HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Good Reads (Forum) » Even More Bad News for th...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:56 AM

Even More Bad News for the GOP "US evangelicals question Republican ties" (BBC)

Sorta hoped/suspected that something like this was coming. It appears that after the defeat of the Republican party (particularly the defeat of the Republican Party on socially conservative issues), Evangelical leaders are questioning

1) Their ties to the Republican Party
2) Whether they should be in politics at all

and

3) Whether they should focus more on other "Christian" issues such as social justice:

From the BBC:

After an election where conservative social causes failed to convince voters, evangelical Christians are pondering their relationship with the Republican party...

"In the 2000 decade, the term "evangelical Christian" in America became associated with a political position rather than a theological position," says Pastor Rick Warren, founder of the Saddleback megachurch, in an interview with BBC World Service's World Update programme.

"At that time, George Bush was president, he was a well-known evangelical. People assumed if you're an evangelical, then you support everything that George Bush supports whether it's war in Iraq, or anything else. That's nonsense."

To Warren, associating with politics risks alienating potential members of the church.

31 replies, 3701 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Even More Bad News for the GOP "US evangelicals question Republican ties" (BBC) (Original post)
Justin_Beach Dec 2012 OP
ToxMarz Dec 2012 #1
ReRe Dec 2012 #11
SharonAnn Dec 2012 #18
think Dec 2012 #2
JHB Dec 2012 #22
dkf Dec 2012 #3
Justin_Beach Dec 2012 #4
yurbud Dec 2012 #20
Justin_Beach Dec 2012 #21
yurbud Dec 2012 #23
okaawhatever Dec 2012 #5
ReRe Dec 2012 #12
yurbud Dec 2012 #24
Ford_Prefect Dec 2012 #6
Chemisse Dec 2012 #7
yurbud Dec 2012 #25
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #8
Justin_Beach Dec 2012 #14
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #17
EileenFB Dec 2012 #9
Uben Dec 2012 #10
Pakid Dec 2012 #13
Adsos Letter Dec 2012 #15
Justin_Beach Dec 2012 #16
Dawson Leery Dec 2012 #19
DJ13 Dec 2012 #26
Justin_Beach Dec 2012 #28
DJ13 Dec 2012 #30
Justin_Beach Dec 2012 #31
get the red out Dec 2012 #27
Justin_Beach Dec 2012 #29

Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:22 AM

1. To Warren, associating with politics risks alienating potential members of the church.

Gee, do you think.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ToxMarz (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 07:44 AM

11. Risks money not going...

...to his bank account. Tain't it something that all these wingers & CEOs are bailing out.

I DON'T BUY IT.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ToxMarz (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:28 PM

18. Combining Religion and Politics results in POLITICS! Religion actually gets lost.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:30 AM

2. I can't believe they're leaving. I hear the koolaid is delicious!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:11 AM

22. They're not out the door yet...

...just glancing at their watch and starting to get fidgety.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:34 AM

3. Well they did nominate a Mormon.

 

I don't know why anyone expected that would excite the evangelicals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:46 AM

4. Imagining the GOP without Evangelicals ...

Is kindof amazing .. what and who does that leave them?

On issues they are - pro-military and pro-rich people and corporations, the rest of their "platform" is kinda blank

In terms of Candidates ... virtually every prominent Republican elected since 1980 has made their name as a social conservative, not to mention their pundits (Beck, Limbaugh, O'Reilly)

Without the Evangelicals they would be a party in search of a platform and some members, they'd either have to drift left and try to pick up Dem moderates or they'd have to follow Ron Paul off a fiscal cliff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:53 PM

20. they would still have the racists and xenophobes to carry the water of the wealthy

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yurbud (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:06 AM

21. True but ...

As the last election showed, the xenophobes and racists can't carry an election anymore (no matter how motivated they are). If they can't count on the evangelicals, they're in real (long term) trouble.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:02 PM

23. I agree--now we have to convince Dems in Congress to stop playing WEEKEND AT BERNIE'S with them

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:38 AM

5. Or, the evangelical Christians just realized what Mormon doctrine really says and

they were all like......hey, wait a minute. No we do not believe in the same God.

I also believe there were 2 other factors:
1. They GOP realized that with the economy in shambles, this election was not going to be about moral issues.
2. With unlimited campaign spending, whoring themselves out to the highest bidder, meant following the evangelical corporations.

Or, if you're a glass half full kinda person, maybe you believe they came to their senses and realized that the death penalty, war, depriving others of fundamental human rights is NOT what the Bible says a good christian does. Just sayin'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to okaawhatever (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 07:51 AM

12. Yeah....

NOW they are getting what religion is all about. God may forgive them of all their sins,
but I don't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to okaawhatever (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:04 PM

24. or like the rest of us, it's a generational divide among evangelicals

the younger ones are more interested in social justice than the moral scolding of the previous generation, and even if they theologically disapprove of homosexuality, they likely don't have the visceral fear previous generations did since they probably grew up with at least a few openly gay kids.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:15 AM

6. You don't really mean "they" were only in it for the money?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:16 AM

7. If they decide to go with social justice,

they'll have to do a complete overhaul of their beliefs. They may actually have to dust off the bible and read again what Jesus would do. And it won't be give to the rich and take from the poor, or persecute gays and demean women, or bomb Middle Eastern countries.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chemisse (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:15 PM

25. for evangelicals in their 40s or older, they would say help the poor through charity and your church

NOT the government.

