Sydney siege: Hostages held at Martin Place cafe

[Bosonic]

Source: ABC

A police operation is underway in the heart of Sydney's CBD.

Police have not confirmed the nature of the operation, but members of the public have been seen with their hands pressed up against the windows of a building.

An Islamic flag has also been seen in the window.

Witnesses have reported hearing loud bangs that sounded like gun shots.

Read more: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-15/hostages-sydney-cafe-martin-place-police-operation/5967232

---

Sydney siege: reports of hostage situation inside Martin Place cafe – live

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2014/dec/15/sydney-siege-reports-of-hostage-situation-inside-martin-place-cafe-live

[YoungDemCA]

1. Fucking hell..

Let's hope this doesn't end horribly.

[Archae]

2. It's ISIS.

I expect it to.

[PSPS]

4. No indication it's IS. The banner isn't the one they use.

[Posteritatis]

7. Yeah, their flag's pretty distinctive and that isn't it

That said, there's a number of groups in the same general range of amicable loveliness which use one kind of "white script on black flag" motif, so there's definitely a range of responsible parties. Ugh.

[Archae]

31. Yeah, unfortunately.

Fundys again.

[IcyPeas]

3. It's on tv - BBC world news now

watching... it's 11 in the morning there.

the airspace around Syndey has been diverted.

streets cordoned off

nearby offices/stores have been evacuated.

This is big.

[KeepItReal]

5. BBC says 13 people being held hostage

Damn.

[IcyPeas]

6. Here's live video from Australia's channel 7

https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/17174725/yahoo-7-live-sydney/


sydney opera house is shut down.

[KeepItReal]

13. Thank you for the link

eom

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Possible suspicious package

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/sydney-opera-house-evacuated-after-reports-suspicious-package-6206406

[Ex Lurker]

8. Tactical Assault Group-East is based in Sydney

I don't expect the SAS to fuck around too long with this.

[IcyPeas]

9. another live stream from channel 9 in Australia

http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/12/15/10/00/Major-police-operation-in-Sydneys-Martin-Place

[Rhinodawg]

10. Probably Jabhat Al-Nusra

unfortunate.

[IcyPeas]

11. Martin Place is in the center of Sydney

business and shopping district. busy popular area. (just said on tv)

[unreadierLizard]

12. Religion of peace, hard at work once more. n/t

[Rhinodawg]

14. No kidding.

Its a shame the Aussie govt were a little slow early on.

[unreadierLizard]

15. It sickens me that people defend Islam, when it calls for

the execution of non believers, the torture and oppression of women, gays, apostates, other Muslims, liberals, conservatives, children, etc.

And is actively practiced by millions of adherents from Mecca to New York.

[Rhinodawg]

16. This holy war cry is a wake-up call

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/this-holy-war-cry-is-a-wakeup-call/story-fni0ffxg-1226962938744

[freshwest]

72. Saw this over an hour ago on TOD. Thanks for the link. I hate wars, this one seems media fed.

That doesn't make it any less real.

[muriel_volestrangler]

110. Do you agree with that writer? (nt)

[2naSalit]

37. Interesting you would

make such claims about one religion while giving all others a pass. I don't think any of the three major religions on the planet are free from wackjobs who latch on to one stanza or phrase in some "holy" text and make a corrupted and alleged sect of whatever religion they stole their sacred words from while forming a new and often bastardized ideology of it.

Just look at our fundies in the US who call themselves christians - but mostly we give them a pass but, you know, they're christians so they get a psych eval... and then there are those folks over in israel...

[PersonNumber503602]

40. I'm pretty sure if far-right christian terrorists took hostages like this

people in general would not give them a pass. Perhaps you can give an example of when that happened.

[herding cats]

51. Dr. Hector Zevallos and his wife, Rosalie Jean.

They were taken hostage by three Army of God members because he was an abortion doctor. It's just the one kidnapping which popped in my head when I read your post. There are many other violent crimes, including murder, which have taken place by zealots of the Christian faith over abortion rights.

Violence in the name of a religion makes no sense to me, so don't think I'm defending one while condemning another. They're all equally wrong in my eyes.

