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Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:18 AM

Why is Texas always a mere Fort Sumter away from seceding?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/1124/Why-is-Texas-always-a-mere-Fort-Sumter-away-from-seceding

Why is Texas always a mere Fort Sumter away from seceding?
Secession talk has always been Texas-sized in Texas. But if nothing else, the latest online request to the White House for independence really means: Get ready for four more years of acrimony between Austin and Washington.
By Patrik Jonsson, Staff Writer / November 24, 2012

...Having once been a nation, Texas could conceivably go at it again. Successful secession would mean Texas would instantly become the 40th largest country on the globe, with a wealth of oil and other natural resources. No longer would Austin have to bow by executive orders and bureaucratic fiats from Washington. According to this vision, lovers of individual freedom and enterprise would flock to Texas, bolstering a wave of migration and investment that has allowed the state to weather the nation’s economic storm better than most...

To be sure, there are big problems to contend with. Yes, Texas taxpayers send $198 billion in income tax to Washington while the state receives only $33 billion in payments from Washington. But imagine the real consequences of an independent Texas: 15 major Army bases, including Fort Hood, gone. As part of a deal, won’t Washington want to be repaid for its massive infrastructure investments in Texas, such as the $250 million a year that Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport receives. The end of federal research dollars would shrink the Lone Star Republic’s edifices of higher education to a fraction of their current size and capability. And Texas could probably kiss goodbye any chance to land NASA's next major rocket launch pad – not to mention the $3 billion that NASA invests in Texas annually...

For now, Texas’ real goal isn’t secession. It’s a chance for the state’s conservatives to show the American people how wrong they were on Election Day. “Texas Republicans are upbeat and almost giddy about being the leaders of the resistance to Barack Obama’s second-term agenda,” writes Richard Dunham in the Houston Chronicle.

Of course, that may mean less real clout in Washington. And come as early as 2020, some political scientists predict a demographic “time bomb” will go off in Texas, where its burgeoning Hispanic population could turn the Lone Star Republic into a blue state...

39 replies, 5679 views

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Reply Why is Texas always a mere Fort Sumter away from seceding? (Original post)
jsr Nov 2012 OP
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #1
cloudbase Nov 2012 #15
think Nov 2012 #2
caveat_imperator Nov 2012 #9
Dustlawyer Dec 2012 #33
oldbanjo Nov 2012 #3
ReasonsVoice Dec 2012 #36
firenewt Nov 2012 #4
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #5
The Wizard Nov 2012 #11
n2doc Nov 2012 #6
Dustlawyer Nov 2012 #8
Rozlee Nov 2012 #17
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #38
aletier_v Nov 2012 #14
notgoinback Nov 2012 #29
Dustlawyer Nov 2012 #7
starroute Nov 2012 #10
jeff47 Nov 2012 #23
sulphurdunn Nov 2012 #12
tomp Nov 2012 #13
Kber Nov 2012 #19
notgoinback Nov 2012 #16
Paladin Dec 2012 #35
Coyotl Nov 2012 #18
RC Nov 2012 #20
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #24
Jim Lane Nov 2012 #27
RC Nov 2012 #30
SDjack Nov 2012 #21
aletier_v Nov 2012 #22
Flying Squirrel Nov 2012 #25
Zorro Nov 2012 #26
Mona Nov 2012 #28
No Vested Interest Nov 2012 #31
Stevepol Nov 2012 #32
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #34
ReasonsVoice Dec 2012 #37
yurbud Dec 2012 #39

Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:39 AM

1. "Almost giddy."?

Head trauma brain damage is closer to it.

Texas doesn't have the slightest intention of becoming fortieth of anything at all.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:10 AM

15. We're too busy

fighting it out with Alabama and Mississippi for 50th place in all the stuff that matters. Fortieth? Pffft!

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:40 AM

2. Austin will secede from Texas before Texas secedes from the US /nt

Last edited Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:16 PM - Edit history (2)

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Response to think (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:37 AM

9. South Texas would probably split off as well.

Maybe El Paso and Houston too.

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Response to think (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:09 PM

33. True dat!

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:38 AM

3. The rich in Texas would get richer

and the poor would die from pollution with no EPA rules, the USA would have major problems with the air that we breath.

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Response to oldbanjo (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:12 PM

36. Not true at all

 

There are dozens of psychological studies that all confirm that the people benefiting from more power, cars, etc are happier than those without and the fact that hey aren't depressed outweigh ANY possible health problems from pollution. There were minor members of the EPA that agreed before the higher ups stomped them out.

Simply said, that higher energy consuming countries have less depressed people. And depressions is FAR more harmful than pollution of a major city.

Hate to say it, but you're wrong there.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:54 AM

4. Well at least Texas would get the border fence they always wanted.................

 

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Response to firenewt (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:14 AM

5. Texas hasn't been all that big on border fences

Even Gov. Goodhair said the idea was stupid.

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Response to firenewt (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:47 AM

11. A much longer fence(NT)

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:15 AM

6. I always find it amusing that 10's of thousands are assumed to speak for 10's of millions

The overwhelming majority of Texans do not wish to secede. It is a meme brought on by outsiders and a few prominent t-bagger nuts (I'm looking at you, Rick Perry) who think it makes for a 'fun' story. Even Perry has backed off of the talk, once it became clear how inflamed his far right supporters have gotten.

What they really want is to have their cake (fed dollars) and to eat it too (follow only those Fed laws they agree with). One could say this about repubs in most states.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:27 AM

8. This is too true. If you are fed up with brash, tough talking Texas Republicans, imagine

how we feel! I have to live around these wing nuts! There many more of us that feel differently, we just need help to get them all registered and to the polls. I am ready to shove Democratic votes up their ignorant, Tea Party asses! I cannot wait!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:20 AM

17. I live in Texas too.

Just 30 miles north of San Antonio, which is government Sugar Daddy Central. They have Randolph Air Force Base, Lackland Air Force Base, Ft. Sam Houston, Brooke Army Medical Center--which is getting a 50 million dollar upgrade--defense contractors at Brooks City-Base and Kelly Field and the VA Hospital. Not to mention that the River Walk downtown, which brings in hundreds of millions of dollars in tourist money, is a New Deal project whose upkeep is matched with federal funds, AND all those memorials downtown like the Alamo that also get funding from the Parks and Recreation Dept. Then, they have UTSA and several community colleges that also receive government grants. San Antone would be Edinburg if it wasn't for the government.

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:59 AM

38. I think these petitions are easy to start...

...you could start one that reaffirms TX as a state and sets up a competition to see which side has more real support. Of course wing nuts are more likely to sign a petition than are normal, reasonable folks just trying to live their lives, but it wouldn't take to large a percentage of normal folks to swamp the wing nuts.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:05 AM

14. It's lucky that non-Texans have no say in it

Because it would have happened already.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:41 PM

29. Sorry...

GOP presidential candidates do desperately need the Lone Star State's electoral votes to negate New York's
solidly "blue" ones. My snarky, "I.Q." comment however, was not fair to Jim Hightower or another Texan I loved
and lost - Molly Ivins, R.I.P.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:19 AM

7. They are a lot of things, but giddy isn't one of them! With some help from the DNC we could flip

in 2016! Re-Districting by Tom Delay set things back awhile, but we made great progress this election. We need your help to kick these Morans out!

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:45 AM

10. Where does that loopy $33 billion figure for federal payments come from?

Last edited Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:00 PM - Edit history (1)

That was so weird that I checked online -- and the true figure is that Texas gets back 94 cents on every dollar in federal taxes paid. (See, for example, http://stonesoup.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/federal-funding-received-by-state-per-dollar-sent/)

In absolute terms, this means that Texas is the second-highest recipient of federal spending -- though it's only ninth highest on a per capita basis. (http://www.cnbc.com/id/49200137/States_With_the_Most_Federal_Funding?slide=3) It's particularly dependent on federal disaster relief because of its susceptibility to hurricanes and wildfires.

I suspect there's a lot of fudging going into those figures in the article -- maybe by referring only to "income tax" and ignoring Social Security and Medicare. Maybe by counting only money given directly to the state in the form of block grants to get to that $33 billion. But something is definitely screwy.

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Response to starroute (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:55 PM

23. Most stats also don't include federal paychecks

All those soldiers and airmen stationed in TX bring in a lot of money from the feds.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:56 AM

12. The oil they drill and refine

is helping turn the earth into a milder Venus and these morans are talking about secession. There is no cure for that kind of stupid.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:02 AM

13. it'd be easier to elect a democratic president without texas...i think. nt

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Response to tomp (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:30 AM

19. For now, anyway.

If the Democrats continue to build (rather than take advantage of) the Latino vote, and the Republicans continue on their nativist (or outright racist) path, demographics are going to eventually turn Texas blue.

At which time the Republicans will have a choice between a serious rewrite of their platform and views or they can give up all hope of winning a national election ever again.

Personally, I hope they go for door #1 - better for the country as a whole, imo.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:20 AM

16. Yippee Ky Yy Ay...go away you Texies!

If Texas, ( 38 electoral votes ) secedes from the U.S.A., a Republican will never live in the White House Again!
And, the average I.Q. of America's population will go up 38 points!

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Response to notgoinback (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:56 PM

35. Sounds Like You Need Such An I.Q. Boost. Badly. (nt)

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:22 AM

18. What a crock. ROFLMAO

"a mere Fort Sumter away from seceding"

Given the ridiculous hypothetical for humor's sake, wouldn't half the population flee, leaving those who don't know how to run a state home alone?

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:30 AM

20. Doesn't Texas have in their Constitution the option of seceding?

 

Just pass a Bill with a simple majority, or some such?

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Response to RC (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 03:00 PM

24. Perhaps in some fantasy TX constitution that lives forever in the fevered imaginations

of a handful of uneducated Johnny-Reb-wannabees, as they drunkenly loll on their couches, stuffing their cheese-doodle orange-tanned faces whilst fingering their boobie-tube remotes

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Response to RC (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:00 PM

27. No, the option Texas has is to split into five states.

That was part of the agreement by which Texas became part of the United States (though whether it's still valid isn't certain). The suggestion that Texas retained a different right, the right to secede, was a bit of history a la Rick Perry, who was, to put it charitably, confused.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #27)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:53 PM

30. Thank you.

 

Sounds familiar. I believe you are probably correct.
I must have read some Republican bullshit somewhere along the line.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:43 AM

21. "Why is Texas always ..." Whoa! Stop! That is BS.

I remember vividly the 1960s in Texas. If the secessionists had the votes, they would have forced a referendum then. They have less support now. BS artists are reacting to BSer secessionists, whose only plan left is to get others to demand that Texas be released from the Union because everyone is tired of their BS. Texas is proud to be in the USA.

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Response to SDjack (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:47 AM

22. We've pinpointed the secessionist headquarters

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 03:29 PM

25. And Republicans would be fine with losing all those Electoral Votes?

I think not

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 03:35 PM

26. "There's a petition for Texas to secede...

It has 25,000 signatures. The signatures are from every state but Texas."
---Conan O'Brien

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:13 PM

28. OMG, had one of these on my FB page....

A classic Texas wingnut...warning me about the civil war that was going to erupt if Obama wa reelected. Kept trying to tell me how I didn't undertand, and I would see.

She was also the one posting all the "obama is hitler" crap, as well as the usual birther stuff, etc. It was unreal. I almost unfriended her, but it was so unreal, it was like a train wreck, I had to keep watching.

She got mad one day and unfriended me before the election, my darn liberal friends kept correcting her. Would love to see how she is doing now...

I feel for all those in TX (and elsewhere) surrounded by that!

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 05:13 PM

31. Yes, the Latino population is growing in Texas

But - correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I not a Texan-
They got 5 new Congressional seats in reapportionment, but the seats were all drawn to be Republican districts.
I. e. - The growing Latino/Dem. population is not reflected in their representation.

Of course, they got Ted Cruz as a "Hispanic" Senator, but he's of Cuban heritage, which is most unlike the rest of US/Latino population, and is a Princeton graduate, also not reflective of Latinos.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 05:38 PM

32. To answer your question, let me offer my two cents.

number one: gerrymandered districts
number two: electronic voting machines counting the votes

IMHO, as soon as there's a fair vote count in TX, you won't have so many wingnuts elected. Demographics already favor the Dems in the most populous regions.

I don't know that for a fact because we don't have a transparent voting system, that is, a system using paper ballots hand-counted or requiring an audit to make sure the machines are counting correctly. Actually, this is more or less true across the country, so it's impossible to know for sure what the result of any election is, but especially in certain states like MS, GA, AL, and TX.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:11 PM

34. It's the usual "Here: hold my beer, and watch this!" gang

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:15 PM

37. Born in and love Texas but...

 

YOU IDIOTS JUST HANDED A PAPER WITH HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF NAMES TO THE FBI!

Now the President has a paper on hand with the names of every person he has to have the FBI investigate for treason!
Now I am a conservatively leaning independent, but ...come on guys...that was just sad.

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Response to jsr (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:59 AM

39. because the rest of us don't beg them to stay and hope they WILL go?

then they realize seceding sounds less like a threat to the rest of us than a gift.

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