City Councilman: 2 Police Officers Shot Dead In Brooklyn

[KinMd]

Source: WCBS New York

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — Two police officers have been shot dead in Brooklyn, City Councilman Robert Cornegy said at a news conference Saturday afternoon.

As 1010 WINS’ Gary Baumgarten reported, there is a huge police presence at the corner of Myrtle Avenue & Tompkins Avenue in Bedford-Stuyves

Sources told 1010 WINS the two officers were taken to Woodhull Hospital with gunshot injuries.

Authorities say the suspect ran into the subway, where he shot himself. Authorities say he is believed to be dead, the Associated Press reported.

Read more: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/20/sources-2-police-officers-shot-in-brooklyn/

[Historic NY]

1. ABC has the officers shot while in their vehicle both critical...

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Sad.

[Horse with no Name]

3. When the police become the enemy of "the people"

I expect this will continue. The phony drug wars may have just got real.

[GGJohn]

5. Are you saying this is ok?

These 2 cops deserved to be shot because of the actions of some rogue cops?

[Horse with no Name]

9. Had to look at my post again...no, I don't think I said that

IN fact, I didn't even come close to saying that.

However, if people feel threatened, they will fight back.

Without knowing anything about the particular cops shot, I won't speculate if they were good or bad. However, it appears somebody else might know more about that.

[GGJohn]

13. No, it sounds like the shooter was looking to shoot any cops,

and these 2 just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[RoccoR5955]

16. You do realize

that if you KNOW this, and withhold information, that you are considered an accessory to the crime.
If you do not know this, and are just talking off the cuff, you really have no right to say this, because you do not know any of the details.

[NutmegYankee]

42. He has the right to say whatever he wants in the land of Free Speech.

People speculate on DU all the time. As to your first statement, the poster you replied to said "it sounds like", which is understood to be speculation and not knowledge.

[RoccoR5955]

71. Oh, so I guess it's okay

to yell, "Fire," in a crowded theatre.
Sorry, some things are NOT free speech.
Free speech is not your right to say ANYTHING.

[NutmegYankee]

77. Was his speculation putting anyone in immediate danger to life/limb?

And for the record, it isn't illegal to yell fire in a theater. That got overturned by the SCOTUS in the 1960s.

[KingCharlemagne]

78. It most certainly is still illegal to falsely call 'Fire' in a crowded theater. If you

think SCOTUS made that legal, please provide the decision "in the 1960s" that made it so.

[NutmegYankee]

79. Nope. That is not the current legal standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater#The_Schenck_case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

[KingCharlemagne]

84. Sigh. Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) overturned Schenck (1917), but in no way did it clear the way

for people to cry falsely 'Fire' inside a crowded theater.

Quoting from the latter of your two links (emphasis added):

Finally, Douglas dealt with the classic example of a man "falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic". In order to explain why someone could be legitimately prosecuted for this, Douglas called it an example in which "speech is brigaded with action". In the view of Douglas and Black, this was probably the only sort of case in which a person could be prosecuted for speech.

[NutmegYankee]

87. It did away with the clear and present danger qualification.

The Majority opinion (7 justices) did not contain the statement you quoted. That was a concurrence.

I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU and a Guardians of Freedom donor. We can play this game all night. I know my freedom of speech.

[KingCharlemagne]

88. IANAL and have no desire to 'play this game,' since I am out of my depth. I will note, however,

tbat during the recent Ebola scare in the U.S. there were a couple instances of passengers on public transportation (schoolgirls, IIRC) who yelled that they had 'Ebola'. Authorities subsequently announced their intention to prosecute said false criers. Are you claiming that Brandenburg protects those people's speech rights who falsely yell in public that they have Ebola?

[NutmegYankee]

89. Police can charge you with just about anything.

Getting a conviction that survives appeals courts is an entirely different matter. I suspect the cases will die once the furor is gone.

This is one of the reasons the arrest files getting circulated so widely has been so corrosive to a free society. Police can really arrest anybody at any time and while most charges won't stick, you still have your mugshot up there to be used by data aggregators.

[RoccoR5955]

94. Police get a conviction on anything most of the time

Because they hide behind their blue wall, make up one lie, and all of them stick to it. They KNOW that they can get away with it, because people foolishly, believe the testimony from police officers, rather than others.
Don't believe me, follow the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/why-police-officers-lie-under-oath.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[NutmegYankee]

95. Oh I believe you.

A near fatal flaw in our justice system.

[Psephos]

109. Your posts in this thread are knowledgable and apt, Nutmeg.

More power to you for your ACLU and Guardians of Freedom activities.

[GGJohn]

80. And my comment comes nowhere close to that analogy.

I said it SOUNDS LIKE they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
That's an opinion and it turns out I was correct.

[GGJohn]

81. Yes, it is ok to yell fire in a crowded theater

if there's evidence of a fire.

[GGJohn]

73. You do know that I said "it sounds like"?

Now it's confirmed by the message he posted on his GF's Instagram account after he shot her also.

[Horse with no Name]

18. Very sad

As in everything, the innocent will pay for the crimes of the guilty.

[Skittles]

97. actually the cops were in the right place at the right time

it's the gun humper who was in the wrong place at the wrong time

[GGJohn]

98. Touche'.

You are, of course, correct.

[Skittles]

102. HEY!

thanks

[lame54]

27. I didn't read it that way at all

[Scootaloo]

32. No, he's not saying that at all

However, it IS inevitable. if cops keep getting off the hook, sooner or later, someone is going to start plugging them. It's not okay, it's not justified, but it's what will happen.

[PatrynXX]

44. I didn't read that

but I do think if you are scared of the cops like I am now. you panic. anyone who has a panic disorder might do bad things. I have panic attacks. I sure as shit pull the fuck over if ones behind me. nevermind if you see one the opposite way I believe I'm still supposed to pull over but bit confusing there. for sure fire engines

[markpkessinger]

25. I think it is best to avoid, absent clear evidence, characterizing this particular shooter . . .

. . . as being in any way representative of the people "fighting back." I mean, as it is, police and their supporters will attempt to use this incident as 'proof' that their past and ongoing brutality against the African American community is justified. We shouldn't in any way feed that attempt. Given that the shooter immediately committed suicide, it sounds like he was nut case determined to go out in a 'blaze of glory.'

[kelly1mm]

4. Alleged (but not verified) tweet from the perp:

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Do you know the source for that?

It's just that people (I'm not saying you - I know I've seen it elsewhere already) are known to put up fake social media posts the moment something happens.

[kelly1mm]

8. Nope, I do not have a source. There is a bunch of confusion and this MAY (hopefully)

be made up. I will edit to make sure people know it is unverified.

[PersonNumber503602]

10. The instagram account is easy to find

http://instagram.com/dontrunup/


Not clear if it's just an elaborate attempt to get attention though.


EDIT: less than a minute after posting that, the instagram account seems to be gone. The post directly following the post from the screen shot, the person posted another picture of his pants with blood stains on them.

[4139]

14. It was there, now gone. Nm

[lame54]

28. next is the Nostradamus quote

[Raine1967]

11. there is also this: (unverified)

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/546423534944149504/photo/1

It Appears The Shooter Posted To Facebook After Shooting Woman Before NYPD Attack - http://bit.ly/1w9AR2j pic.twitter.com/p9G5hhfoAe

[PersonNumber503602]

12. The instagram account is gone now.

[Omaha Steve]

7. So sad

[KinMd]

15. There's some conflicting reports on whether or both officers are dead

[inanna]

22. Reports now saying one officer died, the other critically wounded

Associated Press as of 5:07 PM

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/12/20/two_new_york_police_officers_shot_in_car_critically_injured.html

[NutmegYankee]

29. It's been updated to 2 dead.

[ColesCountyDem]

17. How awful!

[NutmegYankee]

19. Oh God. We do not need violence.

It'll just escalate and everything will harden up.

[reddread]

37. +1

[RoccoR5955]

20. And so it begins...

The war between the people, and the police starts here.

[avebury]

24. The NYC PD have been operating out of control

for some time without consequence (as are many police officers across the country). While we do know know yet the shooter's motive in this case, just what do police officers think is going to happen when they fail to uphold their duty to protect and serve the people and instead act like out of control thugs?

[George II]

30. What an INCORRECT, irrelevant, and irreverent thing to say at this time!

[Scootaloo]

33. "Irreverent"?

I'm sorry, are we supposed to revere someone in this?

The guy's a murderer, and apparently had it in his mind to be a vigilante. The apparent source of his vigilantism is the justice system's utter and abject refusal to bring justice to cops. This must be understood - the justice system isn't just failing hte poeple by giving cops a pass, but it is putting police in danger as well.

These two officers did not "have it coming," this man is not a "hero," but really, truly it needs to be understood what is going on here. And worse, it needs to be understood that this man is not likely to be the last. Things have to change, or a lot of people - police and civilians alike - are going to end up hurt and maybe dead.

Restore justice to the justice system.

[GliderGuider]

38. +1

[George II]

40. We should show these two officers a little respect at this time.

[Igel]

110. Unless the police were actually guilty,

then it's just "collective punishment." (I'd call it "communal," but that's more of a subcontinent thing, I think.)

A member of group X does something, you get to "legitimately" punish any other member of group X. People are members of groups first and foremost, not individuals. A completely different premise from what much of Western liberal thought--apart from the racist thinking that occupied some corners--has assumed for the last few hundred years.

And that bears repeating: It's exactly the same kind of broad-brush stereotyped thinking that you get in racist circles. One person in a certain group does something, all members are assumed to be the same or to do the same thing. When it's overt racism we complain about it; when it's less tied to something that we hate (and more tied to some idea we tend to like), well, that kind of thinking is perfect. Whatever makes us right is right.

If they were actually guilty, then it's vigilantism, an individual setting himself up as judge, jury, and executioner.

Even without a restoration of justice to the justice system, defending this or trying to excuse it is a big step down from the lofty goals that some claim.

[Scootaloo]

111. I'm not defending or excusing a damned thing

I'm pointing out what happened, and the unfortunate fact that it's likely to happen again.

[avebury]

43. Are you familiar with all the crap that has gone

on with the NYPD?

You might want to start with reading Adrian Schoolcraft and what they did to him (a fellow cop).

[George II]

47. YES, I am familiar with "all the crap" that people are SAYING is going on...

....so I suppose you're okay with two police officers being assassinated this afternoon, right?

We had some clown on this site yesterday saying "MOST" police officers in NYC are bad cops! I don't know where all this shit is coming from. People on DU are doing EXACTLY what they're upset about with what Fox News and the rightwing have been doing.

All this lumping of everyone in a group (in this case NYC police officers - ALL THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND OF THEM!!!) into a particular category merely because of some.

It's really getting repulsive.

[Scootaloo]

61. You're looking for something to be outraged over.

Might I suggest installing Team Fortress 2? It's helped me greatly when I feel the need to blast away at things.

[Historic NY]

56. Well your blaming everyone at the NYPD these guys were out their protecting...

thats why they were at that location, its called a terrorism drill. They got assassinated for their efforts. But we will never know exactly since the fucking coward killed himself. Somewhere in Md. is another one of his victims, a female.

[avebury]

60. I am pointing out the unintended consequences when you

have a police system that protects out of control police thugs while punishing those cops who stand up against the status quo system. All cops are put at risk rather it be from common criminals, nut jobs, or the masses who become fed up with the feeling like the police are more dangerous to us than ISIS and other Islamic groups. Actions do have consequences sooner or later and not always from the direction you expect it from.

[PFunk]

39. My thoughts exactly.

Time to start toning this war down now BEFORE it gets kicked up. After all it's the cops who are pissing off the ones who hold your paycheck (i.e. a lot of the public).

[branford]

52. The violence needs to be toned down, but I do not agree with your rationale.

I'm a lifelong resident of NYC. Despite the perceptions and opinions of many here on DU, the NYPD is actually quite popular with a great many New Yorkers. Even the majority of liberal residents appreciate the perceived safety and security provided by the NYPD and our relatively low crime rates compared to other cities like Chicago and Washington, D.C., particularly since the near lawless era of the 1970's and 80's has not been forgotten. Never forget that we elected Rudy Giuliani twice, gave three terms to Michael Bloomberg, and Bill Bratton, Giuliani's "broken windows" anti-crime architect, is once again our Police Commissioner, even under the far more liberal Bill DiBlasio.

When cops are shot in the line of duty, the NYPD receives a lot of support, and even better press coverage. All violence against cops accomplishes is giving right and justification to the bad cops, who are a distinct minority in a department of over 34,000 officers, risk making good cops pause or turn the other cheek, and engender greater support among the citizens of the city for more aggressive policing.

If there is a "war," understand that the cops will likely be the ones with the majority of public support, despite incidents like the Garner choking (remember, the grand jury chose not to indict!), and most importantly, the vast majority of the guns and military equipment.

