Pope says assisted suicide is a "sin against God"

[Old Nick]

Source: CBS News

CBS/AP November 15, 2014, 11:33 AM

VATICAN CITY -- Pope Francis has denounced the right to die movement, saying it's a "false sense of compassion" to consider euthanasia as an act of dignity when in fact it's a sin against God and creation.

Francis made the comments Saturday to the Association of Italian Catholic Doctors.

Earlier this month, the Vatican's top bioethics official condemned as "reprehensible" the assisted suicide of an American woman, Brittany Maynard, who was suffering terminal brain cancer and said she wanted to die with dignity.

Maynard said in an interview with CBS News' Jan Crawford in mid-October that her decision should not be considered suicide.

"No. Cancer is ending my life," not suicide, she said. "I'm choosing to end it a little sooner and in a lot less pain and suffering."

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-says-assisted-suicide-is-a-sin-against-god/

---

I wonder if he'd make an exception for Benedict? 'course, technically, that wouldn't be assisted suicide, but rather coercive suicide. (Hey, they don't fuck around in Rome!)

[polichick]

1. Who died and made him God?

[jalan48]

39. Phuck the Pope

[larkrake]

2. he's an A hole

[darkangel218]

36. Youre just being nice.

[SheilaT]

3. Isn't extending life by extraordinary means

likewise a sin against God?

[Downwinder]

16. How about replacing parts? Or any medaling with the temple of God.

[melm00se]

29. ask and you get an answer

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-churchs-view-on-organ-transplants

[melm00se]

21. it depends

A person may forgo extraordinary or disproportionate means of preserving life.
Disproportionate means are those that in the patient’s judgment do not offer a reasonable hope of
benefit or entail an excessive burden, or impose excessive expense on the family or the
community.

Source

[SheilaT]

55. And of course in the end it's all a highly personal

decision, one that outsiders have not business interfering in. As is birth control, abortion, and lots of other things that are of no concern to anyone else but those involved.

If someone else wants to survive in agony, or in a persistent vegetative state, that's their decision. I don't want that to happen to me. And no one, least of all someone who has never experienced such things, has any right to lecture me on. Or try to force me to do things I consider completely wrong.

[RussBLib]

4. Riiiight.

We know how much God seems to enjoy our suffering.

We really need to jettison these archaic ideas. They are a big impediment to progress.

[Tom_Foolery]

5. God suffers from a bad case of schadenfreude. n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Between this pope... who believes in devils and exorcists... and Socrates, I'll take Socrates.

To say it's a "sin against god" is itself a "sin against reason."

[arcane1]

7. And dying in agony is a thing of beauty, right?

[Humanist_Activist]

17. According to Catholic beliefs, yes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemptive_suffering

Sick, isn't it?

[arcane1]

20. "It's Jesus kissing you" as Mother Theresa would say.

[darkangel218]

35. You betcha. nt

[Downwinder]

8. Not a concern.

[Live and Learn]

9. I like this pope. He has done some good things.

But, he is dead (pun intended) wrong on this issue (and a few others).

[giftedgirl77]

11. Who gives a rats ass what this old man with outdated

views derived from a book of fairy tales says or feels. Fuck him & his sorry ass church. Why the hell is this shit in LBN & not in the religion section anyways? The last time we had pope hype it all turned out to be bullshit anyways.

[Duval]

42. :( You might want to

rewrite your post to show a little respect and acceptance of those who do not share your beliefs.

[onwardsand upwards]

56. Why should we show respect to an institution that murdered and tortured for centuries?

If the Catholic Church wants our respect, then it should repudiate all that it was during the dark ages, and eliminate the reverent art and references to the popes, cardinals, and bishops that were in charge at the time.

Then it should repudiate all that it was while the clergy was sexually assaulting children, and the hierarchy was covering it up. Eliminate the reverent art and references to the popes, cardinals, and bishops that were in charge at that time.

It needs to be reborn if it is to be forgiven for its sins. Then, and only then, could it be eligible for any respect.

But it would have to earn any respect that it would get.

Refraining from calling mercy a "sin" would be a start.

[skepticscott]

65. Your Carholic Church might want to rethink their policies

to show a little respect and acceptance for those who don't share their beliefs, instead of trying to ram THEIR doctrine down everyone else's throat, and force non-Catholics to adhere to the sick dictates that their god-concept whispers in their ear.

The RCC deserves no respect or deference on this issue, as long as they try to make civil laws that affect me conform to their misbegotten doctrine. If they want to tell their own flock that they'll suffer far worse in hell if they don't submit to god's planned suffering on earth, fine...anyone who listens deserves what they get. But keep your bloody doctrine away from MY life, MY rights and MY personal decisions.

