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Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:40 PM

Suddenly, Lots Of Influential People Are Talking About The Trillion Dollar Coin Idea

To Save The Economy

...

An arcane idea that started on finance blogs in the summer of 2011-- that Tim Geithner should mint a trillion dollar platinum coin to avert the debt ceiling -- is now seriously taking off.

The premise of the idea is this: Although the Treasury can't just create money out of thin air to pay its bills, there is a technicality in the law that says the Treasury has special discretion to create platinum coins, and the thinking is that Tim Geithner could make the coin and walk it over to the Federal Reserve and deposit it in the Fed's account.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/suddenly-lots-of-influential-people-are-talking-about-the-trillion-dollar-coin-idea-to-save-the-economy-2013-1

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Reply Suddenly, Lots Of Influential People Are Talking About The Trillion Dollar Coin Idea (Original post)
PoliticAverse Jan 2013 OP
Agnosticsherbet Jan 2013 #1
unblock Jan 2013 #3
Agnosticsherbet Jan 2013 #5
unblock Jan 2013 #6
Agnosticsherbet Jan 2013 #21
TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #13
Bill USA Jan 2013 #19
Bill USA Jan 2013 #22
LineLineNew Reply +
struggle4progress Jan 2013 #38
mike_c Jan 2013 #2
GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #4
Joe Shlabotnik Jan 2013 #7
jberryhill Jan 2013 #8
PoliticAverse Jan 2013 #9
Redfairen Jan 2013 #10
Salviati Jan 2013 #11
PoliticAverse Jan 2013 #12
bananas Jan 2013 #24
bemildred Jan 2013 #35
bananas Jan 2013 #23
customerserviceguy Jan 2013 #29
dsc Jan 2013 #14
bananas Jan 2013 #15
jerseyjack Jan 2013 #16
bemildred Jan 2013 #17
Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #32
bemildred Jan 2013 #33
tavernier Jan 2013 #18
Macoy51 Jan 2013 #20
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #26
kelly1mm Jan 2013 #28
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #30
Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #31
kelly1mm Jan 2013 #27
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #25
Sam1 Jan 2013 #39
MFM008 Jan 2013 #34
John_UAC Jan 2013 #36
PoliticAverse Jan 2013 #37
PoliticAverse Jan 2013 #40

Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:42 PM

1. Stupid is as stupid does...

Forrest Gump

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:44 PM

3. i think it's fitting that a stupid problem (the debt limit) is solved with a stupid solution.

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Response to unblock (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:55 PM

5. The idea that the fed can not create money out of thin air, but can mint a coin and say it is worth.

a trillion dollars is stupid.

The way to handle the debt limit is to invoke the 14th amendment and get rid of the law.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:04 PM

6. not the fed, the treasury.

and the 14th amendment is of limited utility because it only relates to EXISTING debt. it doesn't grant any authority to create NEW debt, and that would be exactly what is needed.

the 14th amendment merely buys another month or so.

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Response to unblock (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:51 PM

21. The money borrowed is for programs and spending allready approved by Congress...

They can do that. It is their power. Since they have already approved that budget.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:49 PM

13. Maybe but I think it is more silly than stupid and that is because

it is a pretense that might actually fly other than the white hot anger of debt holders and the wealthy as they would feel some bite from inflation.

Quite a bit easier than the old "Fuck you, Impeach me" because the bureaucracy is still chock full of wingnuts. I think most of the money people would play along but the wingnuts would play gremlins in the works and make it tough to run an insurrection on Congress.

I guess we should just suck it and let them play out their tantrum until the "stakeholders" and the AARP crowd sets them straight but a little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by even the wisest men. I cotton to the idea of silencing their nonsense with goofy ass Reagan heads/Dubya tails jackass coins that we can all buy replicas of. It would be awesome to string it out for April Fool's.

I like not treating this shit seriously because it is bullshit. It is the kind of response that is deserved.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:11 PM

19. Amen.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:30 PM

22. I read the article and it's as "unblock" has said. the author is offering a silly tool as a way of

circumventing the idiotic requirement of raising the debt ceiling for liabilities already incurred by the Government as a result of laws passed by the Congress itself. The author is merely saying, the law is stupid so let's take a similarly idiotic idea like a trillion dollar coin to circumvent the nonsensical law.

solution (Nadler has an above-average understanding of economics in our experience).

Josh Barro at Bloomberg is now endorsing it, and that's spread a huge conversation about it among DC journalists and policy folks on twitter.

