Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:42 PM
Typical NYC Lib (182 posts)
Tulsa Shootings Suspects Confess
The two men accused of going on a shooting spree in a predominantly black neighborhood of Tulsa, Okla. have confessed, according to police document given to the Associated Press.
Jake England, 19, confessed to shooting three people and Alvin Watts, 32, confessed to shooting two, according to the documents.
Authorities had previously said that they expected to charge the pair with first-degree murder, shooting with the intent to kill, and possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony. Their bail was set at $9.16 million each on Monday.
The shooting spree killed Dannaer Fields, 49; Bobby Clark, 54; and William Allen, 31; and wounded David Hall, 46, and Deon Tucker, 44, according to the Tulsa World. The two wounded in the shooting have been treated and released from separate hospitals. The victims are all believed to be random targets who happened to be walking near the gunmen.
Read more: http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/04/08/tulsa_shootings_two_white_men_arrested_in_shootings_that_terrorized_black_community.html
Turns out the guy who killed England's father won't be charged with murder, as the shooting was ruled a justifiable homicide under Oklahoma's "Stand Your Ground" law!
7 replies, 1679 views
Tulsa Shootings Suspects Confess (Original post)
|Typical NYC Lib||Apr 2012||OP|
|Atypical Liberal||Apr 2012||#1|
Response to Typical NYC Lib (Original post)
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 01:05 PM
Atypical Liberal (5,412 posts)
1. Carl England assaulted Jefferson
"Damien Neal, the boyfriend of Carl England's daughter, told police the argument began after Neal caught Jefferson attempting to break into his apartment. Neal said he called Carl England after Jefferson left to get a gun.
When Carl England and Neal found Jefferson, Neal said in the account, Carl England struck him with a stick. He said Jefferson responded by shooting Carl England in the chest."
Now it is true that Jefferson was attempting to break into an apartment, and it is also true that Jefferson could not legally own a firearm as he had a disqualifying felony. He was charged with both of those crimes.
But, since England attacked him with a stick, he was legally justified in using deadly force to defend himself.
Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #1)
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:00 PM
Yo_Mama (5,352 posts)
5. Jefferson is in jail already for charges stemming from the shooting
And he's up for another trial on the attempted burglary charges.
But the apparent fact here is that England called another guy and then the two of them went after Jefferson, and Jefferson was assaulted with a club, and shot England when Jefferson was down on the ground.
That is self-defense. You are going to have a hard time convicting any one on charges in that circumstance. What were Jefferson's alternatives at that point?
So yeah, he's a bad guy, but the law doesn't allow private citizens to beat bad guys up, and maybe to death, does it? Is any jury going to convict Jefferson of murder or manslaughter for that? You can't even prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Jefferson intended to shoot him - he might have just meant to pull out the gun and fired accidentally. It sounds like the prosecution charged him with pointing a weapon and maybe he pled to that, but you are not going to be able to convict someone of a homicide in those circumstance.
That's not even SYG. Stand your ground is about negating the duty to retreat in certain circumstances. There's always a right of self-defense when you are facing several people who have already attacked you and you are already down.
There is justifiable homicide in every state, and there always was (although the law didn't always protect blacks who killed whites in self-defense, or Hispanics who killed whites in self-defense).
If I were on a jury I couldn't convict Jefferson of anything like murder or manslaughter for that, and I wouldn't want to shake the hand of anyone who did!
Private citizens just don't have the right to attack people - even bad guys. That's what lynchings used to be all about.
Response to Obamacare (Reply #2)
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 01:57 PM
DisgustipatedinCA (7,918 posts)
4. I do recall that over the weekend, while they were still seeking suspects...
...the police spokesman said that they were investigating it as a possible hate crime, but that all options were still on the table, etc. I haven't heard anything else in that vein since then.
Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #4)
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:46 PM
rainbow4321 (9,254 posts)
7. Tulsa officials brought that up this weekend
Tulsa officials mentioned this weekend that they would have gone for the federal hate crime charges if that was the only way to up the punishment..but given that there were three murders and OK has the death penalty, they can't up it anymore than it will be already with state charges.
I saw on The Tulsa World that their combined bail amount is like $18 million--each given around $9 mil bail amount.
Response to Typical NYC Lib (Original post)
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:01 PM
Iliyah (4,700 posts)
6. So do they have the stand your ground
law, ie self defense rule in OK?
Seems like this stand your ground law is a complete poison bill. That said, vengeance killings of people is a torrible way of letting out frustrations with the law. Educated oneself and working in the system to over turn this bs law is the right way to go. Thats why I commend Color of Change. They are working within the system regarding Alec one of the main groups who sponsor horrible legislation thru paid for politicans.