HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Military Board Says Marin...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:55 AM

Military Board Says Marine Who Criticized President Obama Should Be Dismissed

Source: NYT

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) A Marine who criticized President Barack Obama on his Facebook page has committed misconduct and should be dismissed, a military board recommended late Thursday.

The Marine Corps administrative board made the decision after a daylong hearing at Camp Pendleton for Sgt. Gary Stein.

The board also recommended that Stein be given an other-then-honorable discharge. That would mean Stein would lose his benefits and would not be allowed on any military base.

The board's recommendations go to a general who will either accept or deny them. If the general disagrees with the board, the case could go to the secretary of the Navy.

Stein's lawyers argued that the 9-year Marine, whose service was to end in four months, was expressing his personal views and exercising his First Amendment rights.

"We're truly surprised and disappointed but it was an honor to fight for a hero like Sgt. Stein and every other Marine's right to speak freely," Stein's defense attorney Marine Capt. Jame Baehr said."
</snip>

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/04/06/business/ap-us-marine-free-speech.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

49 replies, 6172 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply Military Board Says Marine Who Criticized President Obama Should Be Dismissed (Original post)
Cooley Hurd Apr 2012 OP
SteveABG Apr 2012 #1
BadtotheboneBob May 2012 #49
Lasher Apr 2012 #2
leftynyc Apr 2012 #3
Typical NYC Lib Apr 2012 #41
Namvet67 Apr 2012 #14
Sgent Apr 2012 #25
Corgigal Apr 2012 #4
trusty elf Apr 2012 #5
davidpdx Apr 2012 #18
jmowreader Apr 2012 #43
trusty elf Apr 2012 #44
Scuba Apr 2012 #6
magical thyme Apr 2012 #10
Scuba Apr 2012 #16
jeff47 Apr 2012 #20
Scuba Apr 2012 #21
sorefeet Apr 2012 #7
Cobalt Violet Apr 2012 #8
Schulz Apr 2012 #9
tonybgood Apr 2012 #15
PavePusher Apr 2012 #37
tonybgood Apr 2012 #46
PavePusher Apr 2012 #47
tonybgood May 2012 #48
jeff47 Apr 2012 #22
leftynyc Apr 2012 #23
NutmegYankee Apr 2012 #26
iemitsu Apr 2012 #27
NutmegYankee Apr 2012 #29
mista411 Apr 2012 #33
frylock Apr 2012 #35
MD20 Apr 2012 #11
JoePhilly Apr 2012 #24
iemitsu Apr 2012 #28
frylock Apr 2012 #36
Namvet67 Apr 2012 #12
MD20 Apr 2012 #13
groundloop Apr 2012 #30
Dan Apr 2012 #39
modrepub Apr 2012 #17
BeyondGeography Apr 2012 #19
marshall gaines Apr 2012 #31
qb Apr 2012 #32
HopeHoops Apr 2012 #34
tabasco Apr 2012 #38
Rhiannon12866 Apr 2012 #40
Liber-AL Apr 2012 #42
MADem Apr 2012 #45

Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 03:17 AM

1. Foregone conclusion

Don't want to respect the chain of command, don't join the military.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SteveABG (Reply #1)

Tue May 1, 2012, 02:24 PM

49. Exactly... That's the deal...

... You just can't do that. I was in when Nixon was POTUS and he was not well liked by the troops. But, we knew to keep our mouths shut. The day he resigned there was much joy and relief around Brooke Army Medical Center, I'm tellin' ya.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 03:19 AM

2. Nine years and he's just an E-5?

Last edited Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:04 PM - Edit history (1)

What a loser, I made it that far in less than 2 years.

Edit to clarify: I was offered E-5 after having served about 18 months. I turned it down. I just wanted to get the hell out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lasher (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:26 AM

3. And his lawyer is calling him a hero

For what!! He broke the military code of conduct and that makes him a hero? This has nothing to do with free speech and it's an insult to the constitution to say it does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftynyc (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 05:53 AM

41. Everyone's a hero these days

 

Most overused (and abused) word in the dictionary.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lasher (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:03 AM

14. hahahahaha.....great point!!!!

