Congress sends president bill to cut Nazi benefits

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By RICHARD LARDNER

WASHINGTON (AP) — A bill that would block suspected Nazi war criminals from receiving Social Security benefits is heading to President Barack Obama for his signature.

By voice vote late Thursday, the Senate gave final congressional approval to a measure that would shut a loophole that allowed suspected Nazis to be paid millions of dollars in benefits, clearing it for the White House. Under the No Social Security for Nazis Act, benefits would be terminated for Nazi suspects who have lost their American citizenship, a step called denaturalization. U.S. law currently requires a higher threshold — a final order of deportation — before Social Security benefits can be stopped.

The legislation was introduced after an Associated Press investigation published in October revealed that Social Security benefits have been paid to dozens of former Nazis after they were forced out of the United States.

The House unanimously approved the bill on Tuesday on a 420-0 vote.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20141205/us--nazi_social_security-38ce5f72b3.html

[Shrike47]

1. Although I'm sure we all agree, can't they do something that solves a current problem?

[LiberalElite]

56. Here and there over the years media declares

we've found a Nazi living in America! then the furious activity begins to deport them (which they should) Each time I thought it was an "isolated incident" because they were uncovered so infrequently. Now Congress decides to pass a law taking away Social Security for Nazis. This makes me wonder - HOW MANY FUCKING NAZIS (from the WWII era not newbies) ARE IN THIS COUNTRY ANYWAY!

[montex]

2. Fools

Congress is more than happy to waste this nation's time. What's next? A bill to OK letting the sky remain blue?

[packman]

3. Idiots

reminded of the line, "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." One of those things you HAVE to agree is good, but really- are we ever going to know how many ex-Nazis this is going to affect.
When it looks like BS, smells like BS, then you know it's BS.

I can see them all patting themselves on the back and praising this new spirit of bipartisan cooperation.

[cheapdate]

4. Who gives a shit? Useless gesture.

[kickysnana]

5. Once you start denying paid up Social Security insurance it is all in peril of being ripped away.

It is not welfare, it is not an "entitlement". It is a worker financed pension plan.

Stupid, stupid, stupid Democrats. Republicans know what they are doing and they could care less about a couple of former Nazis getting SS benefits, but anything to chip away at this program that works, is on their agenda and the people they gave us to vote for are either too stupid to figure out or are in on it.

[RGinNJ]

6. +1

[jeannemara]

53. Just a correction

Sorry, but this is one of my pet peeves. The phrase is "Couldn't care less," not "could care less."

[Nye Bevan]

7. I'm not a Nazi sympathizer but I disagree with this.

Next up: no Social Security for sex offenders. Then for drug dealers. Then for people with DUIs...... This sets a bad precedent. If you have paid your contributions, you should get your Social Security. If you are a criminal, you should be punished appropriately. But the two are separate issues.

[A Simple Game]

15. Exactly, and for a problem that will fix itself in just a few years.

It's not like many of these suspected Nazi's are less than 90 or so.

The Republicans got an easy win on this precedent setting foolishness. Let's hope they can't add to it like you suggest, but like you I would bet that they try.

They are, as you say, two separate issues, just as Social Security doesn't add to the deficit. Democrats need to start pushing back, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing so.

[nxylas]

20. First they came for the Nazis

Ironic, huh?

[GreatGazoo]

28. "First they came for the Nazis and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Nazi..."

[Orsino]

32. Yes. Dems Godwined into cutting Social Security will lead nowhere good. n/t

[woo me with science]

36. THANK YOU.

If you have paid your contributions, you should get your Social Security. If you are a criminal, you should be punished appropriately. But the two are separate issues.

Spot on. This is a vicious precedent to be setting, and I have no doubt that setting the precedent *is* the purpose of the bill. It is the camel's nose under the tent to steal benefits from any group of law offenders they choose.

And they trust that civically ignorant, PR-manipulated Americans will easily tolerate their claiming this new, ominous power to steal retirement benefits based on criminal record, because....What sort of sick person would oppose punishing a Nazi?

[moriah]

44. As much as I want to protect Social Security, I don't see this being an easily used precedent for...

... such a slippery slope.

Whatever was done would have to be bad enough to lose your citizenship, pretty much, as it depends on the current provisions in the Social Security Act to terminate benefits under INS law. All of these people were deported, fled a deportation order, or renounced US citizenship, and from the provisions listed in the "Intent of Congress" section, lied in order to get into the country in the first place.

The effects for US citizens in other countries if they've somehow obtained dual citizenship and benefits to legal permanent residents are far more likely than it hitting sex offenders, drug dealers, or drunk drivers, the way it's worded. There's a reason the bill's so short.

