Britain 'Deplores' Israel Decision To Claim West Bank Land
Source: REUTERS
September 2, 2014 - 2:19AM
The British government said on Monday it deplored an Israeli decision to appropriate a large swathe of land inside the occupied West Bank, saying the move would seriously damage Israel's international reputation.
On Sunday, Israel announced the appropriation of land in the Etzion Jewish settlement bloc near Bethlehem, a move which an anti-settlement group said was the biggest such claim in 30 years.
"The UK deplores the Israeli government's expropriation of 988 acres of land around the settlement of Etzion," British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said in a statement which echoed US calls to reverse the decision.
Contentious settlement ... Children climb on a slide at a playground in a Jewish settlement in the Etzion settlement bloc, near Bethlehem.
"This is a particularly ill-judged decision that comes at a time when the priority must be to build on the ceasefire in Gaza. It will do serious damage to Israel's standing in the international community."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/britain-deplores-israel-decision-to-claim-west-bank-land-20140902-10b7cg.html
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Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)This man is pushing the envelop and threatening the stability of the entire region. If there is an opposition party, they need to call for a vote of no confidence.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)step with Israeli voters. Any replacement would be no better.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Very sad!
Unvanguard
(4,588 posts)There is weariness of the continual series of Gaza conflagrations and endless settlement expansion is not something most Israeli voters are enthusiastically committed to. Might be room for an opening--though admittedly pessimism is a pretty safe bet for this conflict.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)That's a joke, right?
Have you looked around "the region" lately?
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Stability of the region was a poor choice of words. However, Israel can no longer treat the Palestinians like shit and expect the world to you just put with it. You've seen respected politicians in Ireland and Great Britain say ENOUGH! Maybe I should have said Israel is deliberately provoking even more hostility from the Arab world with its "we don't give a fuck about the Palestinian settlements or what the rest of the world thinks of our actions" mentality. Remember how Egypt and Jordan have ended hostilities with Israel? If Netanyhu keeps these arrogant provocations going, maybe the more nations will start to change their position. The man is a real prick and its sad so many Israelis go along with his immoral actions.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)
iandhr
(6,852 posts)
NCjack
(10,279 posts)Israel's land grab.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)If you are surprised, open up your minds a little and just read the history of Palestine since the British dumped the Jews in the middle of their land. This has been going on since 1947...and we are STILL surprised? Get real.
Bibi couldn't care less what the rest of the world says...even the puppet US government. The world's biggest problem today is having stuck the Jews in the middle of Palestine, and GIVING THEM POWER over the Palestinians. Brutal oppressors. What goes around, comes around. One day, some nation or some body of power is going to smite them down, and smite them down hard. I would only say, "they have it coming!"
Meanwhile, all the fox-nonsense viewers will be "appalled" at the brutality laid on the Jewish state. They deserve every bit of revenge the Palestinians and the rest of the Middle East can hand them.
I'm not Jewish, I'm not Middle Eastern...I honestly am not aligned with anyone on the other side of the world. But I know the history, and I've seen and read much more than I care to ever try to convey to anyone. Just do the simplest of research. The Zionists are as awful and treacherous as any Putin ever dreamed of being.
The Palestinians are the present day Jews from Europe in the 30's and 40's.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"...since the British dumped the Jews in the middle of their land."
"The Zionists are as awful and treacherous as any Putin ever dreamed of being."
"They deserve every bit of revenge the Palestinians and the rest of the Middle East can hand them. "
I am always amazed by the things people actually honestly believe.
Hestia
(3,818 posts)country then, it wasn't Israel) after WWII. Yes, it is follows the Jewish line but the books are mostly fair and accurate.
Do you remember the movie Exodus, when the Jewish people were trying to break the blockades around Palestine that the British had set up to keep the Jewish people out (not unlike the blockades today trying to get goods to the Palestinian people) and it became a major diplomatic row?
Do you remember when the Jewish people (Ben Gurion specifically) were going around and bombing buildings to get the British out of Palestine, not unlike terrorist bombers of today?
Remember when the British did to Palestine what they did in India/Pakistan - just put an arbitrary line down the middle of the country/Tel Aviv, leaving in the thick of it all?
I am not saying the person you quoted is 100% correct and can certainly be reworded a tad less hyperbolic, but there is a history of the Jewish people when they immigrated to Palestine and it isn't pretty. It isn't taught in school and you have to search it out. Suppression...maybe, but history is always rewritten by the victors...
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That's not what is happening to the Palestinians.
Calling Zionists "awful and treacherous" - saying "they deserve every bit of revenge.." etc.
You have no problem with any of that?
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Why is it that some people can NEVER admit or concede that Israeli actions are EVER wrong?
Hulk
(6,699 posts)...and if not, it's often because they have been brain washed to see the Jews as victims, and righteous in their suppression of the Palestinians.
It's too bad we couldn't have just given them a big swath of Texas and avoided the whole ugly mess we have today. Caution...that was humor...nothing more.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)Pray tell how that has ANYTHING to do with how they are to be permitted to invade Palestine and treat the Palestinians in a similar manner.
No, it isn't the same. Yes, is it unjust, horrific and barbaric. Sorry mate, but they ARE what I stated previously...awful and deserving of much revenge.
I have no problem with it, except you would think a people that has been persecuted as they have would have some sort of conscience and compassion for another race of people. That makes it all the worse.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)Ignorance can be bliss too, so I hear.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)I am not surprised at the nonsense spouted any longer.
Hate to break up a solid Jew-hate-fest, but the first part of a "quiet title" suit is proving you own the land in the first place. The local Arabs who are complaining are not the owners. They do not have title. They just claim they "own" it.
Well, I guess I own the Brooklyn Bridge because I said I own it.
Of course, in reality, claiming ownership does not make it so.
In fact, if you read past the headline, you will discover that the land in question (which is basically open scrub land) was purchased from voluntary private owners at market value the better part of 100 years ago as part of a massive purchase from the absentee landlords off in what-is-now-Turkey. The purchasers donated to the government and peoples of Israel.
The local Arabs refused to accept the purchase because they don't accept that land can be bought by Jewish people. The Israeli government didn't want to fight about it, just like they didn't want to fight about the Jewish homes stolen in a the 1929 pogrom that created "Arab East Jerusalem" because the Arabs came in and killed/expelled the Jews that had been living there for the better part of 2,500 years.
But, hey, no one needs to get in the way of a good Jew-hate-fest, so ignore the facts everyone.
(And no, this post is not directed at any particular poster here; I assume most people are working with incomplete information, as the news articles are woefully incomplete --- by design.)
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)As you said, the news articles about this are incomplete. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that Israel is annexing this land, not just allowing Israelis to settle there.
If that's so, then that is unacceptable. Suppose I were to sell 1000 acres of my own land in Alaska to Russia. Then suppose Russia claimed that 1000 acres as part of Russia. Would Russia's declaration conform to international norms?
Again, please correct me if I'm reading this wrong.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)I agree with you on the Russia/Alaska scenario. But this is not that case.
Here is something closer:
Lets say there is an island that was in dispute between the USA and Alaska (there probably is; don't know). Anyway, reasonable minds differ about national ownership.
Next, let's say the island is 100% owned by a private person whose title goes back before Russian and USA claims (as is the case here, private land title goes back to owners in Turkey).
A buyer from said undisputed owner donates the land to the State of Alaska 100 years ago. Nobody but the random seal lives there, so it's not like there is adverse possession claim going on and no one really cares.
So, now you have land owned by Alaska, but it is disputed about which country can exercise sovereignty, but and no person cares because its a barren island.
Such is the case here --- you have land in a disputed area of sovereignty, but whose title is undisputedly owned by the Nation of Israel. No one lives there. No one farms there. Just desert. Pretty reasonable to me for Israel to claim the land.
Now, people can have different opinions about how the sovereignty issue ends up, but to accuse Israel of doing something horrid here is not reasonable.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 3, 2014, 09:17 AM - Edit history (1)
*I just looked at the home page of the original linked site (Rense) and it did have some weird stuff. I'll change that link
http://www.whatwouldgandhido.net/zionistquotes.html
*1948 "What is necessary is cruel and strong reactions. We need precision in time, place, and casualties. If we know the family, we must strike mercilessly, women and children included. Otherwise, the reaction is inefficient. At the place of action, there is no need to distinguish between guilty and innocent." January, 1948 David Ben-Gurion diary entry. As the first Israeli Prime Minister, he is quoted as having said at some point: "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.
*1938: “Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home....But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart....” M.K. Gandhi, November 1938
*1969: "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I don't blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, .The Arab villages are not there either. Nahal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibat; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kfar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al Shuman. There is not one single place that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan's address to the Technion, Haifa (as Quoted in Haaretz, April 4, 1969).
Imagine this being said about any other group that isn't Arab, Muslim, or brown
Imagine this being done to any other group that isn't Arab, Muslim, or brown
Your post doesn't help your side. The Palestinians have a right to refuse the foreign Israelis from settling on land they have lived for centuries and longer.
