Global Capitalism, the US Empire and Russian Nationalism

[Jefferson23]

Leo Panitch analyzes the complex relationship between the process of global economic integration and nation state rivalry -

May 11, 14

Transcript:

snip*LEO PANITCH, PROF. OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, YORK UNIVERSITY: Really happy to talk to you about this, Paul.

JAY: So if one--of course, it's a very complex situation in the Ukraine, As all these situations are now, Syria and otherwise, in the sense that there's always very complex domestic factors and very complex external players all fishing in troubled waters and trying to manipulate the situation so the outcome is in their benefit. But if we look at the situation through the lens of the American-Russian relationship, there's a particular thing that seems to me--there's kind of two processes that go on. One is all the economic integration, the dependency of the Russians on European oil markets, and vice versa, the dependence of the Europeans on Russian energy. But, also, large amounts of capital go back and forth and investments back and forth and banking structures at all the things that are part of modern globalization. But then you also have this grand chessboard old-style rivalry that seems to go on, were you have what people call the encirclement of Russia by the Americans. You have--you know, it's old 20th century, the type of things that, you know, did lead to war in those days. Maybe--you know, the nuclear bomb maybe has mitigated that. But there seems--each of these processes seems to have their own logic. What do you make of this?

PANITCH: Well, first of all, there's no good guys in this. I think one has to say that, against the remarkable tone of the Western media, which is astonishingly single-minded in its presentation of Russian aggression all of a sudden, with the United States in the position of really trying to bring the Ukraine into NATO and completely encircling Russia; on the other hand, you know, the Russian oligarchs and the authoritarian Kremlin, not to speak of the extreme right-wing nationalism that is so powerful now in the Western Ukraine and the old-style Russian nationalism. There's no good guys in this story whatsoever.

So, having a sober conversation about this is really a pleasure. And I think you put your finger on what's going on. The fact that globalization, economic globalization, capitalist globalization, has occurred through states precisely has meant that the politics of states has not been done away with. Those people who thought that economic globalization was about bypassing states, multinational corporations, escaping their control, etc., etc., not at all. It's taken place through states. And that means that insofar as states define themselves in national terms, in nationalist terms, create all kinds of mythologies of citizenship and so on, that you get this kind of friction, expression of international relations still in terms that are not only global capitalist but are also nationalist.

And, you know, over this whole process of neoliberal globalization, we've seen nationalisms exploding like firecrackers across the world, partly to do with the breakup of the Soviet Union, but not only. You see it in Africa, etc. So nationalist consciousness doesn't go away with economic integration.

I guess what we're seeing here is, I think, as you know, that the United States is the Empire of global capitalism. In the absence of a transnational state, it's fallen to the American state. The American state's been burdened with being the economic manager of global capitalism.

But it's a very, very messy and irrational world. I don't take the view that the United States caused Ukrainian nationalism to suddenly blow up. It blew up, and it had partly to do with the attempted economic integration, which the Ukrainians were pushing more than the Europeans. It had partly to do with American geopolitics, their ambition to take all of Eastern Europe into NATO. But it's something they couldn't control. And now there's a mess in their hands. And I also think that's Russia, the case of Russia.

in full: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11840

[pscot]

1. mythologies of Citizenship

now compete with mythologies of Empire and mythologies of Global Capitalism

[Jefferson23]

2. I found his reasoning well thought out and pretty much spot on. n/t

[Igel]

3. The real surprise is that Panitch is surprised.

He knew the US was bad. It's almost a shock for him to find out that there's somebody else bad.

Viewed close enough, a mote appears to be much smaller than that sequoia a few hundred feet away.

[Jefferson23]

4. Honestly? I did not get that impression of him at all, he seemed rather unsurprised to me;

I point to his remark about having a refreshing conversation about it.

Maybe we are seeing his remarks about the Western media differently...I don't know.

[pscot]

5. I saw it the same way

Viewing the world solely through the American media is bad for one's mental health.

[Jefferson23]

6. Yes, I think he gave a fair account all considered. n/t