Protesters rally for 2nd night after shooting near Ferguson

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By JIM SUHR and JIM SALTER

BERKELEY, Mo. (AP) — Demonstrators took to the streets for a second night after a white police officer in Berkeley, Missouri, killed a black 18-year-old who police said pointed a gun at him.

Dozens of protesters held a vigil late Wednesday at the gas station in the St. Louis suburb where Antonio Martin was shot, and they briefly blocked traffic on Interstate 170 during a march before returning to the station. Berkeley Police Chief Frank McCall told KMOV-TV that six to eight people were arrested.

Later, about 75 people staged a peaceful protest early Christmas morning outside of a nearby church, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Police in riot gear were present.

The actions were calmer than a night before, when a crowd of about 300 people gathered at the gas station, throwing rocks and bricks in a scene reminiscent of the sometimes-violent protests that followed the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown in nearby Ferguson.

FULL story at link.



A woman walks with police near a gas station in Berkeley, Mo., on Wednesday, Dec. 24, 2014. The mayor of the St. Louis suburb of Berkeley urged calm Wednesday after a white police officer killed black 18-year-old Antonio Martin who police said pointed a gun at him, reigniting tensions that have lingered since the death of Michael Brown in neighboring Ferguson. (AP Photo/St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Robert Cohen)

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20141225/us--killings_by_police-berkeley-1c5618ede9.html

[Sherman A1]

1. I drove past the stations on Wed afternoon

The Mobil was secured by the police at the time and across the street at the QT it appeared that repairs were underway from the previous night's damage. Both stations were closed.

[heaven05]

2. If that was a gun Martin pulled

the officer was within his lawful rights to shoot first, ask questions later. I will always feel that way, no matter the color of the alleged perp or officer.

[doc03]

3. You know I think what these protests will accomplish is

police will just take their time responding to a call in these neighborhoods. If I am a cop I sure as hell don't want to
go on a call where someone points a gun at me and I get blamed for murder when I protect myself.

[heaven05]

4. well they already

take their time responding to calls in "those neighborhoods", but that's another issue. IF martin pulled a gun he brought his death upon himself, IF he didn't and that was a phone then that WILL BE another story indeed. If you are a cop, someone pulling a gun on you goes with the territory. It's the ones that don't have a gun and still die at the hands of police murderers.executioners that is extremely disturbing. If you can't take the heat, stay out the boileroom/kitchen is what I say about joining the police force. I just wish there was a way to screen out racist psychopaths and violent sociopaths in general..

[doc03]

5. Martin pulled a gun unless you refuse to believe anything the police say. I saw the video

it sure as hell looked like he pointed a gun, you don' t point a cell phone. There is also a gun on the street. If you believe the police planted the gun
there is no use discussing it unless you have some proof.

[heaven05]

17. Well, while it is still to be proven

that it was a gun, how is it that he lay there 'bleeding out' for 30 minute BEFORE an ambulance arrived? Small town, shouldn't have happened.

[Travelman]

23. Rumor. Not true.

Every report I've seen said EMS was on the scene within five minutes of when the shots were fired, and they pronounced him at the scene.

This and the "cell phone" rumor are just that: rumor, based in nothing but people's fevered imaginations.

[heaven05]

24. I'll believe it

when I hear it from a reputable source. Too many agendas and "fevered imaginations" here for my taste. Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin more than confirmed that to me. Thanks anyway.

[Travelman]

26. How about you cite the source for this ludicrous rumor that you're spreading?

Where is your proof that it took 30 minutes for EMS to arrive?


REPUTABLE sources only.



Before you even start: the current tinfoilery is that that gun was planted based upon these pictures from the scene:






Now, the tinfiolery about the gun being planted is complete and total BS because the orange cone is clearly there to mark the location of the gun, but in this case, note that the body has already been covered, less than thirty minutes after the actual shooting.

Ergo, EMS has already been there and pronounced Martin dead at the scene.



Sorry, but your BS rumor is just that: BS rumor.

[heaven05]

28. thanks for clearing it up

I think. I believe little of what I see, and none of what I read until I can be satisfied, the story is what it is. Take your BS somewhere else. Too many murders/executions lately to just say okay to the authorities story/scenario. I will NEVER do that again. You can swallow the BS, I was fed it too many times over too many years, I said never again, years ago. I do not care about your outrage at my questioning every element of the authorities story and searching out all rumors. Rumors are to be disproved not just thrown out without research . I could care less about your outrage. Period..

