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to titanicdave (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:55 AM

92. What a mindbogglingly naive remark.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:21 PM

9. And yet less than 50 Americans have been killed since 9/11

by terrorists.

The simple fact of the matter is that the hundreds of billions being spent are really being stolen. The MIC/Surveillance state contractors are bleeding us dry while tens of thousands die each year from lack of medical care and from guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:51 PM

19. You raise a good point. We're spending billions in the name of saving lives from terrorist attacks.

Of course I understand striving to save lives. But if we took some of that money and spent it on medical care instead might we be saving even more lives? Is the expenditure of all of this money the most efficient use of money if we want to save lives?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to totodeinhere (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:16 PM

33. It's not about "Saving Lives"

It's about looting the public treasury to feed the wallets and Coffers of a Few "Pig" Capitalists and their Corporations

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:52 PM

20. Are you forgetting the thousands of soldiers that have died since 9/11?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to thelordofhell (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:58 PM

49. No one forced us to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, or to stay in Afghanistan this long.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 05:07 PM

71. Tell that to the MIC

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to thelordofhell (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:32 PM

61. They are a volunteer army...

occupying foreign countries. If we were occupied by a foreign army, and we attacked the occupiers, we would not be terrorists- well, maybe from their point of view, but not from an objective POV.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 06:37 AM

94. They would argue that they create and maintain thousands of high-paying jobs.

And that those thousands of employees do bring food on their family tables every day.

Who would like to see them all go jobless all of a sudden?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:41 PM

17. This makes me think of Rachel Maddow's MSNBC promo ad that says

Americans don't build great things anymore. She was pictured at the Hoover Dam. Maybe she should re-think her remark. Another candidate should be the Baghdad embassy. Meanwhile, back in the "Homeland" bridges are collapsing and schools discinegrating....go figure.

Edit: Forgot to add link with alittle more insight:
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-washington-post-backtracks-on-claim-tech-companies-participate-knowingly-in-the-nsas-data-collection-2013-6

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snappyturtle (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:01 PM

50. One would have thought that the economic collapse of 2008 would have provided a great

excuse for us to start building big things again, or at least to shore up the big things we've already built, like bridges whose soundness is dicey.

But, we went another way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #50)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:07 PM

52. Exactly. Sad. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:53 PM

21. I think they're trying to figure out who in the citizenry to kill off and when.

They want to know what's most profitable for them. They being, of course, the the gazillionaires who own the world and everything in it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to valerief (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:51 PM

45. The surveillance makes me think we're the ones they consider enemies.

Are we sure Edgar Hoover and Joe McCarthy are really dead?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #45)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:29 AM

99. We ARE the enemies of the gazillionaires. If we weren't, they'd share and wouldn't be gazillionaires

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:59 PM

23. Time to rein in Big Government!

Tea Partiers/Republicans, Where Are You?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:29 PM

36. And still, many won't believe where this is headed.....


They keep trying to tell us. It sounds so absurd, no one wants to even consider it. And if you repeat it, you're just another crazy CT. That's the beauty of it. It's a self-correcting system of oversight integrity which relies principally upon its victims to protect its existence through their own ignorance and incredulity. And through the constant use of ridicule against those able to see things more objectively and realistically, they maintain a consistent hard outer shell made of incredulous, unknowing people. Because it is understood in our society that being accused of being stupid is the one thing an truly ignorant person hates to be accused of the most.


K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DeSwiss (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:49 PM

44. Thank you.

Please post this as a separate thread in the videos. It is prophetic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:48 PM

43. We all have better things to do than spend our time being

so paranoid that we construct that sort of apparatus TO SPY ON OURSELVES.

What would you do with a person who covered his walls with mirrors so that he could watch himself and make sure he wasn't doing anything stupid, wrong or, God forbid, sinful?

I knew a woman who spent hours and hours writing down her random thoughts. The notes were illegible and neither she nor anyone else ever read them. What a life?

How about the person who spends hours and hours staring in the mirror just to get every hair in place and every eyebrow perfectly plucked. We consider that person to be narcissistic and perhaps ultimately self-destructive.