[adigal]

101. Maybe in Manhattan, where cops protect the rich and famous

But not the rest of the city in my experience. Well, Staten Island also, obviously.

[branford]

103. There a reason why Mayor DiBlasio hired Rudy Giuliani's police commissioner,

and why Giuliani himself was so overwhelming elected to his second term. Racial policing problems favoring minorities like the incidents in Crown Heights and Korean Boycott are also widely attributed to have precipitated David Dinkin's loss to Giuliani. People like to feel safe, and the NYPD is a potent symbol of the safety and security now found in NYC.

Moreover, not everyone is "rich and famous" in Manhattan, and the outer boroughs do not consist solely of poor oppressed minorities with some racist working class whites on Staten Island. Such stereotypes are ludicrous and insulting.

In any event, as I mentioned in Post #64, now the more interesting question is whether DiBlasio will attend the officers' funerals.

[seveneyes]

21. Perhaps outrage will follow this senseless shooting

Time will tell.

[ReRe]

23. Someone said this was going to start happening...

... here on DU a few days ago. It had already crossed my mind too. And here it starts. Hope it doesn't continue. A deadly example of the old adage "Two wrongs don't make a right."

[christx30]

26. Looks like both were

female officers. Very sad about their deaths.
I don't like cops, but I don't like to see violence against anyone. I'd rather see them reigned in.

[KinMd]

31. NY1 is reporting the shooter murdered a woman in Baltimore before going to Brooklyn

[starroute]

34. One story said it was his girlfriend he'd killed

If that's true, it looks more like one of these misogynistic shootings of women than a racial incident. But the details need to become more certain first.

[George II]

48. She was shot, but she will recover (according to the reports)

[LiberalElite]

35. In this link it says 1 dead the other critical

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nypd-cop-dead-critical-shot-vehicle/story?id=27738835

"One New York City police officer is dead and another was in critical condition today after they were shot as they sat in their patrol vehicle in the Bedford Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn, city officials said.

The suspect in the shooting was also dead, of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, the officials said."

[NutmegYankee]

36. The time stamp is nearly 2 hours old.

Newer articles say both have died.

[LiberalElite]

46. Oh ok sorry - I tried to check nt

[George II]

49. So I guess you're condoning what happened this afternoon?

[npk]

51. I do not comdone any violence

But I know it will happen and continue to happen whether I like it or not. I also know that police depend on the voluntary cooperation of citizens, because obviously the citizens out number the cops, but when police stand behind corrupt officers and officers that have committed out right murder, they place themselves in grave danger.

Now it appears that this suspect who killed these two cops probably had other motives than simply to search out the police and do harm, but other people, especially young black men, are being treated like animals, and that is only going to last so long before some people take matters into their own hands. Again I am not saying that I agree with this, but it doesn't matter what I wish.

[George II]

54. So you KNOW that these two officers "stood behind corrupt officers.....etc."?

[Skittles]

63. don't you understand, George II?

stereotyping people is wrong unless it is LEO - then it is open season

[TorchTheWitch]

72. and pretty much nobody stands up to it here

And it's gone so outrageously over the top that there's even one person here that jumps into any thread claiming they're ALL murderous thugs itching to kill people, and no one ever says a word to them. DU is riddled with psychotic police hatred - ALL police - but pretty much no one says a word no matter how insane the comments are... which is exactly how they got that insane. Even in this thread about the tragedy of two officers being murdered outright for doing nothing but sitting in their squad car most of the comments are about bad cops (which they're certain they all are) and how it's their own fault when they get killed because of the bad ones.

It would never have gotten anything close to this bad were it not for the decent people here that have always ignored it.

[Skittles]

75. they sound as ridiculous as racists

seriously

[branford]

76. Some types of bigotry, bias and generalizations are acceptable to far too many here on DU.

The fact that the NYPD, with its 35,000 officers, is extremely diverse, is also apparently ignored.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

[TorchTheWitch]

86. sometimes even worse

At least racists seem to have been brought up with their nutty beliefs. These people freely made the choice to believe as they do. Quite a few have said outright that they came by their beliefs about all police because of one or two unpleasant encounters with one... as if that says anything about all of them. Yet it would never occur to them to have an unpleasant encounter with a retail worker, librarian, lawyer, doctor, etc. and believe them all to be just as bad.