[Travelman]

31. I'll take that as your admission that you cannot source your rumor

I have no outrage, at least as far as your silly claims. I just get tired of the conclusion-leaping.

I have said for a very, VERY long time that the police are not your friend. I've personally warned friends of this many times. I genuinely believe that there are a lot of bad, power-mad cops out there who think that they're bad-asses because they have a gun and a badge.

But I'm also very picky about dealing in actual fact. And in this case, it's pretty abundantly clear that Antonio Martin pointed a gun at the cop.



Another uncomfortable fact: there really aren't that many Black men getting killed by police. This year is a record low for people of any stripe to die in police custody, and on average, Black males are only very slightly over-represented in the population of those who have been killed by police. People around here don't want to believe it, because they really want a good reason to be really angry about something, but the reality is that if you (the Royal You) look at the actual cases individually, almost every case of police shootings in the last decade or so were cases that were completely justified, whether the one who died was Black, white, Hispanic, male, female, Asian, or anything else.



I don't swallow any BS. I always research any claim on my own, everything from police shootings to tax policy to whether or not the national speed limit should be 55 MPH (it isn't any more). Rumors from twitter and faceboob are not the basis of how I view facts. Sorry,

[heaven05]

34. Like I could really care about your silly 'proof' and offensive attitude.

and I don't really care about what you're tired of. You're JUST one more with an opinion based on what you want to see. That's all you are. Period. Another fact, lot's of black men are getting executed by white racist cops these days. Like I said you are JUST one individual spouting off with your own brand of BS. My opinion of your opinion is that you are really full of yourself and your privilege. That's means you are just another showing their true self to the world. And that true self is nobody to me.

[Travelman]

58. Darn those pesky facts!

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/berkeley-officials-man-killed-by-police-had-pointed-gun-at/article_5027be1d-c99e-5cb9-9c1a-04ca73316591.html

Officials said Martin was shot at 11:15 p.m., Dec. 23, paramedics arrived to treat him at 11:21 p.m. and the body was logged in at the medical examiner's office at 2 a.m. Dec. 24.

[ccarmenfrongillo]

52. I saw the video

and that young man did point a gun at the cop.

[branford]

36. When you hear rumors of EMS taking its time in a police-involved shooting,

you should always be skeptical, unless its something very unusual and easily explainable like a natural disaster such as a earthquake.

EMS, fire and police work together very closely and often know one another personally. When they hear about a police shooting, they tend to move very fast, if for no other reason than an officer may be or become injured. You can believe the worst of police and their investigative skills after a shooting, but they and their friends and allies will not risk an officer's life so early in the process when most of the facts are unknown and the situation is still chaotic.

In any event, this story has something for everyone. A young black male who was allegedly armed and a police department with new body cameras, but the officer wasn't using his. The security footage is of poor enough quality that preconceived notions can influence what people choose to see. We even have a well known cast of characters like Governor Nixon and the SLPD.

I haven't yet followed the case closely enough to offer any firm opinions, good or bad. However, if the man indeed pointed a gun at the officer in anything approaching a lawful encounter, I cannot imagine any criminal fault on behalf of the officer.

[heaven05]

37. thanks

I would really like to see/hear/read what you think after and if you look into this latest officer involved shooting incident. Yet the question arises, does not the original call for EMS, since that are such close allies, carry with it a description of who has been shot, officer or alleged perp and that could be a real reason that EMS MIGHT slow down? Just a question. No indictment of EMS. They do always seem neutral.

[branford]

38. My knowledge of medical emergency services is far inferior to my expertise

concerning the law and police procedure.

However, EMS, like most in the medical field, are very professional and would never discriminate in how their provide care to any victim. It would be unethical and could result in losing not only their employment, but their licenses.

I imagine that the original call to EMS probably indicated that an individual suffered a gunshot wound. I have no idea if the fact that an officer was the shooter was even mentioned, although the information was likely widely available over the radio. However, the emergency call would have been made immediately, while all facts were still unknown and where the situation could change at any time. For instance, remember that there was still a alleged second suspect on the loose and others bystanders around. The fact that the entire area is still somewhat on edge due to the Brown shooting and post-grand jury riots means that police, civilians and even EMS workers are at risk on any shooting call.