But that is my opinion of these people? What is yours? Are they living healthy, productive lives? I think not. Life is not about looking at yourself in a mirror or scribbling your every thought.

Yet this surveillance state is ourselves watching ourselves and recording all our contacts. It's sick. It's a huge waste of money and time. It produces nothing. It educates no one. It heals no one. It is an inversion of the most sinful and sick sort.

I'm just horrified. As a society, how paranoid and useless have we become?

What a waste of perfectly good lives.

You NSA guys. You only get 16 waking hours per day. You live maybe 80 years. Do the math. How many of those hours do you want to spend staring in the mirror of America? It's crazy. You are wasting your time and hours. Most Americans are rather boring. Terrorists could be found through other, less intrusive, more accurate means. You are wasting our money and bankrupting the very people who feed you.

End this absurdity. We do need intelligence. But there is nothing intelligent about surrounding yourself with mirrors so that you can watch your every move from every angle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:06 PM

51. "Welcome" suggests it is new.

It is not new. We have been there since the Bush administration and some would argure it started far sooner than this.

We still need to get rid of the Patriot Act and the majority of the Democrats in the house voted against reauthorizing it in 2011. Almost 90% of the Republicans voted for it while two-thirds of Democrats voted against it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/09/us-usa-irs-scrutiny-idUSBRE9580A820130609

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:08 PM

53. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:09 PM

54. We had

the MIC and now we also have the SIC but remember folks we can't afford to help the poor and social security spending will have to be cut.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:55 PM

64. $1 trillion per year is budgeted to this monstrous for-profit Terror-Industrial Complex:

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022962893

Thank you very much for the post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:25 PM

65. From his grave in the briny deep, Bin Laden is smiling

as he watches us continue to swivet ourselves into a Gordian knot even Solomon couldn't unreel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:36 PM

69. So, you're saying that George Bush did actually create jobs.

That's very interesting.

"Since Sept 11 . . ."

Well, putting two and two together shouldn't be too hard now, should it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:49 PM

70. On the brighter side, think of all the jobs that have been created...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 05:56 PM

72. It's not a war on terror, it's a war on American citizens.

And the Plutocrats are winning.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:13 PM

73. Election thefts cost a lot

And so did 9/11. Somebody had to get their money's worth, and it looks like a lot of people got their money's worth. Until we re-investigate 9/11, we will never know the truth of how ALL these companies got these contracts. They ONLY got them due to 9/11. I wonder if the Pentagon got their blurry camera fixed. I guess their surveillance plans didn't mean them.

What a waste of money. Think of all the schools that could have been built for the 21st Century, with good teachers with all this money.
We will never get anywhere till we investigate 9/11 AGAIN. I hope Bush/Cheney are shaking in their boots every time 9/11 comes up, because the more they dig, the more shit comes up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:28 PM

76. And yet ... AUSTERITY NOW! AUSTERITY FOREVER!

We're all Germans now

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:10 PM

80. And bridges are crumbling

Roads are in sad shape. Levees along the Mississippi are substandard. Oklahoma has no tornado shelters for schools.

But goddamn it, this country will be FREE of a handful of radical subversives.

God loves America. Just not as much as he used to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:24 PM

82. Check out available jobs in just about any company that contracts with the government in

the DC area. Huge number of openings for "cyber warriors." Jobs always require full on top secret clearance with full polygraph. Government is bound and determined not to hire anyone likely to spill the beans. Nothing they hate worse than an employee with a conscience.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:34 PM

83. Whe were these secure complexes built?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 10:13 PM

86. Just think of all those

gainfully employed US citizens...




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:34 AM

95. We should at least get free cell phone & ISP service.

Fuckers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:26 AM

98. So Skinner, not feeling the love of the Total Information Awareness?

Not okay under bush, not okay under obama.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:01 PM

100. Land of the free (?)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:12 PM

101. 33,900 requests in 33 years of FISA ... about 1,000 a year.

Think about that for a second. ~1000 requests a year.

That seems like a very SMALL number given that some claim we now live in a police state.

10s of Millions of pieces of data ... and yet only about 1000 requests a year?

I'd have expected the number to be much higher.

Could it be that the very existence of the FISA court causes the investigators to be more cautious in what requests they bring forward?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread