Turkey Moved the Border!

[newthinking]

Turkey Moved the Border!

by Joyce Nelson

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/26/turkey-moved-the-border/



In the midst of claims and counter-claims over Turkey’s shooting of a Russian jet fighter on Nov. 24, Global Research.ca editor Michel Chossudovsky has reposted an Oct. 6 news item from Syrian Free Press (SFP) that reported Turkey had “unilaterally ‘moved’ the Turkish-Syrian border five miles south”.

SFP’s Oct. 6 report was originally published following an earlier dispute when Turkey claimed a Russian warplane had violated its airspace. Chossudovsky calls the SFP Oct. article “of utmost relevance in understanding the action taken by Turkey to down a Russian jet fighter over Syrian airspace” a few days ago. [1]

According to Syrian Free Press: “… the Russians fly very near to the border and bomb [the] position of some anti-Syrian fighters Turkey supports. They have good reasons to do so: The town, in a mountainous region of northern Latakla province, has been a prime route for smuggling people and goods between Turkey and Syria and reportedly has functioned as a key entry for weapons shipped to Syrian rebels by the U.S.-led Friends of Syria group of Western and Middle Eastern countries.

The Oct. 6 report continues: “One Russian plane may even indeed have slightly crossed the border while manoeuvring [in early October]. But the real reason [for claims of airspace violation] is because Turkey unilaterally ‘moved’ the Turkish-Syrian border five miles south. Turkey has maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria since June 2012, when a Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish fighter plane that had strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules of engagement put in effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any target coming within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy and act accordingly.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/26/turkey-moved-the-border/

[Electric Monk]

1. Whookaaay, then that explains that, don't it?

[Chan790]

2. So, what you're saying is...

the shoot-down itself was justified as Russia breached a known and internationally-established no-fly buffer 5mi. wide along the border after having been repeatedly warned what would happen if they continued to breach it and as well as commit incursions into Turkey. That settles it. Russia committed an act of war against a NATO state and was shocked that they got shot at for it.

That leaves the problem of rebels on the ground committing war crimes...but really, don't rebels frequently commit war-crimes and isn't it problematic to blame a remotely-involved state-actor for the actions of rebels not under their control?

[leveymg]

3. Which acknowledges that Turkey unilaterally created a no-fly zone that

Rebel groups have been using the border the last few years as a safe area to stage attacks inside Syria. Who recognizes this state of affairs as legitimate?

[Chan790]

4. I'm pretty sure NATO, Turkey and the US all do...

being that the rebels in question are the ones that we're giving guns to via Turkey to shoot at Assad loyalists. Russian incursions into that NFZ is an act of war against a NATO state, one that the Russians were previously warned about.

What did they expect, to be welcomed with a cup of Türk kahvesi and some Walker Shortbreads?

[arendt]

5. By what international law are we entitled to support...

fundamentalist Islamic rebels against a legitimate secular government?

By what right does NATO decide whose government is legitimate and whose government they have no qualms about using Islamic fundamentalists to overthrow?

Just asking.

[flamingdem]

6. Don't you know about the Oil Law

.. yeah, that one.

[Chan790]

7. I think it's a bit late to ask those questions when we've been doing such things since the 1960s...

and two major US political figures to put their imprimatur on it and say "This is legal. We can do this." are the brothers of the guy in your profile pic.

The US has been acting to depose the hostile leadership of foreign governments deeming them illegitimate for longer than either of us has probably been alive. Probably a bit late to try to put that bull back in the barn.

[leveymg]

8. If Turkey and NATO have one set of borders and Syria and Russia have another

Then further shoot downs and increasiing escalation leading to World War is inevitable. Proof that mutual recognition of shared risk of unilaterally change of rules is a sure prescription for uncontrolled conflict has broken down.

This is very fucked up and can only get worse.

[newthinking]

11. The rebels are not only fighting Assad themselves but are smuggling arms to ISIS

Turkey has been subtly supporting ISIS which complicates things significantly.

[newthinking]

10. Not saying that at all. These issues are complicated and turned into "Narratives"

I primarily post information that does not get in the mainstream media that adds more background to events.

I agree that essentially there is no real way to have a war without atrocities.

This event may have halted what could have evolved into a joint effort which is really what is needed if we are going to tamper down the middle east.

[ancianita]

9. You'll find out why in Demeter's piece from zerohedge fund in this thread. It's unbelievable.

To the point:

Gen. John R. Allen, an opponent of Obama’s Iran peace strategy, now US diplomatic envoy coordinating the coalition against the Islamic State, exceeded his authorized role after meeting with Erdogan and “promised to create a "no-fly zone" ninety miles wide, over Syrian territory, along the whole border with Turkey, supposedly intended to help Syrian refugees fleeing from their government, but in reality to apply the "Juppé-Wright plan". The Turkish Prime Minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, revealed US support for the project on the TV channel A Haber by launching a bombing raid against the PKK.” Meyssan adds.