Without significant and fairly incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, and regardless of one's feeling about the police generally, I would be cautious of assigning any ill motives or conduct to the EMS response. They routinely treat young minority victims in bad neighborhoods under poor conditions, and their relationship with most communities is certainly not adversarial.

[THECHOSEN1]

41. If you don't want to get shot

Don't pull a gun on the police. It's pretty easy really.

[heaven05]

43. IF, that happened, true

very simple. Not proven he did, at this time.

[doc03]

6. I don't know how to put other than "those neighborhoods". Every town seems to have areas

were there is a high crime rate. The south side, 33 rd street, east side, west side whatever. I was in St. Petersburg Florida last winter and was told by the bike rental store don't take the bike trail south of Tropicana Field, there had been several muggings and assaults there and one of their rental customers ended up in the hospital. Same goes for here you don't go on 3rd street at night in one town, you don't go to the east side in another.

[heaven05]

15. right

Last edited Thu Dec 25, 2014, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)

yet concerning your prior statement. I will wait for witnesses and positive proof that this young man pulled a loaded weapon on a police officer. The video is unclear to me. The mayor of this town is AA and unlike ferguson the police force IS representative of the city's population. Concerning the "bad" parts of town. The reasons for these neighborhoods is usually given as, "oh they are all bad in that part of town", "oh I don't understand why they are all like that in that part of town", and those are a couple of the 'reasons' given for people not to visit the parts of town you mentioned. While I know without a doubt that those parts of town you stated are predominantly minority, the real historical, sociological, economic reasons for these "bad" parts are discounted with the broadbrush stereotyping of the inhabitants of "those areas" as I have read countless times.

I am not saying anything about your character, your intent or racial/political leanings. What I am trying to point out when I take note of words, statements like "those neighborhoods", "those people" is that it is unnecessary to point out when the reality of why they might be that way is totally ignored in favor of the broad brush statements meant to convey a knowledge or feeling about "those neighborhoods" by people NOT forced into that gulag system. There are by and large, many decent, hard working, tax paying, non drug using, non alcoholic, non criminal people in "those neighborhoods" struggling, like many in this country, just to get by..

If minorities weren't steered into the american racial gulags/ghetto system and were more spread out in many communities, as are certain other races, then the instance of crime would be as it is in those "other" communities of non minorities. A statistic not skewed or not worth note.

Yeah, stay out of those areas mentioned, you might run into a "bad" person, just like in certain parts of Florida, Staten Island, ferguson, cincinnatti, clevland and many, many more towns, burgs, neighborhoods, if I am a black person, man, woman or child I might run into a "bad person' intent on killing me because I'm in their area with the wrong color skin..

[doc03]

16. I agree everyone is not bad in those neighborhoods. Steubenville Ohio has a serious problem here

the people there have had marches to demonstrate against the bad element. Most all of the arrests
are outsiders from Cleveland, Columbus or Chicago. It seems like for every one of them they put away
two are there the next day to take over.

[ellenrr]

7. well obviously this cop did not share your feeling. nt

[DallasNE]

20. Neither Camera Was Turned On

Either would have provided conclusive evidence. So why have cameras if you refuse to use them. As it is we are left with a grainy video where it is not possible to tell what was going on. It looks like he raised his arm, at which point the video stops, but I only see one motion. Was he just gesturing with his arm or had he previously pulled out a gun and raised it to point at the officer. The video quality is too poor to determine if he had something in his hand. At this point you have to give the officer the benefit of the doubt but the video is pretty inconclusive due to poor quality and selective editing. Letting the video roll for another 5 seconds might help clear things up as well. Was his arm still up as he flinched/fell from being struck by a gunshot and did something go flying from his hand, for instance.

