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Bucky

(53,795 posts)
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 06:51 PM Nov 2013

TPM Article on JFK assassination on the conspiracies cluster

x-posted to American History forum

from Josh Marshall, Talking Points Memo ==> http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/watching-the-kennedy-assassination

For what it's worth, I don't 'believe' any of the conspiracy theories, at least not as far as it goes. But watching this unfold, experiencing it in a sense, renewed my total understanding with how the country has never been able to shake an undying suspicion about just what happened. The available evidence doesn't point to one or two potential conspiracies but to an almost countless number. 'Points', doesn't prove or even make likely. But the bread crumbs are everywhere.

Probably twenty years ago, I read a transcript of a talk by Norman Mailer, presumably in preparation for writing Oswald's Tale. There's no question that the CIA and other arms of the federal government covered up a lot that was related to the assassination. Not a 'cover up' per se, but kept a lot of information from the public. The simplest answer is that there was just a lot of stuff that didn't incriminate the government but which the public simply couldn't be allowed to know - the attempts on Castro's life, the connections with the mob and so much more.

Mailor's take was different and appropriately novelistic in its contingency. Mailer said the CIA in particular was so cagey and institutionally dishonest not because it had anything to do with Kennedy's death but because the Agency had so many ties and operations and assets in and around so many people Oswald was connected to that they couldn't be sure they didn't have anything to do with it.
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TPM Article on JFK assassination on the conspiracies cluster (Original Post) Bucky Nov 2013 OP
"The bread crumbs are everywhere." yellowcanine Nov 2013 #1
Supply and demand, my love Bucky Nov 2013 #2
Great summary: "cobbling together already debunked factoids to create a 'new' narrative" John1956PA Nov 2013 #4
kick to read later nt grasswire Nov 2013 #3
The wild piled knot polynomial Nov 2013 #5
tortured logic icarusxat Nov 2013 #6
Nice post! BlueMTexpat Nov 2013 #7
This is the first time I've heard the "JFK was killed by grammar nazis" conspiracy theory Bucky Nov 2013 #8
I think that's Polynomial's point: "Here's yet another, new one!" dougolat Nov 2013 #10
Operation Northwoods is all you need to know: blkmusclmachine Nov 2013 #9

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
1. "The bread crumbs are everywhere."
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:08 PM
Nov 2013

That's because every time the bread crumbs are swept up and proven to be nothing but bread crumbs a whole bunch of people cut some more bread slices and spread crumbs everywhere again. In other words, as with the 9-11 Truthers, no matter how many times the actual evidence debunks a conspiracy theory, someone else spews out another book, article or blog cobbling together already debunked factoids to create a "new" narrative.

John1956PA

(2,654 posts)
4. Great summary: "cobbling together already debunked factoids to create a 'new' narrative"
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:52 PM
Nov 2013

It is indeed tiresome and time-consuming to conduct the research necessary to dispel the assertions contained the never-ending stream of "new" narratives which, as you indicate, are rehashes of discredited tales.

polynomial

(750 posts)
5. The wild piled knot
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 12:44 AM
Nov 2013

When Kennedy got shot I was deep into my studies in electronics at my work bench, only a third year student in high school. I had several television sets to refurbish to make operational. So I had the chance to see a few channels reporting the news at one time. I was devastated at the news.

Now, reflecting on political people and knowing there is greed here in America that exists with the passion to murder a president, any president that does not play the game. America has a very vicious a very connected inner society that is isolated from the general mass population. Loaded with business money changers, domestic, and foreign that tilt the fair play in life.

When you listen to Kenney’s famous words “Ask not what your country can do for you”. Yes parsing this a little in this first part. The Syntax of this short beginning is what is called a conditional negative.

“Ask not”, is one of the worst kinds of statements to tangle in semantics in modern language. That “not” stuff is what flourished in the sixteenth century. With that said bringing modern speech blended with old Kings English was from my view a terrible mistake that took his life away. That time of old English embodied a tyrannical conditional negative and double negative era of rhetoric. Confusion on a level that was hard to predict with the double answers that went to hell.

Think about it and the American audience at the time grieving however in a large part many thinking how could this man even suggest; Not to ask what your country can do for you! Or take the second part: Ask what you can do for your country? Does that mean pay taxes? As I really think through it, it could be interpreted as one of the most arrogant self-center egotistical statements ever made by a president. Enough to get a whole section of the country mad, perhaps the business section really upset, no they went mad and rid of him.

Please understand I adored Kennedy at the time and still do, however mainly because of the science in education he invoked in America. Two years later I enlisted in the army to become a Vietnam era veteran, I asked not but I did so do something for my country even though in my view the way Kennedy said it was totally unacceptable.

icarusxat

(403 posts)
6. tortured logic
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 02:02 AM
Nov 2013

Not sure if you read what you wrote ( I am often guilty of this) but, I pay my taxes knowing that much of what I contribute to the general welfare will actually get there. I also took my country's shilling (no wait, that is the British thing to do)...

I did serve in the military. I wanted to know what was going on...and to do something for my country.

Arrogant? Oh, that's right JFK went awol from the national guard (or was that someone else).

I did something for my country. According to your account so did you. The rest of your post makes very little sense. imho

"one of the most arrogant self-center egotistical statements ever made by a president?"

Try "mission accomplished"

BlueMTexpat

(15,349 posts)
7. Nice post!
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 07:55 AM
Nov 2013

I also served, but as a Peace Corps Volunteer. Many of my peers did both because at that time (the 60s), the draft was still in force. As a female, I was exempt from the draft. The military is not the only avenue of service to one's country, although those who serve honorably should always be appreciated.

My professional career was overwhelmingly spent in public service and yes, that service was in part inspired both by JFK's rhetoric (however anyone wants to characterize it) and example.

I totally agree with "Mission Accomplished" being one of the most arrogant statements ever made.

The only things that Bush's rhetoric and example ever inspired me to do: 1) to puke and 2) to work very hard at getting Democrats elected wherever and whenever I can.

Bucky

(53,795 posts)
8. This is the first time I've heard the "JFK was killed by grammar nazis" conspiracy theory
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 03:42 PM
Nov 2013

The difficult decision on how to serve our country is the question I think Kennedy was telling us to ask.

dougolat

(716 posts)
10. I think that's Polynomial's point: "Here's yet another, new one!"
Wed Nov 27, 2013, 05:50 AM
Nov 2013

Last edited Wed Nov 27, 2013, 06:05 PM - Edit history (1)

And the linked article made the point that there's no possible omniscient plot, there was such a carnival of motives and operatives (like Mohrenschildt!) that the right hand didn't know what the left was doing; cross purposes, deniability, and confusion galore - we'll never really know.

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