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Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:48 PM

Dog skull found in Siberia is 33,000 years old - and hints that man's best friend didn't come from o

An ancient dog skull preserved in a cave in the Altai Mountains of Siberia for 33,000 years has turned our ideas of man's relationship with his 'best friend' on its head.

The skull is the remains of one of the oldest examples of a domesticated dog ever found - and its sheer age, combined with equally ancient dog remains from a cave in Belgium, hints that humans may have domesticated dogs in several places.

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The Siberian skull is extraordinarily well-preserved. The scientists were able to take multiple measurements of its skull, teeth and jaws.

The researchers are convinced it was domesticated - but it also doesn't appear to be an ancestor of today's dogs.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2091192/Dog-skull-Siberia-33-000-years-old--hints-mans-best-friend-didnt-come-single-ancestor.html#ixzz1kQVZTJOo

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Reply Dog skull found in Siberia is 33,000 years old - and hints that man's best friend didn't come from o (Original post)
dipsydoodle Jan 2012 OP
alfredo Jan 2012 #1
AlbertCat Jan 2012 #5
alfredo Jan 2012 #10
ejbr Jan 2012 #2
Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #14
xchrom Jan 2012 #3
dipsydoodle Jan 2012 #4
OnyxCollie Jan 2012 #6
Myrina Jan 2012 #8
alfredo Jan 2012 #11
meti57b Jan 2012 #16
mopinko Jan 2012 #7
dipsydoodle Jan 2012 #9
mopinko Jan 2012 #17
dipsydoodle Jan 2012 #18
Tumbulu Jan 2012 #12
lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #13
Odin2005 Jan 2012 #19
bvar22 Jan 2012 #15
Odin2005 Jan 2012 #20

Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:57 AM

1. Kick for our dog lover friends

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Response to alfredo (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 09:44 AM

5. Kick for our dog lover friends

Don't kick the dog!!!!


Oh wait....

Never mind.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 11:58 AM

10. Ha!

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 07:31 AM

2. Awwwww

A 33,000 year old pooch!

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Response to ejbr (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 02:48 PM

14. In human years that would be a 198,000 year old pooch.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 07:33 AM

3. X post this in science group, dipsy -- and it'll get wider exposure.

although by the recs -- you're not doing bad.

go dogs!

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Response to xchrom (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 08:03 AM

4. Done and I notice that the Mail has changed the narrative now.

The post in Science reflects that.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 10:39 AM

6. I'll believe the dog is domesticated

when they uncover a 33,000 year old squeaky toy.

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 10:51 AM

8. Thank you.

How can they tell it's 'personality' or living habits based solely on a skull?

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Response to Myrina (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:01 PM

11. The Rhinestone collar was a big tip off.

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Response to alfredo (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 07:19 PM

16. LOL!!!

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 10:48 AM

7. pretty fact free article.

sheesh

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Response to mopinko (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 11:08 AM

9. Read this instead then

A 33,000-Year-Old Incipient Dog from the Altai Mountains of Siberia: Evidence of the Earliest Domestication Disrupted by the Last Glacial Maximum.

Background

Virtually all well-documented remains of early domestic dog (Canis familiaris) come from the late Glacial and early Holocene periods (ca. 14,0009000 calendar years ago, cal BP), with few putative dogs found prior to the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM, ca. 26,50019,000 cal BP). The dearth of pre-LGM dog-like canids and incomplete state of their preservation has until now prevented an understanding of the morphological features of transitional forms between wild wolves and domesticated dogs in temporal perspective.
Methodology/Principal Finding

We describe the well-preserved remains of a dog-like canid from the Razboinichya Cave (Altai Mountains of southern Siberia). Because of the extraordinary preservation of the material, including skull, mandibles (both sides) and teeth, it was possible to conduct a complete morphological description and comparison with representative examples of pre-LGM wild wolves, modern wolves, prehistoric domesticated dogs, and early dog-like canids, using morphological criteria to distinguish between wolves and dogs. It was found that the Razboinichya Cave individual is most similar to fully domesticated dogs from Greenland (about 1000 years old), and unlike ancient and modern wolves, and putative dogs from Eliseevichi I site in central Russia. Direct AMS radiocarbon dating of the skull and mandible of the Razboinichya canid conducted in three independent laboratories resulted in highly compatible ages, with average value of ca. 33,000 cal BP.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0022821#s5

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 26, 2012, 09:58 AM

17. cool. thanks.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 26, 2012, 10:06 AM

18. Your welcome

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:38 PM

12. Temple Grandin's theory is that wolves and pre-humans evolved together

to become dogs and humans.

I highly recommend "Animals in Translation" for a full and accurate explanation of her theory.

She begins that timeline at about 100,000 years ago and presents some compelling evidence.

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 01:16 PM

13. Dogs and people are oddly symbiotic.

I find it astonishing how a dog is born to be a companion.

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 26, 2012, 01:30 PM

19. I agree with that theory.

Dogs evolved from wolves that scavenged the camps of hunter-gatherers, they were never purposefully domesticated.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 02:53 PM

15. Great article, but they misinterpreted the finding.

This is the first known example of a Human serving his Doggie Overlords.

The 33,000 year old Siberian Pooper Scooper in the hand of the Human fossil proves this beyond any doubt.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 26, 2012, 01:31 PM

20. LMAO!

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