[DallasNE]

33. Thinkprogress Now Has An Article Up

And they are complaining about many of the things I point out here, such as the video cutting off too soon and the question is why use this selective editing. There is a picture of a gun on the ground but the body is nowhere to be found in the picture so how far away is it. Indeed, it is hard to tell if the photo was taken at the scene since there is no landmark for reference meaning it could be stock photo. I'm not making that claim but the poor quality of presentation is a problem because of the claims of raising questions.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/25/3606915/video-footage-from-missouri-shooting-raising-questions/

[MrScorpio]

8. Solidarity

[KingCharlemagne]

9. Goddamn, but that sign is some seriously sad shit. Thanks for posting -- copied

and shared to FB and social media.

[MrScorpio]

10. But that's not all. Check this out:

If you look at the corner of that building, you'll see that it's ringed with cameras. Here's a better look:



So I'm wondering, why did they only released footage from a camera that's farther away and only rendered an extremely blurry image and was cut off at a crucial moment?

If they actually had clear footage of Martin pointing a "gun" from one of those closer cameras, don't you'd think that we'd have seen it by now?

Hmmm… Very interesting.

[KingCharlemagne]

11. As Randi Rhodes might say, whom are you going to trust, the

cops or your own lying eyes?

I'm certain that, in the capable hands of Bob McCulloch and his staff of little Eichmanns, justice will be served.

[straydog]

12. security cameras

I install security cameras for a living, the two outer most cameras appear to be for the gas pumps, the other two look away from the corner into the parking lot. I would suspect the second camera from the left is the one that produced the video that just catches the edge what happened.

[Igel]

13. If you've wondered for long, you might have some hypotheses going.

One possibility could be that not all the cameras were turned on or recording properly at the time.

Then again, the cameras obviously aren't all pointing in the same direction. One appears to be at right angles to another. A third seems to be pointed at nearly 180 degrees to another. The words accompany the image but don't really seem to be related to it. This leads to second possibility--that perhaps there weren't that many cameras which, even if on and recording, could have taped the encounter.

It's always possible that some footage doesn't support the police version--in which you can be pretty sure that a tolerable attorney will get it or determine that it ceased existing.

As for "blurry," that happens at a distance. Not a sufficiently high pixel density on the CCD, perhaps now-obsolete analog recording technology, lossy compression algorithms ...

[George II]

14. There have been three different angles released so far, there may be more.....

....the police can't just break into stores and seize the tapes, they have to wait for access.

[jwirr]

19. I am not an expert but if there is a photo of someone with a gun why can't they zoom in and show

it clearer? You see this done all the time. If the cameras on the store are like so many other stores they do not have film. Hopefully we will get to see.

[Ace Rothstein]

21. The only times I've seen that are on Law and Order.

I don't think it works the same way in the real world. It isn't like they are using HD cameras used for football games.

[jwirr]

22. I do genealogy and look up census records. They are very small when I pull them up and I have to

zoom in to read them. If I can do it then I would assume that others can to, especially trained policemen. We also use it to zero in on old photos when we want to see one person in a group. This is not rocket science.

[straydog]

27. jwirr

Most security cameras are analog, the more you try to zoom in on the image the more it pixelates. The newer IP cameras allow you to zoom in better IF they are properly set up. Zooming in on a old picture is a lot different than zooming in on a video clip. The stuff you see in the movies is not accurate.

[jwirr]

39. Thank you. Too bad. I would assume that many times that would be a useful tool.

[Rhiannon12866]

57. Thanks for sharing your expertise on this...

I learned something today. And welcome to DU, straydog! It's great to have you with us!

[Travelman]

25. More video WAS released

You would have seen it by now if you had bothered to check.



http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/protesters-confront-police-at-site-where-berkeley-officer-killed-suspect/article_d45db16a-7422-5307-b81d-b45dbdc896ba.html

http://fox2now.com/2014/12/24/surveillance-video-released-of-fatal-officer-involved-shooting-in-berkeley/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/24/man-shot-killed-berkeley/20849045/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/24/justice/missouri-officer-involved-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

http://www.kmov.com/home/Video-New-footage-released-show-moments-after-Berkeley-officer-involved-shooting-286799361.html

Dumbass pointed a gun at a cop. No, it was NOT a cell phone.