I got to E-4 in 13 months......but E-5 in 9 years.....hahahahaha

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lasher (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 10:40 AM

25. I think a lot of that depends on service / MOS

no question an E-5 after 9 years is pretty bad, but I know (for instance) that infantry marines tend to move up very slowly -- at least a few years ago. Most ust make corporal after a 4 year enlistment, with a few meritorious (outside normal channels) promotions to sergeant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:35 AM

4. other-then-honorable discharge

Oh, that's going to hurt. This veteran says yes he should and I served under Reagan and never disrespected the Commander in Chief. The voting booth was my only say, it's what you accept when you join the military.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Corgigal (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:47 AM

5. other- "then"-honorable?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trusty elf (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:26 AM

18. The one I hate is

whether or that. It sounds funny coming from someone who is a doctoral student. Damn grammar!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trusty elf (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 08:53 PM

43. It is the very worst discharge you can get without being court-martialed first

It is the administrative version of the Bad Conduct Discharge, which has to be awarded as part of the sentence of a "BCD Special" Court Martial.

The discharge is rarely used because if you're a big enough fuckup to merit an OTH discharge, you did something bad enough that you'd be found guilty at a BCD Special or a General court-martial.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jmowreader (Reply #43)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 04:46 AM

44. Thanks, I figured it was not too good.

I was just trying to point out the seemingly unnoticed typo "then", which should read "than".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:37 AM

6. Weird. When the "First Shirt" saw my "Asshole Nixon" pic in the barracks, he just laughed....

... of course he knew Nixon was an asshole too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:53 AM

10. not military, so clueless, but maybe what's in your barracks

and what's out on facebook are 2 different things?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to magical thyme (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:13 AM

16. Well, there was no facebook in 1970, but OK. Of course this was the days of the draft ....

.... and if everyone who criticized the Prez (and war) were drummed out, there would have been a lot fewer grunts. Heck, it would have become the "section 8" of its day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:41 AM

20. His statements were a little more problematic than calling the president an asshole

An internal meterologists forum:
As an active-duty Marine, I have sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Obama is the economic enemy, the religious enemy, the domestic enemy.


Facebook:
I say screw Obama. I will not follow orders given by him to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:45 AM

21. Yep, that's way different.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:54 AM

7. Thats what ya get

when they have Rush on AFR. They are just obeying the propaganda.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:30 AM

8. I knew I shouldn't have looked at this facebook page.

Armed Forces Tea Party =

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:44 AM

9. Wrong action

This is democrazy

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Schulz (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:07 AM

15. You have no understanding of the military!

When you enlist in the military, you give up your rights under the Constitution and submit yourself to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. There is no democracy in the military!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tonybgood (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:50 PM

37. Sigh.

 

Please bury that false meme.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PavePusher (Reply #37)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:41 AM

46. Which false meme do you refer?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tonybgood (Reply #46)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:08 PM

47. This:

 

When you enlist in the military, you give up your rights under the Constitution...


Not true. You still have Constitutional Rights, but they become more limited.


...and submit yourself to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.


This is true.


There is no democracy in the military!


Not true. You still get to vote and participate in government. You are part of the chain of command with authority (and responsibility) increasing with time, experience and rank. In effect, your vote becomes proportional to your investment. You have input at all levels.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PavePusher (Reply #47)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:13 AM

48. Not what I was told at the time of indoctrination.

The class in basic training said specifically that you suspend your rights under the Constitution and agree to be governed by the UCMJ. As to the democracy in the military, I'm referring to the idea that you "vote" on your leaders and the orders you will obey. Your commanding officer (in your unit) is appointed, not elected. Only the civilian chain-of-command is elected.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Schulz (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:47 AM

22. If he had only said he disliked Obama, then you've got a case.

He didn't. On Facebook, he declared he would not follow any orders from Obama. When caught, he "clarified" his statement claiming he only meant unlawful orders - which doesn't make much sense since he's not supposed to obey unlawful orders anyway. There's no need to announce it.

However, that wasn't the only place he was spouting off. He was a meteorologist, and on an internal DoD meteorologists forum:
As an active-duty Marine, I have sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Obama is the economic enemy, the religious enemy, the domestic enemy.