I had an odd conversation with a friend about that once: at what level does a combined effort to help the poor cross from good to evil?

When it's not through the church?

When it's paid for by taxes?

For some reason, she saw taxes as a form of forced charity, but any group you join and give money to is going to use some part of that money in ways you don't approve of.

And why would the people being helped be harmed if it came from the state instead of a church? Because they didn't have to beg and weren't properly humiliated by their need?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:28 AM

8. There is no one voice that speaks for them, which is why they have so many influence peddlers

So they can opine about getting out of the political business all they want. It ain't gonna happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:33 AM

14. They do have a ton of "representatives" but ...

If only some of them pull out of the politics game or they generally become a little less enthusiastic ... if, for example, it leads to a 1% drop in GOP vote totals, it's still incredibly bad news for that party.

Of course the Republicans could try to limit the damage by running a field of truly hard right social conservatives, but overall that would be much worse for them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:21 PM

17. I think ultimately those associations are going to cost them at the polls and already do

The current trend is the US is becoming far less enthusiastic about the anti-gay bigoted agenda. So I think those associations are going to hurt the GOP regardless of whether evangelicals start to become disillusioned with them or not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:25 AM

9. I believe one of the main reasons Evangelical preachers steered clear

of this election was due to the fact that Romney was a Mormon and some of them in the past had condemned Mormonism. Thanks to Social media they cannot erase those statements/sermons completely.

The night before the election a friend and I were checking out FB posts and Twitter updates from well known pastors just to see what they were saying about the election or, if they were encouraging their followers to vote at all. On Rod Parsley's FB page he wrote "It's Election Day in the United States. I hope you're registered to vote and if so, that you vote your values today!" Someone responded with a YouTube link to a 2009 sermon Rod gave condemning Mormonism. Just checked, that video is now gone from YouTube but here is part of that sermon.



Same happened with Billy Graham, although I do not believe he had any part in it because of his health as it was more likely his son Franklin. They removed from his official site where he calls Mormonism a cult but thanks to WayBack Machine that page can be viewed.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 07:26 AM

10. Evangelicals lie just like republlicans.....

..they play the same game...tell people a lie...repeatedly, and they will believe. They are gullible, just like the republican sheeple.
Evangelicals are snake oil salesmen. They sell the idea there is some kind of omnipotent all-knowing being in the sky that rules all. Which anyone with half a brain knows isn't true, but it rewards the preachers monetarily, so they continue the sell because it works.
Even though the republicans use them, bad-mouth them, and lie to them, they are both selling lies to the same group of gullible people. So, they close their eyes and do what they're told.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:08 AM

13. Wow Did Evangelicals finally learn how to read

Since the bible that they claim to love so much (The new Testament) is mostly about social justice they just now figured that out! Amazing !

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:14 PM

15. I'll take #2 for $500, Alex...

Get thee out of politics entirely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:16 PM

16. Of course there are others ..

who are trying to drag the GOP even farther right on social issues

http://www.christianpost.com/news/evangelicals-to-country-club-gopers-social-issues-arent-problem-you-are-85361/

It seems, at a glance anyway, that no matter which way the GOP moves - they are screwed. If they drift farther right, they will lose moderates (including moderate Republicans) completely, if they drift left they lose the far right and (quite likely) and have to count on having a stronger candidate and picking up enough independents to make up for the Teabaggers they lose.

(and their chances of having a stronger Candidate - when the dems have Clinton and Obama + the candidate on the campaign trail, are slim.)

Still, it will be fun to watch them thrash around.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:41 PM

19. Evangelicals (Calvinism) working in tandem with big corporations have

ruined this country.

Evangelicals have earned their reputation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:18 PM

26. Thats not bad news for the GOP

Thats bad news for our party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DJ13 (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:20 PM

28. In what way?

If the Evangelicals got out of politics altogether or took more of an interest in human rights and social justice - how would that be bad for the dems?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:22 PM

30. You really think they'll get out of politics after 30+ years of controlling the GOP?

I think its more likely they are just switching to the party with the best chance of winning for the foreseeable future, hoping to gradually seize more control to further their agenda.

Giving up is not in their nature,

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DJ13 (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:24 PM

31. That is what the article was about ...

There was no mention, none at all, of joining the Democrats. If they decided to vote D they would be a small voice inside a big tent, they wouldn't enjoy nearly the level of control that they do with the Republicans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Justin_Beach (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:18 PM

27. But have they gone too far?

Evangelicals have been with the Republicans for so long I wonder if they even know what "social issues" are? It would entail helping people they have been cleverly taught to hate, like the poor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to get the red out (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:22 PM

29. If you read the whole thing ...

Part of the issue is that younger evangelicals (under 30) are pro-gay rights and pro-social justice. There were young evangelicals at Occupy Wall Street. The older bible thumpers are having a hard time convincing those people to vote Republican.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread