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yurbud

(39,405 posts)
Sun Jul 21, 2013, 02:05 PM Jul 2013

RAVITCH: when the rich dictate higher ed policy: San Jose Online Courses FLOP

I have nothing against online education in principle, but I don't like doing anything because schools are coerced into doing it by someone looking to make a buck.

I teach college and the only advantage my students see to online classes is it is much, much easier to cheat.

So if Gates et al succeed in their efforts to remake make public higher education in their image, they will make the resulting degrees nearly worthless.

San Jose Online Courses Flop

by Diane Ravitch

Enthusiasts of online education are forever gushing about the prospects for high-quality, low-cost education, delivered to masses of students sitting at a computer.

In January, San Jose State announced a partnership with a firm called Udacity, and the results to date have been a disappointment. Udacity is funded by equity investors as the next new big thing. Technically, the Udacity program is not a MOOC because it is neither "massive" nor "open," but it is a trial of the concept of online learning.

"According to the preliminary presentation, 74 percent or more of the students in traditional classes passed, while no more than 51 percent of Udacity students passed any of the three courses....The spring courses – a remedial math course, a college algebra course and an introductory statistics course – were chosen in part because of the wishes of Bill Gates, whose foundation gave the effort a grant," university officials said.

The university will make improvements in the courses and try again. Udacity is expanding to Georgia, where "the company recently signed a major deal with the Georgia Institute of Technology to eventually offer a low-cost online master’s degree to 10,000 students at once."

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yurbud

(39,405 posts)
2. except it's not working. Kids are jaded and pissed off at the same time
Sun Jul 21, 2013, 07:02 PM
Jul 2013

they know they are getting the shaft.

Simian20

(12 posts)
12. Ravitch ripped apart Race to the Top, cited ideologues controlling public policy
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 08:45 AM
Aug 2013

Diane Ravitch yesterday cited Arne Duncan blowing up at Georgia for pulling out of the PARCC test (Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers). She made great comments ripping CCSS:
(The test is for testing alignment with the Common Core, and Duncan said that he was holding million$ from GA. CC & PARCC type tests are needed for complying with RttT.)
"Arne Gets Angry at Georgia"
http://dianeravitch.net/2013/07/31/arne-gets-angry-at-georgia/comment-page-1/
"Now for a dose of reality. Research does not support any part of Race to the Top. Research shows that tying educator evaluations to test scores produces narrowing the curriculum, gaming the system, teaching to the test, cheating, and score inflation. The most “effective” teachers teach the most affluent students in the most affluent schools. The least “effective” teach the poorest. Research shows that over 100 years of trying, merit pay has Never worked. Teachers are doing the best they know how; they are not holding back and hoping for a bonus or a biscuit.

"Race to the Top will someday be remembered in the history books as a Grand Detour, when ideologues gained control of federal policy and used an economic crisis to dangle money in front of the states so they would agree to implement failed policies.

"All of this will change, but not until there is wiser leadership in Washington, wise enough to banish Race to the Top and recover a common sense approach to education reform based on what children and schools need, not what misguided politicians demand."

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
10. people need to start telling him that over and over until he gets it
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 03:29 PM
Jul 2013

You won't be remembered for microsoft--you'll be remembered as the rich asshole who destroyed public education.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
6. Online courses.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 01:58 PM
Jul 2013

Not a stupid idea.

But you need to screen who takes them, at least in public schools.

Too easy to focus on memorization. Too easy to postpone work until just before the test. Cram, test, and forget. Repetition and practice. Thoughtful consideration and close reading. Working problems or answering questions that require thought.

Too easy to not be "on the spot" and keep yourself surrounded by the material on paper (or on screen) when it has to be in your head. Too easy to cheat. Too easy to self-scaffold to the point that you're unable to do much but lie on the scaffold.

Too easy not to form connections because forming connections and integrating knowledge is work.

The difference is self-discipline or, if the kids have none, parents and teachers. Which usually just means "teachers" when it comes to kids who need remedial classes.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
7. and online ed is being sold all the way down to kindergarten
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 02:03 PM
Jul 2013

not much self-discipline going on when you just mastered holding your poop in until you sit on the pot.

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
8. Ha! Nice analogy. I was schooled in low classroom to faculty ratio settings in Public grade school
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 02:51 PM
Jul 2013

and college. Needless to say, I know my strengths and weaknesses quite well. I love discussion, debate, and group projects. It's definitely shaped my political views.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
9. I didn't do well with large in person classes at university and took a video course once
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 03:28 PM
Jul 2013

in psychology (the precursor to online ed).

I fell asleep in the first five minutes of the first tape, so I dropped the class.

CRK7376

(2,190 posts)
11. I've earned three
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:45 PM
Jul 2013

Master's degrees through online education and none of them were easy, especially my last one at the Army War College. I prefer brick and mortar education, but time and money dictated on- line education and it works for me. One of our sons is taking an online Criminal Justice course through UNC-Wilmington and he works on the course everyday. We were recently on a family vacation and he was reading his textbook and supplement books, wrote a paper and took a test all online. Had several email/text conversations with his professor. We know it works, he is doing well in the class, has a 88-92 average in the class so far with one more paper and test due this Friday. He's taking it seriously. He also knows it's alot easier to sit in a brick and mortar classroom with a teacher up front, but by taking an online class in summer school, he frees up his fall semester for other pursuits in education. Smart kid. But if you don't have good time management skills, don't do the work and try to wing it at the last minute, online education does not work out very well.

mainer

(12,013 posts)
13. Online courses require motivated students
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 10:16 AM
Aug 2013

And let's face it, most people are not motivated to work unless they're forced to or someone takes attendance.

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