That's going over the line, around the world and back over the line a second time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Schulz (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:08 AM

23. Really? In which company

that you've worked at or have heard of anyone working at that you get to trash the boss and keep your job? You don't like the head of your company you either leave or keeping your yap shut. Free speech my ass.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Schulz (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 10:49 AM

26. No. Military service places restrictions on speech as part of the contract.

Order and discipline are vital to a military unit, and you are forbidden to disparage superior officers in your chain of command. This guy knew the rules, and broke them willingly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:03 AM

27. plus he put his complaints

in writing. if he had just said these things to other marines he would not be in this hot water.
proclaiming his positions in writing is what will clinch his removal from the marines.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iemitsu (Reply #27)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:10 AM

29. Indeed.

Many soldiers have made offhanded remarks that were not acted upon after a short scolding or were brushed off as frustration with the current task, but this guy both wrote it down and went way overboard in his remarks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:48 AM

33. He Was Asking for It

If that is the case, he is getting what he asked for. He was insubordinate and disrespected his commander-in-chief, XO, CO and all the above. http://yurconnected.blogspot.com

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Schulz (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:45 PM

35. you want a guy in your unit that sez he will disobey orders?!

no fucking thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:54 AM

11. Aww don't worry about STEIN!

 

He will probably get his own show on Fox News and/or get a job with Blackwater as a hired mecenary. I'm not sure if a less than honorable discharge would prohibit a military contractor from hiring him. Its a shame but good ol' boys like Stein always have a way out. GRRRR!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MD20 (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 10:16 AM

24. He'll be co-hosting with Ollie North.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MD20 (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:04 AM

28. he'll probably be hired

by the stanford, florida police department.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MD20 (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:47 PM

36. they'll kick him to the curb once he's outlasted his usefullness

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:59 AM

12. Shitcan him.......next question?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:03 AM

13. Oh, yeah,about that Captain that agreed with Stein...

 

Stein has a right to counsel but I wonder what officer in his right mind would defend such a breech of military discipline. Marine Capt James Baehr's statement is an indictment in and of itself. Now that his mindset is known to parallel that of Stein, I doubt if too many promotions will be coming his way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MD20 (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:20 AM

30. Not only agrred, but nearly put him on a pedestal


".... it was an honor to fight for a hero like Sgt. Stein and every other Marine's right to speak freely," Stein's defense attorney Marine Capt. Jame Baehr said."

A "hero", really? Granted, Stein had the right to a lawyer to defend him - but it sounds like he got a cheer-leading section as well.

After reading just the headline I thought "oh no, the military is trampling on some poor soldier". But after reading what Stein wrote it's pretty obvious that he went way over the line. You just can't come out and say that you're going to refuse to follow orders, not in the military or in any other place of employment. If I'd have written that about my companies CEO I'd be out on my ass in a heartbeat. And if anyone in the company had defended that me in such glowing terms they'd be out on their ass as well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MD20 (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:17 PM

39. when assigned to act as counsel,

it is the duty of the person assigned to act in the best interest 'consistent with military law' to defend said offender. His comments were not harmful, Stein might have been a good soldier, but his actions were not consistent with military discipline and expectations. His legal attorney, the Captain, said nor did anything wrong. If he had failed to act in the best manner in attempting to defend the soldier then he would have been subject to military discipline. My thoughts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:13 AM

17. Just like those who opposed Bush

Wonder when the right will get tired of him and dump him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:28 AM

19. Jackass

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:25 AM

31. next

 

he'll be in the northwest soon preparing for armageddon...race war

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:39 AM

32. The dumbass obviously didn't pay attention during training.

The two most clear directives I recall from my military service:
1. Do as you're told.
2. Respect your superiors.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:21 PM

34. To be fair, the shrub was known as the CIC - "Chimp in Charge".

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:41 PM

38. Pack your shit

dirtbag.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:46 PM

40. Isn't this a case of insubordination?

That's a firing offense on most jobs and this was an egregious and disrespectful insult to this Marine's Commander in Chief...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 06:27 AM

42. Goodbye PVT STEIN...

 

I guess those SGT stripes are history!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 03:11 PM

45. Update--He's been shown the door!

He's getting a richly deserved OTH on his 214, too. Serves the idiot right--I could see giving a little education to a nitwit in boot camp, but this guy had no excuse for his stupidity.

The judge pointed out Stein's March 1 comments on a Facebook page used by Marine Corps meteorologists in which the sergeant stated, "Screw Obama and I will not follow all orders from him."

The judge's ruling reaffirmed a military hearing earlier this month in which a military board has recommended Stein's dismissal. In that hearing, the government submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on the "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," the prosecutor said.

The military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticism of the commander in chief.

Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0425/Marine-discharged-for-slamming-Obama-on-Facebook

Pop, grab the butter, the toast is done...!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread