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Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:49 AM

The Draft: A War-Killer (xpost from Veterans)

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/14742-the-draft-a-war-killer



The Draft: A War-Killer
Saturday, 23 February 2013 10:53 By Thom Hartmann, The Daily Take | Op-Ed

Next month marks the tenth anniversary of the beginning of our war in Iraq. It's been ten years since alleged war criminals, including Bush and Cheney, knowingly used lies to send our men and women to war . As a result of those lies, over the past decade, thousands of American men and women have died, tens of thousands are wounded, over a hundred thousand Iraqi human beings are dead, and over 15 million have had their lives ripped apart.

So, the question: Would we still be in Iraq today – or even have gone to war with Iraq – if there was a military draft in this country?

Look at our involvements in past wars. From the Civil War to World Wars I and II, the Korean War, and even Vietnam, the United States had a military draft - and those wars were all far shorter than the Iraq debacle.

Coincidence? I think not...

14 replies, 1913 views

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Draft: A War-Killer (xpost from Veterans) (Original post)
unhappycamper Feb 2013 OP
GiveMeFreedom Feb 2013 #1
elleng Feb 2013 #2
daybranch Feb 2013 #3
JayhawkSD Feb 2013 #4
Adsos Letter Feb 2013 #5
hack89 Feb 2013 #6
bluedigger Feb 2013 #7
hack89 Feb 2013 #8
bluedigger Feb 2013 #9
hack89 Feb 2013 #10
bluedigger Feb 2013 #11
hack89 Feb 2013 #12
hack89 Feb 2013 #13
rachel1 Feb 2013 #14

Response to unhappycamper (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:45 PM

1. When I was a kid

the draft ended in 1973, so I volunteered for the Navy in 75. The reason was because the girl who lived across the street and I, were caught in bed at 16 years old. I moved to my mom's for a year, then joined the Navy. Here dad was pretty mad. All is well after 40 years.

That was my reason for joining, but today I think young adults are finding no jobs and no future, so the military becomes the best bet for gainful employment. The corporate/military industrial complex needs bodies to fulfill there conquest goals. By making people poor, the only way "up and out" of poverty is often through the military. As times grow desperate for many young adults, joining the military is 3 hots and a cot, a possible future with retirement. So what if you have to kill some "fur 'in neers" to get fed, their not humans anyway.

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Response to unhappycamper (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:38 PM

3. So sad for our young

I have always been a big supporter of the draft as a way to stop needless wars, anddistribute the burden of patriotism more fairly at least when there is a lottery system.
While I still favor a draft, I am less sure of its effectiveness in preventing wars. During the 60s the public started revolting but the system has been changed and how much the revolt matters now is questionable and whether the MSM would even let the revolt be visible is unclear.
Today we have a House of Representatives the majority of which who clearly do not care what the people want and face no penalty for it. The republicans demonstrated in 2010 and again in 2012 with tools such as controls of the primary, public apathy for primaries, and gerrymandering they did not need the majority of voters and could simply cater to the rich. It is sad to say but this is much worse than the system that existed during the Vietnam War where everyone was affected and saw them selves as connected in the war. Today so many like the rich would just turn a blind eye unless it was their son's or daughters but it will not be. They have too much power and the only way to make things fair is by fair voting, and consequences for bad decisions. Lets stop Gerrymandering now! Our children need us.

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Response to unhappycamper (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:31 AM

4. The Germans ended their draft only a few years ago

The draft was enshrined in their new constitution, drafted after WW2. The reason for the draft, and for their reluctance to end it, was to assure that the government could never again manipulate the military as the Weimar had done.

Ring any bells?

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Response to unhappycamper (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:32 PM

5. It certainly made a difference in ending the Vietnam War.

Whether or not it would have made a difference in Iraq...I don't know. I don't think it would have made a difference in Afghanistan. It isn't in the list of conflicts cited in the OP, and it probably is best for me not to conflate the two, but I think passions were so high after 9/11 that we would have gone, draft or no.

However, I think we would have been out of both conflicts long ago had everyone had skin in the game.

And who knows...if there had been some way to assure that the privileged, Democrat, Republican, Whatever, were subject to the exact same possibility of getting their ass shot off as any other citizen, then perhaps we wouldn't have gone into Iraq at all.

If they are going to institute a draft, THAT is the loophole that needs to be addressed.

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Response to unhappycamper (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 04:11 PM

6. I doubt it.

the majority of the military will still be volunteers - they have had no problems meeting enlistment quotas.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:28 PM

7. Enlistment bonuses help with that just a bit.

You assume that those would remain in place if a draft were reinstated. I doubt patriotism alone would fill the ranks. Incentives or coercion seem to be necessary to keep a standing army in peacetime or while engaged in wars of aggression.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:18 AM

8. It has never been harder to get into the military

there are no enlistment bonuses. They are turning away people. There is no reason to believe that a draft would change that.