[whatthehey]

74. Did the Pope show similar respect in telling people

who want a dignified non-agonizing death they are using "false compassion" and going against the purported express desire of a perfect universal constant (not that this desire has actually been expressed)?

I'm not sure speaking on behalf of a silent deity is all that respectful in the first place. Telling people such deity disagrees with them is certainly not at all so. It's simply an infinite extension of a schoolboy's "my dad can beat up your dad" taunt.

[Hoppy]

12. We are supposed to offer up our pain and suffering

As a sacrifice to God. That means God was in some way deficient. But wasn't God 'supposed to be perfect before my sacrifice?

[sakabatou]

13. So, he thinks people should suffer from illness?

[GoCubsGo]

26. No. He thinks his god wants people to suffer from illness.

Because there's no better way to show that you love your "children" unconditionally, as they claim he does, than making them endure unspeakable suffering from some godawful terminal illness or injury.

[Arugula Latte]

50. If we've learned anything from the Bible it's that Yahweh is one giant asshole.

[GoCubsGo]

51. I couldn't agree more. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

14. Consistent with being anti-abortion and anti-death penalty.

The Catholic Church's view has always been that only God put you here, and only God can take you out.

[freshwest]

61. I can see that rationale. But not the 'sin against God.' God doesn't need us to 'behave' for Him.

As He is alleged to be omnipotent, but chooses to let people choose to do bad or good, there's little reason to think that a Supreme Being worries Himself, Herself, Itself or Theirselves about the result of an individual acting on Free Will. Choosing when you are going to die is no skin off God's nose.

I understand the 'slippery slope' idea, as well, that if one gives up on staying alive, it may give others leave to encourage one to get rid of themselves for their convenience, and not for one's own reasons. There are valid concerns about ethanasia being abused, that is, when someone can get wealth through another's death. Give 'em a shove into the grave.

Or where I think the Pope is coming from, it the idea that there is some kind of Eternal Penalty for not respectin one's own life as much as he thinks one should. Or it makes the taking of a life of little import, when it should be a matter approached only if necessary to save a life.

Tomorrow, maybe, gotta go.

[KMOD]

15. It's a difficult issue for many

People should absolutely be able to reject it for themselves if they are against it. But it absolutely should be an option for those who don't share his objections. I believe it is not suicide, if you are already dying.

[nomorenomore08]

72. +100

All of this.

[grandpamike1]

18. Is it possible

That if you participated in an assisted suicide for the reason of wanting to meet God and retiring to the Kingdom Of Heaven a little sooner, then would that disqualify you ?

[fredamae]

19. No, no it's not

to have the courage and understanding to assist those who are suffering in ways most can't imagine, ease their suffering before the inevitable? To me, it's about compassion and empathy and acceptance.
How can this be a sin when this compassionate act is without malice?

[Shoulders of Giants]

22. And why is it any of God's Business

If God is going through the horrible experiences that cause someone to do have to make these decisions, then he can have an opinion. Until then, God needs to mind his own business. He seems to mess everything up when he stick his nose in places it doesn't belong.

[Vattel]

23. It is compassionate and it respects the autonomy of the dying.

God, who one can assume is not fetishistic about survival, must be in favor of it.

[cheapdate]

24. Bullshit. "God" would not demand that people die prolonged, suffering deaths.

[still_one]

31. Not a God of love

[cheapdate]

69. True, but we were talking about a specific vision of God,

the Pope's God, who (as the Pope believes) would rather people die slow, lingering deaths than end their lives with assisted suicide.

[still_one]

71. I am referring to what Christians profess that their religion is one of love. we are on the same

page. Needless suffering inhuman

[Exultant Democracy]

81. Why not? If you are referencing the god of Abraham the books about him beg to differ.

Unless you think drowning in a massive flood is quick and painless.

If the christian faith is true then the Pope is most certainly correct in his assessment, the dude is infallible after all when it comes to matter of the faith.

[cheapdate]

85. Yeah, you're probably right.

I forget that the Hebrew thunder-God is petty and cruel when He's feeling puckish.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

25. Well

he can't get 'em all right..............

[Jamastiene]

27. I'm glad I'm not Catholic.

I would hate to have some asshole always telling me what is right or wrong in God's eyes.

[Warpy]

28. Once in a while the Mediaeval death cult surfaces

and this is one of those times, along with the idea that women are completely dispensable units that must be sacrificed to a fetus within them even if that fetus is going to die, too.