[heaven05]

29. Hope you're right

it's not clear on any of the videos except the one with the officers tripping. No gun seen. I'll wait for the witnesses. You are in too much of a hurry to label people "dumbass" and what ever you're saying in private or FB. Your 'proof" is just PART of the story , not the whole story. I wait for a more reputable source and witnesses on the scene. I'll reserve judgement till then. Too many executions/murders going on by police for me to worry about whether one person on here gets an attitude because people are protesting against murders and executions of unarmed black people, nationwide, by police officers with questionable motives.

[NaturalHigh]

46. I've always been of the opinion...

that if you pull a gun on a police officer, nothing good is going to happen.

[mnhtnbb]

18. The thing that bothers me most about the details of this shooting

is that the story released by the cops has already changed, along with
their reason for not releasing all the tapes at the same time. Whether
they decided to change the story, doctor the tapes, plant the gun,
who the hell knows?

I also just cannot fathom why a young black man would pull a gun on a cop,
at point blank range, and not expect to get killed. It makes no sense.
He and his friend were not running from the store. They were carrying bags
that look as though they contained purchases. And why the hell didn't the cop
immediately call for back up and get an ambulance when he ran away to hide behind
the gas pumps?

We do know from the tape that there was one witness standing right next to the man
who was killed--and he ran back into the store. I'd like to hear his side of what happened.

[heaven05]

30. If he did pull a gun

then it's obvious he had some type of mental problem/death wish.

[PersonNumber503602]

32. There seems to have been plenty of witnesses around.

[heaven05]

35. and I am waiting for them to speak out also

there is just no way I will take any authority's word on any scenario, ever again. I'll wait for the complete story after proper investigation by an objective person/organization.

[PersonNumber503602]

40. Understandable. The fact the body cam wasn't on also adds to the suspicion

Based on what I've seen, it looks like the cop definitely felt threatened and it does look like a gun was pulled, but ya never know these days. The lack of the body cam being on always raises some red flags and it should for sure be looked into more. Those camera's default state should be on, and when turned off there should be timeout that forces purposeful intervention to keep them off. It's interesting how everyone is so quick to pick and then find evidence to support their side, rather than letting the evidence tell the story. It's even difficult to have a discussion about what's going on without either being labeled a cop hater or an unconditional cop lover.

[Calista241]

49. You do realize that body cams will present a limited field of view.

People move and turn their heads in all sorts of directions. Any movement by the officer or the subject will affect the field of view of the camera.

In this case there were 2 subjects, so the officer would most likely be facing some point between them. So, while it's possible a body camera could show what we want it to show, it's just as likely the camera could show nothing conclusive as well.

In any kind of a shootout situation, the cops will certainly try to conceal themselves behind doors, in breezeways, behind numerous other types of objects. The cameras will have almost no utility in such a situation.

[PersonNumber503602]

59. That is true, but I don't think that negates their value...

Any video or audio is better than no video or audio.

[cwydro]

50. That cop running backwards pretty much says it all to me.

He was in fear for his life.

[heaven05]

51. that is telling

yet a verbal threat could have been made, I don't know. Video is too inconclusive.. I'll wait on a hopefully proper investigation conclusion. I still just don't trust anything anymore.

[George II]

44. How has the story changed? I've only seen one so far.

[mnhtnbb]

48. The original report was the cop was on a routine drive by. Then it was changed

that he was responding to a shoplifting call.

"Police say a Berkeley police officer was on a routine patrol when he noticed two men on the side of the business."

http://fox2now.com/2014/12/24/berkeley-police-officer-involved-in-fatal-shooting/


"We had a policeman responding to a call," he said, noting that the officer had been called to the scene by a report of a young man shoplifting.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/24/372867144/police-kill-young-man-in-st-louis-area-sparking-new-anger

[Ramses]

42. thanks for the article

Bookmarking for later

[NaturalHigh]

45. Would the protesters prefer that the police officer...

just stand there and get shot?

[sheshe2]

53. Actually,

I believe the protestors would prefer not to be profiled, assumed guilty and shot while walking and driving and living. Or for that matter just for being black. Deny it if you wish, yet there is an uptick of murder by cop of unarmed black men. That is a fact.

[GGJohn]

54. But that's not what happened in this incident. eom.

[sheshe2]

55. Yes, we continue to hear yor proffessional analysis.

[GGJohn]

56. Are you typing on an I-Phone?

[madville]

47. Sounds like suicide by cop

Pulling a gun on the police is pretty much suicidal