Don't forget that the military is downsizing - they are actually looking for ways to get rid of people.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:12 AM

9. I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about.

The Army High-Demand MOS Bonus

Applicants who enlist for three or more years in the following jobs may qualify for bonuses up to $15,000:
Infantryman (11X)
Cannon Crewmember (13B)
Field Artillery Automated Tactical Data Systems Specialist (13D)
Fire Support Specialist (13F)
Multiple Launch Rocket System Crewmember (13M)
Field Artillery Firefinder Radar Operator (13R)
PATRIOT Missile System Enhanced Operator (14E)
PATRIOT Launching Station Enhanced Operator (14T)
Air Defense Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence Tactical Operations Center Operator/Maintainer (14J)
* Special Forces Candidate (18X)
* Satellite Communication Systems Operator/Maintainers (25S)
Light Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic (63B)
Quartermaster and Chemical Equipment Repairer (63J)
Motor Transport Operator (88M)
* Explosive Ordnance Disposal Specialist (89D)
* Petroleum Supply Specialist (92F)
Food Service Operations (92G)
* Radio and Communications Security Repairer (94E)
* Special Electronic Devices Repairer (94F)
* Electronic Warfare/Cryptologic Operations Specialist (98X)
Parachute Rigger (92R)
Ammunition Specialist (89B)
Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) Automated Tactical Data Systems Specialist (13P)
* Minimum term of service is four or more years
High School Senior Bonus

Qualified high school seniors who have already contracted or plan to join the active Army and agree to report for training before Sept. 30 can receive an additional cash enlistment bonus, provided they complete high school and receive their diplomas.
Higher Education Bonus

Active Duty and Army Reserve applicants may be rewarded for their civilian educational experience.
Active Duty Applicants:
Qualified applicants who enlist for two or more years may receive one of the following bonuses for civilian education:
Bachelor\\'s degree—$8,000
Associate or two-year degree—$7,000
High school graduates with 60 or more college semester hours—$6,000
High school graduates with 30 to 59 college semester hours—$3,000
Reserve Applicants:
Qualified non-prior service applicants who enlist for three to six years may receive one of the following bonuses for civilian education:
Bachelor\\'s degree—$4,000
Associate or two-year degree—$3,000
High school graduates with 60 or more college semester hours—$2,000
High school graduates with 30 to 59 college semester hours—$1,000
Civilian Skill Bonus

Qualified applicants who possess civilian skills that the Army needs—such as proficiency in certain foreign languages, X-Ray certification or specialties in animal care—may be eligible for a $5,000 bonus.
Qualified Army Reserve applicants who already have civilian skills that the Army Reserve needs and enlist for six years in a critical skill specialty may be eligible for a $10,000 bonus.
Army Airborne Bonus

Qualified applicants who enlist for airborne training and a guaranteed Airborne assignment may be eligible for a $3,000 or $6,000 bonus, depending on the job they choose.
Officer Candidate School

Soldiers who enlist for and complete Officer Candidate School (OCS) in an eligible Area of Concentration may receive the following bonus.
Army Reserve OCS Bonus

Up to $10,000 bonus payable upon successful completion of OCS training and commissioning.
Warrant Officer Flight Training Bonus

Soldiers who enlist for and complete Warrant Officer Flight School (WOFT) in an eligible Area of Concentration may qualify for a bonus of up to $10,000.
Middle Eastern Translator Aid Bonus

Individuals who speak certain Middle-Eastern languages and enlist as Translator Aides in the U.S. Army Individual Ready Reserve are eligible for a $10,000 enlistment bonus.
NOTE: Bonuses can be combined with the Army Loan Repayment incentive or the Army College Fund. Bonus amounts, eligibility criteria and qualifying Military Occupational Specialties change frequently. Contact your local recruiter to find out what the current bonuses are and which you may qualify for.http://www.military.com/recruiting/bonus-center/news/scoop-on-army-enlistment-bonuses


The right combination of skills/education can get you as much as $40k. High unemployment rates always help, of course - I enlisted with a college degree in 1982. I got $5,000.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:18 AM

10. Presently only two MOSs are eligible for enlistment bonuses

The Army’s dwindling menu of enlistment bonus opportunities remains frozen at two specialties, a reflection of the service’s ongoing success at recruiting quality for the active component.

Under changes to the Enlistment Bonus Incentive Program announced Jan. 11, only MOS 09L, interpreter/translator, and 35P, cryptologic linguist, remain linked to traditional enlistment bonuses.

Five years ago, as the Army was growing, enlistment bonuses were available in nearly 80 military occupational specialties.


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2013/01/army-enlistment-bonuses-limited-to-09L-35P-012313/

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Response to hack89 (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:04 AM

11. Thanks for the update.

I obviously didn't come up with that source when I searched.

It's difficult to get up to date information, which is probably just how the recruiters want it. They would love to answer questions personally - after they get your contact info, of course.

I hope that means they have stopped recruiting gangbangers now that they are getting all that quality.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:24 AM

12. They upped the requirements drastically a couple of years ago

once it was clear the wars were winding down and the military is getting much smaller.

The bigger issue regarding the draft is now that the military is so small (relative to Vietnam era up to the early 1990's) and that there is a large number of people volunteering to serve, there are not enough military billets to make a draft fair. Such a small number of draft eligible men and women would actually serve - there is no way to make it fair without making the military substantially larger. Which is not what we want to do.

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Response to unhappycamper (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:59 AM

13. There is no way to make a draft fair

considering how much smaller the military is since the last time we had a draft (Vietnam) and also considering how much bigger the manpower pool becomes once women are added.

There will still be many people willing to serve voluntarily so when you put it all together, there are not many billets available for draftees. Only a tiny portion of potential draftees would actually serve which immediately raises fairness issues for those unlucky few, especially considering that the military could continue to meet all its man power needs through voluntary enlistments.

The only way to make it fair would be to make the military larger - which not what we want.

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Response to unhappycamper (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:42 PM

14. Two wrongs don't make a right

The draft is slavery and I hope it's never implemented no matter how anti-war anyone is.

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