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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:07 AM

Hungary's Jews face down new anti-Semitism, embrace heritage

Jewish community determined not to allow a political climate in which they have to defend that identity or even suppress it.

A week after a leader of Hungary's far-right Jobbik party called for lists of prominent Jews to be drawn up to protect national security, Janos Fonagy stepped forward.

"My mother and father were Jewish, and so am I, whether you like it or not," the state secretary of the Development Ministry told parliament, explaining he did not have dual citizenship with Israel and was not religious.

"I cannot choose, I was born into this. But you can choose, and you have chosen this path," he said, addressing Jobbik's deputies. "Bear history's judgment."

It is only relatively recently that Hungary's Jews have celebrated their identity as openly as they did when Europe's largest synagogue was built in Budapest in the 1850s.

More: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/hungary-s-jews-face-down-new-anti-semitism-embrace-heritage-1.485139

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Reply Hungary's Jews face down new anti-Semitism, embrace heritage (Original post)
Behind the Aegis Dec 2012 OP
Bohunk68 Dec 2012 #1
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #2
Diclotican Dec 2012 #3
Ash_F Dec 2012 #4

Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:35 AM

1. I'm on an email list

of descendants of Hungarians. There has been quite a bit of information coming out of Hungary about Jobbik and the strident anti-semitism of the group. The list is maintained by a woman who is of Jewish heritage. I have a Jewish great grandfather (on my father's side) who had married in the US a Hungarian woman who was Hungarian Reformed church. Therefore, her children were all raised as Xtians. When I started doing my genealogical research, I had suspected that GGF was Jewish because of our last name, Tobias. When I could find no Tobiases in baptismal records, I thought this more strongly. When I checked the 1848 census which was taken after the 1848 Revolution and was of Jews only, I found tons of Tobiases. When I shared this information with my Hungarian descended relatives, Oh my! The shrieks that went off all around me saying I was full of shit!!!. The anti-semitism could be cut with a butter knife. I am now, of course, persona non grata at those family gatherings. Plus the fact that I'm GLBT doesn't help any. In any event, fuck 'em, they were never a part of my life anyway since I was raised by my mother's family after the divorce. Part of the reason for the divorce was that mom was not Hungarian, but old-line CT Yankee. So, the anti-semitism amongst Hungarians doesn't surprise me in the least.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:37 AM

2. No surprise. Ever heard of the Arrow Cross?

Hungarian version of the SS. Yes, they WERE allies of Nazi Germany. And yes, they deported 99% of their Jews to be killed at Auschwitz. And no, they were NOT forced to do so, much as they'd like the rest of the world to think.

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Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 11:08 PM

3. BigDemVoter

BigDemVoter

The Arrow Cross, was maybe even worse than the SS, as it totally lacked the "discipline" the germans had in their quest to murder so many jews as posible... Hungary had been "friend" and before WW2 part of the alliance between Germany, italy and imperial Japan.. And it was also sending many hungarians to the eastern front, where so many of them died, in the cold winter of 1942-43 around Stalingrad.. They who doesn't die then - often found them self in the Gulag camps for decades there after...

And Hungary never did any soul-searching after the war. As many eastern european nations, they deiced the past was the past, regardless how horrible the actions had been - and as so many of hungarians have had part of the horrible actions who happened when war was there it was far more easy to claim that they was innocent - and had not taken part of the horrible acts who did happened.. Than to take responsibility - and punish the ones who do had their share of blood on their hand.. And it was never easy to arrest many of the worst criminals from that period either - as most of their victims was spread over the whole world - or killed off in Auschwitz and the other death camps in the eastern part of Poland so many criminals just slipped true the radar - and many was discovered many years after the facts - some even lived in Western Europe - who they never told about what they had been doing under world war two of course.. Some was indeed discovered - and after a long while the victims could be given some Justice - but many who managed to stay under the radar - and become important members of their local community - specially in Hungary was never punished for their crimes - and could die in their beds - with their family and loved ones around them... Never punished for what they did..

And for some years now, historians have tried to put together a more complete picture of the war - and interjuved some of them, who was putting jews and other on the trains to the death camps - and when asked about why they was doing it - many answered with I just did my duty to the fatherland. The Jews was our enemy - we had to get rid of them. And the germans was given us the ability to get rid of them... When asked, if a similar situation arise - and they had to do the same job again, was they willing to do it again - most of them said - Yes - I would do as it is part of my duty to the fatherland...

And this comes from people, who other vice is respected, and decent - many with great educations, and a spotless past.. But when it come to this - most of them claimed they would do it over again..

So, yes, it is absolutely a time to be of worry, if you happened to live in Hungary - and be of jewish decent.. It have happened before - it could happened again, if not at the same scale - it could end up rather unpleasant for many - Regardless of the Hungarian membership of EU or NATO.... I for one would not have given any of the former eastern block membership in either EU or NATO.. Maybe a close friendship/trading with them - but before they could solve out this underlying issues with the minorities, I believe it to be the best to not make them full members of either two organizations at all... But Hungary is now member of both EU and NATO.. And i just hope our current politicians is better prepared to stop Jobbnick and other like them - to do horrible crimes against humanity..

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 02:50 AM

4. The Jobbik party has somehow become popular among younger Hungarians

"So far, polls suggest Jobbik has retained its voter base. Among young voters its support is nearly 20 percent, making it the strongest party in the age group below 30, according to a Republikon Institute poll earlier this year."

I wonder if the situation has any relation to the rise of Neo-Nazism among youth in Russia.

"But unlike its hugely successful anti-Roma rhetoric, anti-Semitism may end up working against Jobbik in the long run, Republikon Institute Director Csaba Toth told Reuters, because it will put off potential coalition partners."

How is bigotry against Romani people somehow more acceptable over there?

It's only 20%, but that's not nothing. It would be troubling if it's growing.

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