(emphasis my own)

"Barro explains why it's the perfect "solution" to the debt ceiling fiasco:

Hitting the debt ceiling isn't an option. It's no way to run the country, and Republicans know that. So, a debt-ceiling increase shouldn't count as a "concession," and it's nutty for Obama to have to give substantive policy ground to get one.

Monetizing deficits through direct presidential control of the currency, in lieu of borrowing, is also no way to run a country. It's silly, and it's perfectly legal. Agreeing not to do so is therefore the ideal "concession" for Obama to offer in return for Republicans agreeing to end the threat of a debt-default crisis.


This is basically the right way to think about it. Yes it's silly to think of funding yourself with a coin, but it's even sillier to think that defaulting might be a good idea, so you might as well do it."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/suddenly-lots-of-influential-people-are-talking-about-the-trillion-dollar-coin-idea-to-save-the-economy-2013-1#ixzz2H2nnKYwB


which earns OP a recommend from me.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:43 PM

2. I would give anything to see the disappointment...

...in Eric Cantors' eyes in the seconds before his head explodes.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:48 PM

4. Sorta demonstrates ...

How lame our monetary system really is.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:20 PM

7. Its all held together by faith

and assumptions. If a minting a trillion dollar coin could solve everything, then why even bother minting it. Just deny that the debt really exists, the same way that most affirm that the debt has value.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:25 PM

8. Think of all of the vending machines that will need to be reprogrammed

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:31 PM

9. Whose picture would you put on a trillion dollar coin ? n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:37 PM

10. Ron Paul *

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Response to Salviati (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:02 PM

12. I was thinking Reagan too... n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:28 PM

24. This is reminding me how crazy things were under Reagan/Bush. nt


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Response to Salviati (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:02 AM

35. Yep, have to be Raygun, he of the low taxes and giant deficits. Or Bush the Lesser. nt

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:20 PM

23. Byron Dale

Bo Gritz credited Byron Dale for the idea:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?people/g/gritz.bo/gritz.dat

<snip>

Well now, I started digging around in the Treasury a little
bit and it's kind of interesting. I've had a lot of help.
There's a guy named Byron Dale, he puts this out, and Byron
said, "Bo, last year we minted five hundred million dollars
in coins." Does anybody have a quarter? How much do you
think a quarter is actually worth? It costs us... (Someone
hands Bo a quarter) Thank you. Now, you'll see why you
won't get this back because it's really worthless! A
quarter costs 1.008 cents to make. So, there's no silver in
there. Is there? No. And so that quarter only costs a
cent, but when we give it to the Federal Reserve, they have
to give us credit for 25 cents. They have to give us credit
for the face value. Are you beginning to follow me here?
And so when we mint a silver dollar, it's not really silver,
but how much credit must they give the debt of the United
States? One dollar. It only costs us about 2 cents to do
that, but, it's a dollar. As a matter of fact, a Susan B.
Anthony costs a lot less than a half a dollar does because
it's smaller.

Well, if that's true... Let's make sure we've got it all
right, so there won't be any confusion here when you leave
today. You're going to know without locking Congress up at
Andrews Air Force Base exactly how to get America out of
debt if these are given to them at 2 cents because that's
all it costs to make and yet they loan them back to us at
face value and remember that now so we're four trillion
dollars in debt with these, aren't we? And, if this only
costs a cent to make, but they have to give us 25 cents
credit, what is wrong with minting a giant coin (Bo holds up
a 5" diameter, giant coin) that says "Four Trillion
Dollars Debt of the United States Paid in Full In God We
Trust." (Huge round of applause.) Now, I ask you, let's be
very clear about it: is that legal? I'd be very
enthusiastic if I thought I could get my great grandkids, my
grandchild who's thirteen now and my three mules and a
daughter, if I could get them out of debt because they all
owe $42,000. That's what every one of you owe and that's
what your kids owe and if you're born today, that's the
price of being an American. I'd be excited about thinking
on this because is this coin going to be made out of gold?
Is it going to be made out of silver? No, it has to be made
out of pot metal because it has to be worthless! It has to
equal what it is that they have been giving us all this
time!