That's who they'll come for next, if they're actually "coming for the Nazis", if they use this law as a precedent. . I think this one won't be the big precedent-setter if they start really stripping Social Security, though, because the number affected by citizenship concerns is so small.

[Man from Pickens]

8. Only approved Nazis should get benefits

Cheney's government pension will stay intact.

[TeamPooka]

9. key word - 'suspected'. nt

[TygrBright]

10. They spent my tax dollars on this? :eyesroll: n/t

[Recursion]

11. Nope. It's their money.

Can't say I agree with this. If you want some sort of judgment that then 100% garnishes the payment, that would be one thing (and would take a court case).

[olddad56]

12. how do they know who the alleged Nazis are. Or do they just choose people to declare as Nazis.

[Scairp]

13. This sounds like a total waste of time

I should think that any 'nazis' who might have come here are most likely dead and gone, so why the urgency?

[angrychair]

14. Next up

"No food stamps for Stormtroopers Act"

Followed by

"No Medicare for Goa'ulds Act"

[csziggy]

39. But do Goa'uld hosts get Medicare?

That is an important question!

[vlyons]

16. well that's really going to make a BIG BIG difference, isn't it?

prevent those former Nazis from being takers -- all 2 of them -- assuming you can even find them.

My guess is the congressman has a large Jewish constituency. What a joke. Has the GOP's stupidity ever failed to astonish you?

[Behind the Aegis]

19. Great sig line!

[vlyons]

17. and what about current day Nazis?

do they count? probably not because that's who there real base is.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. What?

Who are "modern day Nazis?" Who's THEIR "real base?"

[peacebird]

21. I'm guessing he is referring to the KKK and white supremacists. A lot of them out there

As shown by Cliven Bundy and Ferguson...

[vlyons]

22. there is actually american Nazi party

they dress up on khakis and wear swastika armbands and celebrate Hitler's birthday.

www.americannaziparty.com

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608010972553939225&pid=15.1&P=0

[peacebird]

50. Good grief... I did not know about them.... Total loss for words.

[Enrique]

23. "No Social Security for Nazis Act"

truly they are profiles in courage.

[KinMd]

24. Can't you seethat in their next campaign ad..

"and he stood against Social Security for Nazis"

[David__77]

25. Anyone age 18 in 1945 is now age 86.

If this bill occurred, say, in 1960 or even in 1990, it would be have some significant impact. Now, it strikes me as diversionary and grandstanding.

[jakeXT]

45. Problematic in the 60's

[FiveGoodMen]

26. Setting a precedent

You can be sure there will be a lot more groups added to the list before long.

[procon]

27. More pointless showboating

The AP news story states there were only 38 suspects that kept their Social Security benefits. These fools and idiots in Congress probably spent more money promoting this nonsense than any purported savings.

On the plus side, now maybe we can build on this bipartisan momentum and... oh, wait a minute. Now they'll take a 6 week vacation.

[jwirr]

29. As you see it was a unanamous vote. The Senate and president will have little choice. While I do

not like the idea that Nazi's would get Social Security they apparently worked here and paid into it. I do not know how most of them got here - just all those CIA agents and space workers who we brought over here to work on our own programs. If these are the workers they are talking about it is interesting.

But as I said no one is going to have a choice - they are too afraid to be labeled as Nazi's.

[former9thward]

30. A publicity stunt bill that has no effect.

WW II has been over for 69 years now. Anyone receiving SS benefits who was a Nazi during the war has to be in their early 90s at the least. Since they have been deported they are now in countries where they are being taken care of by the social welfare system in Europe. Meaningless.

[Todays_Illusion]

31. Where is that legislation to raise the minimum wage?

[awoke_in_2003]

33. I hate Social Security Nazis. nt

[Kennah]

34. Breaking News on Fox: Orcs are still able to draw Social Security, and Obama won't act to stop it!

[Kennah]

35. Larry Thomas is gonna be pissed

[Shoonra]

37. Very probably fewer than 200 will be affected

As with WW2 vets, to have been active in the Nazi Party by the time of the war required that individual be at least in his upper-teens. I make this point because some Concentration Camp prisoners were mere children - but the Nazi guards and other villains would have been adults. This means that, like our WW2 vets, wartime Nazis would be at least 90 years old and dying off at a substantial clip. We had already thrown a bunch of them out of the US, so there weren't supposed to be a lot left here, and by now, at the end of 2014, I'd guess fewer than 200 of them in the whole US - and a lot of them don't even remember anymore.

[Kaleva]

38. What bothers me about the bill is that these people are "suspected" of having been Nazis

The reporting on this is rather sloppy IMHO. This is about suspected war criminals and not Nazis in general. Thousands of Nazis immigrated to the US legally, worked, retired here and collected SS benefits. But they didn't commit war crimes and this bill isn't about them.

[bemildred]

40. All bullshit, all the time, that's our Congress, and way too late as usual. nt

[OrwellwasRight]

41. Aren't Republicans risking their Neo Nazi supporters' votes with this bill? nt.

[polynomial]

42. Its the corporate Nazi

Plenty of theorist whale about The Corporate Nazi syndrome, myself included.

Many of us know the hidden history in American politics and the business corporate domain that is still part of our mainstream core of corruption. The Bush family is a prime example hidden by the media.

There are many corporate Nazi Journalist that do not care about a living wage and will squeeze you to death in lies.

The neo Nazi in rather uniquely new ways, rather than cook the American electorate in Auschwitz chambers, screw up the basic air we breathe.

The real crime is the rich one percent during world war two are still doing the Broom Hilde opera in Bugs Bunny Cartoons laughing all the way to the bank while the American electorate march around the golden arches for a living wage.

It’s the hamburger opera of McDonalds or the Pacific Rim imports of reforged off shore steel and cheap everything from Hong Kong that swirls around Walmart’s that pay poor yet in commercials say they are Building America, but profiteering through tax supported giveaways. However the American asking for a living wage is condemned by the media.

Every MBA that supports a capital system like that should lose all their social security and be embarrassed through the new public pillory condemnation here in the Internet because we know the mainstream media will not do it.

[happyslug]

43. I love when Congress pass clearly unconstitutional laws.

First you must understand that under current law (and this has been the law since the 1930s) it is ILLEGAL for anyone to get Social Security if they live outside the US.

Now, under the US Constitution any treaty is the supreme law of the land. The US Supreme Court has ruled that when a US law is in violation of a Treaty the US has signed, the Treaty prevails over the law.

Thus given we have Social Security treaties that covers the countries these "Ex-Nazis" live in, those treaties prevail over this new law just such treaties overrule the general ban on Oversea Social Security payments.

I.e. the US Constitution says this law is unconstitutional as long as there is a treaty saying otherwise.


Side note: The US Supreme Court has also ruled that if the treaty is NOT intended to be a law, but an agreement for both countries to make laws to implement the treaty, and Congress NEVER passes such laws, the terms agreed to in the treaty never became law. This is NOT the case with the various Social Security Treaties the US has with various nations.

Since the 1930s the US has entered into various Social Security Treaties with various countries and under the terms of those treaties, people who earned Social Security in the US, are entitled to such Social Security in those countries. These treaties overruled the general ban on payment of Social Security overseas. This new law does NOT change any of those treaties and thus unconstitutional for it is an attempt to overrule a Treaty.

The Social Security Administration (SSA) will treat this new law just like the General ban on payment of Social Security overseas, as a violation of those Social Security treaties and thus a dead letter. No Court will have to order such payments for SSA will NOT stop the payments. It is a meaningless law.

[joshcryer]

47. The law changes the qualification for SS benefits.

Not where they get them.

It's like disqualifying criminals in jail from getting payments.

[Kaleva]

48. But those in jail have been convicted of a crime.

I don't see the legality of denying benefits to those suspected of committing a crime or crimes.

[joshcryer]

49. They got citizenship by lying.

Fraud. Lying about who they were, where they were from.

The US wasn't exactly giving out citizenship to Nazi SS...

[Scootaloo]

51. So this will apply to all immigrants from Germany after 1945?

'Cause you were either a member of the Nazi party, or you were in for a bad time...

[JI7]

59. it says war criminals. not just being in the party

[madville]

52. What about Japanese soldiers from WWII?

They killed, raped and tortured tens of millions during WWII. Surely some made it over here and got citizenship, are they going after the Japanese as well?

If not, would the Nazis be able to sue under equal protection or something?

(I really don't care either way, first thought that popped in my head though)

[JI7]

60. I think they are doing this because they found some individuals

Who were getting benefits.

If they find similar with others they may do it to prevent them from getting it also

[jeannemara]

54. Wording of bill

One of my problems with is that the wording says "suspected." NOT known, but suspected. NOT a good precedent at all!

[Kelvin Mace]

55. I am guessing we just spent

$2-$3 million to save the country $100,000.

[Kaleva]

57. This might affect about 4 people

"There are at least four living beneficiaries. "

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/97f4f581d4a7485e9878075021c49b43/expelled-nazis-paid-millions-social-security

[steve2470]

58. Hello, 1945 calling, it wants its legislation back! nt