Edit for clarity. They're all equally wrong when they commit violence in the name of their religion. That wasn't clear in my statement above.

[oberliner]

59. Anything more recent than 30 years ago?

That example goes back quite a ways.

[herding cats]

65. You asked for an example, I gave you one.

There are more recent incidents which are much worse, including murders, if you care to look them up. I was just giving you one off the top of my head without doing an internet search.

Admit it, before I mentioned them you didn't know of the incident until you searched for it on the internet. There's more than just the anti-abortion zealots, too. I'm trying to beat up on a faith, I'm just pointing out none of them are immune to insane fringe followers who commit atrocities in the name of their religions. I find it odd when people try and pretend their brand is immune to human nature is all.

Certain people are easily manipulated and given the proper stimulus, especially when it's peppered with pieces of their religious dogma, specific personality types will do things which go against the society they were raised in if they're lead to believe their religion is demanding it of them at the time. Obviously, I'm not speaking of areas of SE Asia, or regions of the ME where religion is politics and as such power. Those are entirely different situations, which require much more discussion and thought than I'm willing to devote to an internet message board, I'm speaking of these isolated outburst, such as what we may be seeing currently in Australia only.

[oberliner]

112. I actually didn't

I believe a different poster asked you that. I was just wondering if there were more recent examples that you could think of.

I know there have been anti-abortion Christian fundamentalists that have done some really terrible things, but I did not remember the particular case you cited.

My own personal view is that religious fervor is a bad thing, regardless of the religion. Though the tenets of the particular religion in question do impact the severity of the problem. Some religions have more of a violent orientation than others (see the Bible and Koran).

[PersonNumber503602]

67. Did they get a pass by people in this country? I'm not saying that Christian extremist don't exist

They might be in far fewer numbers and don't take as extreme of actions as often, but when they do they are not given a pass in the US as was suggested. I don't think I know anyone who would come out in support of abortion bombers in the US, and that even includes some fundie "nut" types who I think are horrible people with horrible hypocritical beliefs.

[Jamastiene]

81. In the mountains of western North Carolina, they even wrote a song in praise of Eric Rudolph.

There was even a local pastor there who left food for and helped Eric Rudolph while he was on the run from the law. There are plenty of them here in America who DO support and defend abortion bombers. I've met far too many. Until you've spent enough time in the Bible Belt to get to know the locals, you might think this country is mostly not batshit crazy with religious zealotry, but you would be mistaken. Here in the Bible Belt, it's pure hell on Earth if you are NOT a right wing fundy. There are many in the Midwest and other states too.

[whathehell]

105. +1000000

[liberalhistorian]

80. It sickens me that people on a progressive

site would lump an entire group composed of hundreds of millions globally, and millions in this country, (including some good friends of mine) into one based on the actions and statements of some radical lunatic fringes who aren't even considered true Muslims by the majority. Kinda like those of us who are Christians do not consider the far RW whackadoos who call for the killing and enslavement of gays, approve the rape of women to show the their place, and want women chained to the kitchen as well as an authoritarian theocratic state to be true Christians representative of the religion as a whole.

[ileus]

99. Most who defend Islam like the idea of an enemy of Christians.

To them these radicals balance out the local Baptist church on the corner.

[2naSalit]

113. Wow

That's quite a stretch... even for a broad generalization there, ileus. Something tells me you probably don't get out from under the TeeVee screen much or have much awareness about the world beyond your dwellings.

My actual, first-hand experiences with Muslims have always been genuinely cordial and respectful from all parties. It appears that much of the "all Muslims are bad cohort" have a very narrow perspective on humans in the 21st century and little knowledge of history (as in most of it in any given decade or century).

Just wow.

[closeupready]

116. Lots of bigots here live in basements, I think, NOT in

real communities, or if so, they are very small, insular communities, lol.

[ileus]

123. I work around and with all faiths M-F

Probably half of my clients in my personal business are muslims. I'll be going by Dr. Iqbals this even actually...this job should net me 750 bucks.

[hrmjustin]

52. No Islam did not do this and to blame it on Islam is wrong.

[lib87]

57. I Agree

[LiberalElite]

98. Sorry to burst your bubble:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014965593

It's a cliche already: "religion of peace" heh heh heh heh


When anti-abortion nuts kill doctors nobody's out there slamming every single Catholic.