I've seen what end stage astrocytoma does to people and I don't blame Maynard for wanting to avoid it. I do blame every pious shithead out there who wanted her and others to wring every bit of misery out of life before they leave it.

I hope they all have heart surgery and are cared for by Nurse Tylenol.

[still_one]

30. The church also believes that a suicide is condemned to hell, so much for

Compassion to the family left behind or even the suicide victim

In their view God has no probleming a child molester but has a problem forgiving a suicide

Convienient disconnect I would say

[LiberalElite]

32. I was raised Catholic -

and I was taught that suicide is a "mortal sin" and as such if you kill yourself, you're going to Hell. I always thought that God was cruel to do that. If a person is suffering enough to want to kill themselves, then in addition they're going to be burning in Hell forever? Just one of the things I couldn't accept about that religion, which I left years ago.

[Duval]

41. This is also one of the reasons my

husband left the Catholic Church.

[truthisfreedom]

33. Can't have them checking out when they can still be bilked!

Such an unholy racket.

[darkangel218]

34. Screw the Pope.

And his god.

[blkmusclmachine]

37. Because even the Pope doesn't trust God to "have his back"...

[blkmusclmachine]

38. Pic @ https://apostchristiannation.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/free-poster-od25z5uyub-popemobile.jpg

Comments are my own.

[Duval]

40. Well, this is the first

time I totally disagree with Pope Francis. My husband, who was raised in the Catholic religion, said that this is "Catholic policy", that only God has the right to end a life. IMO, God forgives those who chose to end their lives for excellent reasons. If I were in Brittany's former condition, I would do exactly what she did. It is not only the patient who suffers, it is also family and friends. I have heard many friends say of loved ones who have died," at least he/she is not suffering anymore". I hope this does not offend anyone. That is not my intent.

[Eridenus]

44. So I'm supposed to believe in some invisible sky being

that has done nothing for me or anyone who are truly suffering.

God does not even exist, only from what's written by man.

Religion has always been dangerous, especially when SCROTUS has six Catholic judges.

[heaven05]

45. so you say

meaningless if you're in pain that can't be managed before God takes person out of here. Like religion how and when to end ones life, whether naturally or 'assisted', is a personal choice. If I get something terminal, I have already decided my choice. No religion can dictate my choices or walk in my shoes.

[onehandle]

46. The most Progressive Pope in our lifetime has a thing about life.

No duh.

He's more socially conscious than ANY American President in our lifetime.

Any.

So let him differ on us on this particular soapbox.

He's still more liberal than most elected Democrats.

[Arugula Latte]

48. Oh, really, he's so progressive, huh? So when will he give women equal power in the church, grant

them autonomy over their own bodies, and acknowledge that homosexuality is an innate trait one is born with? ... I'm waiting with bated breath for all that.

The Vatican is an evil, corrupt, misogynistic, and homophobic racket that has literally raped and plundered for centuries. May it turn to slime mold on the dust heap of history.

[skepticscott]

66. Are you serious?

This pope thinks that homosexuals are inherently disorderd. He argues that they should not enjoy the full human rights that heterosexuals do. He tries to put a warm fuzzy face on his bigotry, helped by a well-funded Vatican PR machine, but the fact remains that if he posted his views on DU, he'd be PPR'd in the first hundred posts. He's about as far from a "progressive" as you could imagine, given how much gushing there is over him on this site.

[Arugula Latte]

47. Ehh, piss off, Francis. Leave people alone.

Why do so many of these religious zealot types get off on suffering? The whole Jesus death cult is pretty sicko, when you think about it.

Bleah. Fucking religion.

[GeorgeGist]

49. Frankly, Frank ...

I don't give a damn.

[YOHABLO]

52. You see we're not here to have good time on this earth .. we're here to suffer. Get it Catholics?

OY VEY

[SamKnause]

53. The Pope says.

Oh for the days that NO ONE will care what the Pope has to say or any other religious leader.

Dying with dignity is not a sin.

Torturing a dying person with excruciating pain is a sin.

Maybe since the Pope has the ear of "God" he could discuss "God's" vengeance against his own creations.

[KMOD]

54. How about we leave it up to the individual?

This is not a right or wrong debate.

The Pope can have his view, and Sally, Dick and Jane can have their views.

You can impose your view when it involves yourself. Until then, stay out of other peoples personal decisions.

I disagree with the Pope. He disagrees with me. That's it.

[onwardsand upwards]

57. Because, when the Pope says something is a sin ...

... millions of people around the world listen to him, and act accordingly.

That's a tremendous responsibility and any Pope should think very carefully before slinging around the sin thing. It hurts millions!

He's old enough to know better ...

[KMOD]

58. I disagree

He's just setting guidelines for Catholic believers. And yet, many catholic followers believe in the right to choose (abortion), believe in birth control, and believe in this issue. It's not a cult.

Most people aren't blind. I trust people to make decisions that affect them, alone. Not based on what the Pope says.

And anyway, if they are so influenced by the Pope, so what? It doesn't affect you. It doesn't change your belief or decision. And you also should not be forcing your opinion or belief on them.

[Live and Learn]

60. +1 nt

[skepticscott]

67. Horseshit. What is it with Catholic apologists on this site?

Why do they keep repeating the transparently false meme that Catholic Church policies ONLY affect practicing Catholics? If that were actually true, there would be no problem, but it's not. The RCC regularly tries to impose their doctrine on EVERYONE, by lobbying for laws enshrining Catholic doctrine and by pressuring Catholic legislators to support these efforts.

[onwardsand upwards]

73. Indeed!!

[SoapBox]

59. Butt out, Popey.

It's none of your bees-wax.

[Helen Borg]

62. He should try being

In a condition that results in uncontrollable pain.

[n2doc]

63. More Pain! More Suffering! Gawd wants this!

So much for that 'loving' Gawd…

"Dear God"

, hope you got the letter, and...
I pray you can make it better down here.
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer
but all the people that you made in your image, see
them starving on their feet 'cause they don't get
enough to eat from God, I can't believe in you

Dear God, sorry to disturb you, but... I feel that I should be heard
loud and clear. We all need a big reduction in amount of tears
and all the people that you made in your image, see them fighting
in the street 'cause they can't make opinions meet about God,
I can't believe in you

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue? Did you make
mankind after we made you? And the devil too!

, don't know if you noticed, but... your name is on
a lot of quotes in this book, and us crazy humans wrote it, you
should take a look, and all the people that you made in your
image still believing that junk is true. Well I know it ain't, and
so do you, dear God, I can't believe in I don't believe in

I won't believe in heaven and hell. No saints, no sinners, no
devil as well. No pearly gates, no thorny crown. You're always
letting us humans down. The wars you bring, the babes you
drown. Those lost at sea and never found, and it's the same the
whole world 'round. The hurt I see helps to compound that
Father, Son and Holy Ghost is just somebody's unholy hoax,
and if you're up there you'd perceive that my heart's here upon
my sleeve. If there's one thing I don't believe in

it's you….

-XTC

[Feral Child]

64. Because he's an unsympathetic Prick.

[LiberalFighter]

68. Sin against God and creation?

More like God sinning against mankind.

[Reter]

70. Every Religion has always tought that it's a sin against God

Not sure why this is news, but hopefully it will deter some from committing suicide.

Edit: Forget my reply. I didn't see the word "assisted" in the title. I thought he was referring to regular suicide being a sin.

[whatthehey]

75. Hamartiologically speaking, why do you draw a distinction?

If you don't live in OR, and use a nitrogen bag instead of Rx pills, why is it more appropriate to deter it?

[RKP5637]

76. WHAT A BUNCH OF F'EN SHIT!!! n/t

[phil89]

77. Just adding more pain to a tragic

situation. Can't believe people support this institution.

[hollowdweller]

78. Is the pope a catholic?

Then that view is not suprising.

[Maedhros]

79. It's OK for the Pope to make this assertion to his flock.

It's consistent with Catholic teaching.

However, we who are not Catholics are free to disagree, and Catholics who disagree are free to leave the church.

[Exultant Democracy]

82. Unless their religion is real, in which case leaving the Church puts their souls at grave risk.

[Maedhros]

84. Part of their religion is the belief that the Pope is infallible.

I see no problem with devout Catholics following the instruction of their Pope and not availing themselves of Death With Dignity laws. it's up to the individual to determine if their objection to the Pope's decrees are strong enough to cause them to abandon their faith.

It's when they start dictating their faith to the rest of us that a problem arises.

[Prophet 451]

80. And I respectfully disagree

On some things, I think this Pope is on the right lines (emphasizing economic and social justice). On other things, such as same-sex marriage or this, I think he's flat wrong.

[Exultant Democracy]

83. If the god of Abraham is real, he is most certainly correct in his assessment.

I've read about four different versions of the bible and it doesn't really mince words when it comes to suicide.

Like many people who have read the bible it also all strikes me as bullshit. However if this religion wasn't a plot by the Romans to revitalize religion in the empire as a tool for control, then this is the Pope I would trust my soul to.