BUSH'S TRUE ALLEGIANCE

Now, you may say, I'll bet you, if you're from the media
because I've tested the media with this and they say, "Huh?
Uh. Um. Uh, I don't think you can do that, Bo. Well,
Department of the Treasury, QUOTE: "The former Chairman of
the House Coinage Subcommittee correctly points out that we
could pay off the National debt with a single four trillion
dollar coin." Now, tell me that I cannot do it. And so,
will we do it? Yes! Will George Bush do it? No!. Will
Bill Clinton do it? No! Because, you see, they have a
different master. On C-SPAN, George Bush is recorded as
having said, "Whatever I am, whatever I become, I owe to
David Rockefeller." Well, the President of the United
States ought to be serving a different master. And, matter
of fact, before the United Nations this year, George Bush
made this statement, he said, "It is to the sacred U.N.
Charter that we and all people will now and forever pledge
our allegiance."

<snip>

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:41 PM

29. Donald Trump.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 12:55 AM

14. I actually liked Josh Barrow's idea

Obama gives the concession of not minting a trillion dollar coin in return for Congress raising the debt ceiling.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 08:04 AM

15. It was proposed in 1992 by presidential candidate James Bo Gritz

If I recall, it became part of his official campaign platform.
He verified with the treasury, the mint, etc that it was legal and something the president could order,
so he promised it would be one of his first actions as president (if I recall correctly, it was a long time ago).

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 08:16 AM

16. Variation .... Issue a bunch of platinum coins in multiple demoninations.

 

Minimum, $500k value.

Issue only a few of each and auction them off.

Income to the treasury would increase substantially.

How many wakos in the world would pay to own 1 of ten $5m. coins?

Look at the value of the gold coins that were stolen from the treasury.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:11 AM

17. When everybody is trying to game the system, you no longer really have a system.

Just an observation.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:05 PM

32. How is a 1T credit to our account at the fed, in the form of a coin,

Any different than a piece of paper from congress authorizing another 1T of debt?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #32)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:20 PM

33. It isn't, that's my point.

The Republicans are gaming the system (vote rigging, gerrymandering, Citizens United, etc.) because they would lose in an honest vote. That being so, there is no reason for anybody else to be scrupulous about anything that is legal.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:40 PM

18. That and seven dollars

will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

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Response to tavernier (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:30 PM

20. Make 17 Coins

 

Take it one step farther...make 17 coins, each worth a trillion dollars. Bam, no more debt, and we even have a small surplus. Of course inflation will be a bear, but it does solve the debt issue.


Macoy

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Response to Macoy51 (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:35 PM

26. It's won't cause inflation because it will never make it into the real economy.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #26)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:39 PM

28. If so, why don't we just end all taxation and mint 2-3 coins a year? That makes everyone

happy and there is no debt anymore! Right .......????????

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:48 PM

30. Because this is about paying interest on the debts we already have.

Read up on Modern Monetary Theory.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #30)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:03 PM

31. Actually it isn't even that, it is a marker that would add a credit to our fed account.

The government would continue to pay its existing debt obligations, and, now that the fed account is +1T, be able to borrow more to meet current expenses. It is no different at all from congress raising the debt ceiling by 1T, other than the disk of platinum sitting in the Fed's vault, instead of a piece of paper saying "ok to borrow another T."

If congress balks at raising the ceiling the administration is required to do something to meet all debt obligations of the government.

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Response to Macoy51 (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:37 PM

27. I like that idea! After the 17 coins, lets just mint 2 more per year and end all taxes as well!

America! What a country!

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:33 PM

25. I think Modern Monetary Theory has finally hit the big time!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:26 AM

39. It is getting there.

It will finally hit the big time when people begin to understand that money is created out of thin air and that banks are creating and destroying money all of the time. Then we might be able to have a a good discussion about guaranteed employment.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:00 AM

36. Spam deleted by NRaleighLiberal (MIR Team)

 

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Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:47 AM

37. PAUL KRUGMAN: Obama Must Be Ready To Mint The Trillion Dollar Platinum Coin

The movement to mint a trillion dollar platinum coin gets its biggest backer yet: Paul Krugman.

To back up for a moment, in case you're not familiar with the #MintTheCoin movement, the idea is that by using a technical loophole in the law, the Treasury could create a coin worth $1 trillion and deposit it in its bank account.

In a new post up titled Be Ready To Mint The Coin he writes:

It’s easy to make sententious remarks to the effect that we shouldn’t look for gimmicks, we should sit down like serious people and deal with our problems realistically. That may sound reasonable — if you’ve been living in a cave for the past four years.Given the realities of our political situation, and in particular the mixture of ruthlessness and craziness that now characterizes House Republicans, it’s just ridiculous — far more ridiculous than the notion of the coin.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nobel-prize-winner-paul-krugman-obama-must-get-ready-to-mint-the-trillion-dollar-coin-2013-1

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