[Brigid]

17. Nothing on CNN or MSNBC.

TV or internet.

[KeepItReal]

18. CNN is simply streaming 7 News in Sydney now...and failed

They lost the website stream.

Pitiful.

[Posteritatis]

19. It's the top story (or near it) in pretty much every non-US news agency I can see so far. (nt)

[KeepItReal]

20. CNN is running a show about viral videos now

They don't have anyone in Sydney they can skype or facetime?

CNN is a fraking joke.

[liberalhistorian]

74. There probably aren't

enough missing white women in Sydney to be able to make it worth their while to have someone there. And the missing Malaysian plane isn't there, either, so it's doubly not worth their while.

And they've been a joke ever since the day nearly ten years ago when Iraq erupted in flames from multiple attacks against American military bases and yet they focused intensively all day and night on that stupid "run away bride" story (remember, it was that wealthy white woman who went missing for several days before her wedding and the night before the wedding it was finally discovered that she'd cut and dyed her hair and run away on a bus). It was ALL they focused on, even sending a reporter to accompany her as she flew back to her home and family to face the music. NOTHING was covered on Iraq or anything else. I'd been wavering before that, but that was the day I finally and irrevocably gave up on those idiots.

[KeepItReal]

30. Bloomberg is showing Sydney...CNN is still M.I.A.

CNN loves them some viral videos...and commercials.

[Posteritatis]

34. CNN's fractally-diverse ineptisuck is almost magical sometimes

These days they'll impress me if they can locate Canada on a map, and astonish me when they get the capital correct.

I don't really expect much from them past that other than headaches...

[KeepItReal]

36. CNN International does real news 24/7...just hard to get in USA

When I'm overseas CNN International is pretty respectable. It has to compete with BBC and Sky News, etc.

CNN as a global organization is capable of doing real news, they just choose not to here in the USA.

[IcyPeas]

24. the 2 links I posted above are still live with it.

[Rhinodawg]

21. Islamic State urges Muslims to kill Australian ‘unbelievers’

http://www.news.com.au/national/islamic-state-urges-muslims-to-kill-australian-unbelievers/story-fncynjr2-1227066847053

[freshwest]

124. ISIS encourages everyone to kill. Even themselves if it's for guts and glory.

I listened to the livestream as the situation was resolved. This guy was a murder suspect, a rapist, child abuser, thief, etc. A really extensive background.

As far as him being a Islamic fundy, he was given refuge from Iran for praticing some kind of witchcraft in their eyes and would have been killed by the Islamic Republic of Iran, no doubt. This guy was a loose cannon waiting to go off.

I do fault Australian authorities for letting this guy out on bail!

While ISIS stinks in every possible way, this guy just had illusions of gradeur there, jumping onto their band wagon to scare people. Just like too many do. In the war of public opinion, ISIS has done well with a young, disaffected group, who want to be part of something that is 'Trending' or 'New.' Except it's so old, it's now seen as NEW. The Australians and others who have joined up are nothing more or less than cannon fodder for some vile interests that helpled fund ISIS, such as the real wackjob religionists in SA or UAE or some other hellholes.

As far as the 'religion of peace' thing that is used to mock the Muslims, okay, not too peaceful coming from a number of sects. And it's only because it's going on now that we feel threatened. It went on in our own history. For certain, such groups need to be tamed totally. Or whatever...

But we can shoot the breeze about this whereas those under the thumb of ISIS or other sects, no less than those in Christian Europe in the past, or in other nations around the globe that are or are not theocracies. In such places freedom of speech, religion, how one lives one's life in the most initimate details, all the way to self-censorship of even thought, are not respected as much as in Australia or the USA. Even if we are steadily losing it with the Koch Kingdom busily stealing it from us.

Think about what will happen to our society if we mobilize from the grass roots to the top to get rid of Islam. It won't be good.

ISIS sucks, but this is stochastic terrorism at its weakest, since this guy wasikely taking hostages to escape criminal charges and not out of religious fervor. So I don't think there's going to be WW3 over this event, or any others.

No one is buying that stuff. If Von Braun's alleged revelations that the big wigs would encourage race, religious wars or other forms of reorganizing society hold any water, the next thing to appear will be space aliens!

We as a species need to grow up and not fall for team games. Or we will face mass extinction. I admit to hating the actions of ISIS so very much that if I was in charge, I'd want to annihilate them, take them out of the gene pool, in my darkest moments.

Fortunately, I would be persuaded by wiser and cooler heads than my own if I was at that station in life which I have not achieved. PBO has taken a very nuanced approach to all of this within the confines of his office. Congress can decide if they want to do something about the ISIS movement that is drastic to the threat ISIS continues to be .

Do you really feel so much passion on this issue due to the actions of ISIS against all that are not in the group? They are all criminals who have taken on the mantle of feudal lords. I see them as a Freddy Kruger version of the Koch brothers and their particular brand of death. We're getting to a tipping point in the world and there are some in the world who fully want to go centuries if not millenia back to what they saw as stability or permanency.

[IcyPeas]

22. The CEO of Lindt Cafes said ......

there could be 40 to 50 hostages inside the cafe.

[Rhinodawg]

25. I don't think...

anything good is going to happen.

[IcyPeas]

23. Al jazeera America is also covering it live now

[KeepItReal]

27. Such a hard scenario. Thoughts are with the hostages and their families.

eom

[brooklynite]

28. Live Coverage on Bloomberg, BBC and AJZ

[Matilda]

29. Tony Abbott will be in his element.

This will be a distraction from his lousy poll figures and his shambolic government.

He'll milk it for all he's worth - just watch.

[IcyPeas]

32. he'll be up shortly with a conference per BBC World News

[Rhinodawg]

33. Reports : Lone Gunman...Claims to have planted 4 bombs around Sydney.

Sydney opera house evacuated after finding up identified package.

[PCIntern]

35. We shall see who isn't posting on this thread

Know what I mean Rhinodawg?

[delrem]

41. Then please note that this is my post to the thread!

Please please, don't you and Rhinodawg think something awful about me, like that I'm a terrorist muslim enabler or even worse! I'm not like those ratfinks who aren't posting! Really I'm not!

[lib87]

44. I'm Not Ashamed to Say I laughed Reading Your Post

Ratfink?

[freshwest]

73. They've been on the alert about these bombs and threats for some weeks now.

This sort of thing is so hard to prevent without massive snooping and people don't want that anymore. The horizontal social organization, where people could talk things out among each other, seems to have all but disappeared.

It's all from sources that send their influence down the ranks, or communicate through... IDK, really, anymore. I don't keep up. It's stochastic terrorism, not nation state warfare, no way to identify who the next bad actor is going to be.

That's a real freak out for open societies. I think bad things are going to happen with this, even beyond whatever happends there in Sydney. Because these guys want revenge for ISIS getting bombed in the Middle East most likely.

Or they really do intend to have their world caliphate. A lot of lives would be lost in that kind of one world government. And the Alex Jones crowd worry about the government?

I worry about individual who are indoctrinated in ideologies or whatevers that make it okay to kill en masse. Their 'kill all the non-believers' crap is just despicable.

Perhaps this is being driven by global climate change. People in some countries are so desperate to find living space and civil society is collapsing, just as the Pentagon predicted in that report back in the 1970s it would with world leaders doing the best they can to ready their people for rapid change.

I think we are best equipped for this but I don't know about the Australians. They have a rough climate to begin with, these last few years they've really caught hell with droughts and floods.

Do you feel it's inevitable, PC? And are we doing the right things to stave this off or turn it around?

Hope you will answer, as you have definite ideals on this. But I don't think I've ever gotten an answer from you yet. Anyone that is interested in talking about this is welcome.

[jtuck004]

38. Probably better there than here. We would shoot you to get the bad guys.

Woman Is Taken Hostage By Bank Robbers On High-Speed Chase; Later Killed By Police Who Fire Over 600 Bullets Into The Car...

...
Misty Holt-Singh, 41, had just run into the Stockton, California bank and left her 12-her-old daughter in the car for a quick transaction. In an instant, her life would change as Gilbert Renteria Jr., Jaime Ramos, and Alex Martinez came in to rob the bank. They took Singh hostage and fled in a car. However, the police were quickly on their tail and trapped the car. She may have had a glimmer of hope. After all, there were some 33 police officers surrounding the car. That is when the Stockton police opened up on the car and fired over 600 bullets — killing Holt-Singh, 41, and two of the bank robbers. The family is preparing to sue and saying that the response was excessive and ignored the hostage. Singh was hit 10 times — all from the guns of the police.
...

[link:lternet.org|Here.]

[liberalhistorian]

75. That case will puzzle me to the end.

I could not then, cannot now, and never will be able to figure out WHY the damned police opened up multiple guns on a car where they KNEW the innocent hostage was! And she wasn't even black, either. What utter and complete idiots. They all should have been fired and completely blackballed from any LEO position ever again.

[seveneyes]

39. What God wants

God gets. God help us all....

[brooklynite]

42. Police Update: no contact yet with hostage-takers.

[OrwellwasRight]

55. Oh please.

Are you forgetting the Crusades, the inquisition, witch burnings, and the Jonestown Massacre? But yeah, other than that, Christians are pretty much perfect. Never violent.

Can we stop with the bigotry?

[Nye Bevan]

63. Yep, there are certainly parallels between Islam today,

and what Christianity was like all those hundreds of years ago. I hope that Islam is able to evolve the way that Christianity has.

[Drunken Irishman]

91. Fortunately, Islam is such a young religion. Just give it 2,000 more years to grow up.

[Scootaloo]

77. Whatever it takes for you to feel smug about your bigotry

[Nye Bevan]

100. Not so much "smug", as saddened by violent, backwards barbarism (nt)

[Scootaloo]

102. Whatever you have to tell yourself, man.

[closeupready]

45. And I see we're missing only a handful of DU's bigots,

but I suppose as time wears on, they will all find a chance to pipe up.

[YoungDemCA]

56. +1

[mwrguy]

46. This is really going to fuel islamophobia in Australia now

As bad as it is, it's about to get worse.

[Nye Bevan]

47. Yes, when adherents of a particular religion take a bunch of innocent hostages in a restaurant,

one unfortunate side-effect is that such incidents tend to fuel negative feelings towards the religion in question.

[YoungDemCA]

54. Always can count on you

Whether the subject is misogyny, white privilege, or Islamophobia, you have insightful commentary!

[morningfog]

101. But he was super happy to see the latest pictures of the pure blood prince!

[OrwellwasRight]

58. Funny. When Timothy McVeigh

killed a bunch of people, including children, did that "fuel negative feelings towards the religion in question", i.e., Christianity? Because I don't remember any backlash against Christianity after that. Unless of course, that is how you explain the "war on Christmas."

[Nye Bevan]

60. "Science is my religion" - Timothy McVeigh

Did he ever claim to perpetrate the bombing in the name of Christianity?

[OrwellwasRight]

61. Wait, is your standard now

"in the name of"? Because I thought it was "adherents of". Hmmmm.

[Nye Bevan]

62. Well, when the hostages are forced to raise an Islamic flag,

the distinction is probably lost on them.

[liberalhistorian]

78. Oh, but that was different.

He and Terry Nichols and all the other militia white supremacist nutballs were and are white and Christian, so they're okay, you know? They're white and Christian, so they're real Americans.


Can't believe it would be needed, but just in case.

[Nye Bevan]

103. McVeigh was actually an agnostic who said "science is my religion" (nt)

[OrwellwasRight]

127. I got ya.

No tag needed.

[liberalhistorian]

76. Yes. Let's make an ENTIRE

group composed of hundreds of millions altogether and lump them into one monolithic groupthink entity because of the actions of some lunatic fringe groups among them. Let's treat ALL of them, even women and children, with discriminatory persecution because of the actions of some.

Let's see, what's that called again? Oh, yeah, BIGOTRY.

[Rhinodawg]

93. Let me say for the record...I AM BIGOTED !!

I am bigoted against this guy in Sydney.
I am bigoted against the Canadian attack.
I am bigoted against whats happening in my beloved Sweden that is now a cesspool.
I am bigoted against "beheading"
I am bigoted against acid attacks deforming totally innocent women.
I am bigoted against FGM.
I am bigoted against hanging gay people.
I am bigoted against anti-Semitism.
I am bigoted against the attacks in NY, UK and France.
I am bigoted against ISIS killing untold 10,000s of "non-believers"

I could go on and on...