Worse, they know they don't really believe as they claim or they'd all be hiding under their beds terrified the police would come crashing through their door at any moment or breaking out in a cold sweat any time a cop car passed them on the road or in line with them at the mini-market.

[steve2470]

91. +1 nt

[giftedgirl77]

59. What utter nonsense you spew....

Don't use this senseless act to come here & spew your craziness. Go back under whatever rock you crawled out from under & leave both Mike Brown & Eric Garner out of it.

[hrmjustin]

50. Some of the responses in this thread leave a lot to be desired.

[steve2470]

57. +1 nt

[bravenak]

53. My thought go out to the families of the victims.

I hope anyone wounded by this sicko recovers.

[branford]

64. I don't want to sound ghoulish,

and my heart goes out to the families of the slain officers, but I'm curious about the potential political fallout from the shooting. Specifically, the police union's assertion that Mayor DiBlasio is unwelcome at police officers' funerals because of his perceived bias against the police in the aftermath of the grand jury decision not to indict in the Garner death.

Funerals of police officers slain in the line of duty are a big deal here in NYC, and I cannot imagine that the mayor would not want to attend or the political repercussions of not being seen properly extending his condolences. I'm hopeful the wiser and respected people like Commissioner Bratton will be able to bridge the divide between the union and mayor. The opinion of the affected families, of course, will be very determinative. I similarly hope that those individuals protesting police violence choose not to disrupt the funerals. It would be extremely unbecoming and counterproductive to the cause.

I'm anxious to hear the official statements from the mayor, union, and families of the slain officers.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

65. The suspect wasn't a local.

[LiberalElite]

66. Here's my 2 cents as an NYC resident -

albeit a Causcasian one. Yes the NYPD has routinely gone after persons of color "just because.". Yes there have been numerous well-publicized police brutality incidents going back decades. I have attended demos and protests for Abner Louima (sodomized with a broomstick) and Amadou Diallo (shot multiple times in his apartment building lobby because cops mistook his wallet for a gun) and also Eric Garner. All that notwithstanding, this is a tragedy and a crime. It seems to me these cops were targeted just because they're cops. I think the perp was just a thug hiding behind "no justice no peace". This does not help anyone. They'[ll try to stick blame for this on all the protesters.

[jtuck004]

67. MICHAEL "Maybe so -- but it occurred to me. The soldiers are paid to fight -- the rebels aren't."

ROTH "What does that tell you?"

MICHAEL "They can win."

Michael reflecting on what he saw when a "rebel" jumped into a police/soldier's car, killing them and himself with a grenade.

Never will forget that scene from The Godfather.

[kjones]

68. Jesus....

the people saying "this is what happens when cops are corrupt" or "actions have consequences"...
crap like that is is completely repulsive.

[Jesus Malverde]

69. Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos..nt

[Catherine Vincent]

70. May they rest in peace

Condolences to their families.

[840high]

100. Rest in peace.

[hrmjustin]

74. It could have been my nephew!

He is a police officer and I was scared to death that it could have been him.

[GGJohn]

82. Glad he's ok hrmjustin,

tell him to stay frosty.

[hrmjustin]

83. He texted me a few hours ago to say that he was ok but he is taking it hard.

He is at the hospital now in solidarity.

[Beausoir]

96. Yes. For those of us who have cops in the family...these are terrible times.

Prayers for the families of the two executed cops.

Such a terrible waste.

[steve2470]

99. glad your nephew is ok, hrmjustin! nt

[leanforward]

85. The Officers are Missed.

Let us not word smith who deserves what in a shooting. The Officers did not deserve this. The perpetrator is gone? We do have freedom of speech that applies to all of us, with legal exceptions. Why, why, why?

[Odin2005]

92. I'm having trouble feeling sympathy for the cops.

[GGJohn]

93. I'm certainly not.

So are you saying that they don't deserve our sympathies and condolences?

[still_one]

104. and that says everything about you as a human being

[montana_hazeleyes]

105. Well, I have sympathy for anyone murdered.

Especially if it is just because they belong to a particular group. And how about their families? Friends? All who care for them?

[kelly1mm]

106. You are a vile human being in my onpinion if your are having trouble feeling

sympathy for the cops.

You want to alert? Go ahead and if I get a hide I will wear it as a badge of HONOR.

[Recursion]

107. Seriously? (nt)

[Skittles]

108. stereotype much?