[Violet_Crumble]

96. If you insist, I'll totally agree with yr subject line...

That's all...

Just curious as to why you didn't say you were bigoted against anti-Muslim folk.

[liberalhistorian]

118. Because they don't count,

seeing as how it's okay in his mind to denigrate hundreds of millions of people and lump them into one if they're not of the "right" persuasion.

[Rhinodawg]

122. Lets play WHEEL OF FORTUNE !!

TRY THIS...


--- -- ---- --- --------- ----

[liberalhistorian]

117. What, pray tell, is happening

in Sweden that is making it such a "cesspool" to you? It's not lily-white and purely Christian anymore? White supremacist groups aren't allowed to peddle their filth anymore? Brown non- Judeo-Christian people are treated equally? What?

And those crimes you mention we're committed by fringe individuals or groups of fringe individuals, NOT an ENTIRE religion. One would think that with your rightful concern about anti-semitism you'd understand the danger of that line of thinking. Or do some people and groups just not count? And does it not matter or count that the platform of the ruling party in Israel openly calls for the "cleansing" of the "vermin" from their midst, meaning Palestinians and Arab Israelis? Gee, where have I heard that kind of rhetoric before? Hmmm, lemme see now................

[Rhinodawg]

121. Fringe...right.

enjoy your beliefs.

I cant help you.

[Matilda]

48. Hard to believe this has been going on for nearly seven hours.

It began around 9.00 a.m., and now it's coming up to 4.00, and the working day is drawing to a close. Most businesses have sent their staff home long ago. Uber were charging $100 to drive people out of the city, but after a storm on social media, they are now doing it for nothing.

There seems to be some thought that the perpetrator is a lone nutter, but nobody really knows. There have been no demands or threats made, as far as I know. I can only imagine the psychological stress of the hostages - sometimes not knowing what it's about can be worse than anything.

And, of course, there's a large crowd of idiots out in the street - looks from photos to be the intersection with George Street – chanting anti-Islamic slogans. So helpful.

[herding cats]

49. possibly three people escaped/were released per The Guardian

It is not clear if the three people - who we believe to be hostages - were freed or escaped from the Lindt cafe. They ran out of a side door where heavily armed police were and hid behind the police.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2014/dec/15/sydney-siege-reports-of-hostage-situation-inside-martin-place-cafe-live

[herding cats]

53. Police confirmed three hostages escaped

Police have confirmed the three people seen running from the Lindt cafe were hostages who are now free.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2014/dec/15/sydney-siege-reports-of-hostage-situation-inside-martin-place-cafe-live

[hrmjustin]

50. My prayers for the victims and the people of Australia.

Violence in the name of religion is evil and must be loudly proclaimed so.

[KeepItReal]

64. UPDATE: A total of 5 people have escaped

3 males (one appears to be a Lindt Cafe worker) and 2 females (they both appear to be Lindt Cafe workers)

Per ABC news Sydney

[Bosonic]

66. Two more hostages escape (5 so far)

UPDATE: Two more hostages can be seen running from a different exit of the #siege, more Lindt workers. #9News

https://twitter.com/9NewsSyd/status/544371320818249729/photo/1

https://vine.co/v/O6lgplBD1Uu

[joelfreak]

68. Overblown...?

Is this scary? Sure it is. But this is NOT another country, or even a large group of people taking an action. This is what appears to be one or maybe a couple nutballs taking hostages, perhaps using religion as a reason. Any posts/articles looking for a 'holy war' or blaming all members of any one religion are just looking to basically incite a riot. Its unfortunate that things like this happen, but the reactionaries are almost scarier than the act itself.

[liberalhistorian]

79. I have the distinct feeling that if the gunmen

were white or Christian, there wouldn't be nearly enough, if any, global attention paid to it.

[brooklynite]

94. You mean like those white nut jobs who shoot up schools?

Nosiree, no coverage there...

[Matilda]

69. I'm wondering whether this siege came about accidentally.

It started when a woman saw a gun in a man's bag and gave the alarm. Did he panic and run into the cafe without thinking? Because it seems most unusual for there to be no demands or threats made after such a long time - if it was planned in advance, there'd be a reason; he'd want something and would have made it clear by now, you'd think.

Just speculating ... it's not following a normal pattern for these things.

[KeepItReal]

70. Possible. They mentioned there are a number of consulates in the area.

eom

[Matilda]

71. Yes - including the U.S. Consulate in King Street.

The gun and the flag indicate that something was planned, but maybe not a siege in a cafe.

[Warpy]

126. The story is that he's Iranian and well known to the cops

Once out of Iran, he converted from Shi'a to Sunni (not that most of us know many of the differences) and labeled himself a cleric without having earned the title.

It's significant that he was unable to con anyone else into assisting him in this operation.

The saddest thing of all is that storming the place ended up with two hostages being killed.

However, it does seem to be the actions of a lone crank, a man with serious mental health issues that were not improved by religion.

[Quantess]

82. Interesting how some DUers don't even seem concerned about the hostages

but instead are busy defending Islam and making excuses for the extremists.

[Violet_Crumble]

83. I agree that there's some who don't seem concerned, but they're not the ones you claim

If you have a problem with people objecting to bigotry aimed at an entire group of people, that's yr problem.

And could you point out where in this thread anyone has made excuses for any extremists? Because no-one's done that.

Feel free to inform me that I don't seem concerned about the hostages or the chaos in Sydney today. And I'll tell you you don't know what yr talking about.

[Quantess]

86. Fair enough. I was not singling out anyone,

and I could also have worded it a little better.

There have been concerns voiced about islamophobia becoming worse after this incident, and also the standard dismissals that boil down to Christians are violent and oppressive too sometimes, meanwhile sidestepping the terror of the actual hostage taking incident.

I wonder how the hostages are feeling right now? I wonder how much they would appreciate knowing that some people are focusing on bigotry instead of the danger they are in.

[joelfreak]

87. They aren't thinking of us...

I honestly don't think they are thinking about us either. This board is meant to discuss things that occur in the world...not to relay messages to them. We all wish this didn't happen, and we all offer them any support we can. That doesn't mean we can't talk about the issues that surround what happened.

[Violet_Crumble]

88. Yes, leaders and the media in Australia are concerned about Muslims being targetted coz of this...

Why? Aren't people supposed to be concerned about that? Surely you don't think that Australians who are concerned about that aren't concerned about the hostages?

Also, the first post that went off at a gallop about Islam and expressed zero concern about the hostages was this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014965225#post12

Pretty disgusting imo

[joelfreak]

89. But then there are AU's doing this...

https://twitter.com/hashtag/illridewithyou?src=hash

Volunteering to help ride with Muslims that may be afraid to travel today.

[Quantess]

90. That's positive. And ironically the muslims who are most likely

to face a backlash are those who are least likely to be dangerous: women in headscarves.

Most muslim men dress as western as they please, and thereby do not stand out from the crowd like the women who are expected to cover their slutty looking hair. So unfair.

[treestar]

108. You did not notice that the first one to do that

in the thread is the one using this to encourage anti-Islam bigotry?

[hrmjustin]

115. Name one DUer not concerned about the hostages.

[Turborama]

84. A SYDNEY court heard details of an alleged terror plot to be carried out in Martin Place

A SYDNEY court heard details of an alleged terror plot to be carried out in Martin Place in the wake of terror raids in Sydney and Melbourne in September this year.

The plot involved abducting a random Australian, executing them by beheading in a public place, possibly Martin Place in Sydney’s CBD, and filming the act and posting it on social media.

More: http://www.news.com.au/national/siege-at-sydneys-lindt-cafe-martin-place-long-identified-as-a-terrorist-target/story-fncynjr2-1227156341960

The original news in September about the "terror raids":

15 detained in Australian counterterrorism raids / raids foil 'beheading plot'

[Violet_Crumble]

85. Update from NSW premier Mike Baird and NSW police

The premier Mike Baird is currently addressing reporters. Baird thanks the police and the community for the response to the events throughout the day.

The premier:



I’m certainly proud of how we have responded as a city, state and a nation – but my thoughts remain with those that are caught in this event. And my call goes out to the state to pray for them, to pray for their families.

Earlier tonight the commissioner and I also had a conference call with the Islamic leaders. They expressed their full confidence and support with what the NSW police are doing, and the commissioner and I thank them for it.

We are in this together.


http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2014/dec/15/sydney-siege-reports-of-hostage-situation-inside-martin-place-cafe-live

[riversedge]

92. Sydney cafe siege: How events unfolded

Suresh Kumar ?@SureshB127 5m5 minutes ago

RT @itvnews: Sydney cafe siege: How events unfolded http://www.itv.com/news/2014-12-15/sydney-cafe-siege-how-events-unfolded/ … #sydneysiege



A hostage runs from the Lindt Chocolate cafe in Martin Place, Sydney Credit: PA






ITV Report
15 December 2014 at 10:30am

Sydney cafe siege: How events unfolded


Police were first called to reports of an incident at the Lindt cafe in Sydney at 9.45am local time (2245 GMT Sunday).

Below is a timeline of the unfolding developments in the siege. All times are relevant to the local time zone, which is 11 hours ahead.



The scene outside the Lindt cafe in Sydney Credit: Reuters

9.45am - Emergency services are called to the Lindt Chocolat Cafe in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. Early reports suggest a possible siege with an unknown number of hostages in the building.

[brooklynite]

95. UPDATE (MSNBC): Police know who gunman is...name not being released.

[ileus]

97. One concealed carrier is all they need.

[hrmjustin]

107. Again for a few here I would like to remind some that Islam itself did not do this but a person

Or persons claiming to be Muslim.


Yes there are legitimate criticism of religion including Islam but lets remember that most who follow the religion of peace are peaceful.

[treestar]

109. +1

[muriel_volestrangler]

111. Man Monis has been named as the Sydney siege gunman

3.07am: The gunmen at the center of the Sydney hostage situation is Man Monis, 49.

He first came to attention of police when he wrote disturbing letters to the family of dead Australian soldiers.

Last year he was charged with being an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife and mother of two.

2.51am:
#BREAKING: Man Monis has been named as the gunman behind the #SydneySiege. #9News pic.twitter.com/NPeQvHs7Pn
— Nine News Australia (@9NewsAUS) December 15, 2014

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/live-updates-muslim-cleric-man-monis-has-been-named-sydney-siege-gunman-6206375

Monis was born Manteghi Bourjerdi and fled from Iran to Australia in 1996 where he changed his name to Man Haron Monis and assuming the title of Sheik Haron.

The self-styled sheik did not enjoy the support of mainstream Muslims, according to community leader Dr Jamal Rifi
...
In October Monis was charged with an extra 40 sexual offences relating to his work as a spiritual healer.

He is currently on bail and due to appear in court over indecent and sexual assault charges in February 2015.
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/12/16/00/48/sydney-hostage-taker-named-as-man-monis

We're talking complete violent nutball here. He's also been a suspect in the murder of his ex-wife. Which is worrying, because so far he hasn't been violent in the cafe; I wondered if he was someone out of his depth who could be talked into surrendering peacefully. That looks less likely with a history like that.

[Matilda]

125. It definitely appears he was a lone nutter.

No excuse, and questions are rightly being asked about why a man facing 40 charges of abuse, including sexual, was out on bail.

Yet that hasn't stopped PM Tony Abbott from making statements that Man Haron Monis had used the symbolism of the ISIL flag, and that Sydney has had "a brush with terrorism". He didn't, and we haven't.

He should be hosing down the fear of Islam, but he needs to justify why his government locks children up in detention camps and breaks the UN conventions on treatment of refugees. He has to protect us all, you see. Even if it means he's likely breeding hate in the hearts of those he's mistreating.

[Bosonic]

114. Australian police storm Sydney cafe -- live television footage

Australian police storm Sydney cafe -- live television footage

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/544512577968287744

[KeepItReal]

119. 4 or 5 casulties on stretchers

ABC News Sydney:

[brooklynite]

120. 2 dead (including gunman); three in critical condition