Nobody has a right to treat anybody like Israel has so badly treated the Palestinians for so long, even if they are Arabs. Arabs have a a right to be treated as human beings as everyone else in this world. That anti-Arab brain-washing in this country needs to stop.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)"The Palestinians have a right to refuse the foreign Israelis from settling on land they have lived for centuries and longer."
Well, if that was true, maybe, but your post assumes at least three facts that are false:
1. The "Palestinians" in this particular case are Arabs from Egypt and Syria who largely immigrated during the mid-1800s because the Zionists offered them jobs.
2. The Israelis are no more "foreign" to Judea than the Arabs. I suppose the Canaanites and Hittites and Amorites would be the "natives."
3. The 1,000 acres in question in unoccupied and not lived on by anyone.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Ancient history has nothing to do with anything. Israel has no right to seize Palestinian land. It belongs to the Palestinians.
There were many Palestinians existing in Palestine before the Zionists arrived to chase them off. Are you familiar with the Nakba? Clearly you are a fundie, racist denier.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)"Clearly you are a fundie, racist denier."
As a Jewish guy who spent most of his adult life as a lawyer for the DNC, I have to say this is the very first time I've ever been called a "fundie."
"There were many Palestinians existing in Palestine before the Zionists arrived to chase them off."
Kind of. There were certainly Arabs (generally Bedouins) , Jews, and Druze living in Judea (which is the part we are talking about) for many years. But the Arab immigration to the area at issue was largely drawn by jobs given to them by Zionists. (The Bedouins are generally citizens of Israel.)
But to say "Zionist arrived to chase them off" is the worst kind of lie. There are many Arab citizens in Israel now. Indeed, 1/5 Israelis is Arab. They have the same exact rights as Israelis, get free education, generally voluntarily serve in the Israeli military (Muslim Arabs are not subject to the draft, but Christian Arabs have demanded to be subject to the draft, as do the Druze). In fact, Israeli Arabs have the highest education levels, life expectancy,income, etc., in the entire Muslim world. They enjoy freedoms in Israel they would not have in other countries, like freedom of religion (or freedom from religion), free speech, gay rights, economic opportunity, and all sorts of things.
"Are you familiar with the Nakba?"
Yes, it's what racist Arabs call the founding of Israel. Briefly, when Israel was founded, many Arabs in the territory did not want to be fellow citizens with Jewish people. They liked their Jews as second class citizens. Surrounding Muslim nations agreed and told racist Arabs to move and they would wipe the Jews out. The fledgling Jewish state begged the Arabs to stay and be part of the great experiment that was to become Israel, but many Arabs refused and left or participated in the attack.
The descendants of this sub-set of racist Arabs continue to refuse to live in peace with Jews and want to invade and kill all the Jews, so Israel wisely walled them off.
As has Jordan and Eqypt, by the way, because the racist subset of Arabs are completely nuts.
For some reason, Jordan and Eqypt get a pass on walling off the nuts.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Do you actually believe all of that nonsense?
The Zionists ethnically cleansed the majority of Arabs (80%) from what is now Israel. That is an established historic fact. Your denial doesn't change that fact. And that's a major part of this conflict: the expelled Palestinians want to return to their homes.
This is from an Israeli Zionist, Benny Morris, who approves of Israel's actions to create Israel as a "Jewish State": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris
A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our convoys and our settlements were fired on.
Morris also said that Israel was justified in uprooting the Palestinian 'fifth column' after the Arabs attacked the infant state, and that proportion should be employed when considering the "small war crimes" committed by Israel in 1948:
You have to put things in proportion. These are small war crimes. All told, if we take all the massacres and all the executions of 1948, we come to about 800 who were killed. In comparison to the massacres that were perpetrated in Bosnia, that's peanuts. In comparison to the massacres the Russians perpetrated against the Germans at Stalingrad, that's chicken feed. When you take into account that there was a bloody civil war here and that we lost an entire 1 percent of the population, you find that we behaved very well.
Common sense would tell anyone that cares about human rights that one cannot establish a state for one group of people that has a large population of people that don't belong to that group. Would you accept the US being established as a White-Christian state? Would you just leave without a fuss if the White Christians expelled you for being the wrong kind of person? Would anyone that supports the US as a White-Christian nation be allowed to post on a liberal site, like DU?
How Israel treats the second class citizens in what is now Israel is of no consequence on the Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
Most of the Palestinians left because the Arab leaders told them to, that's a fact.
Secondly, Benny morris has admitted to engaging in historical revisionism and has repudiated some of his early work.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)I like posts like that to stand. It shows where the intolerance is.
Plus, it made all the my bridge group at the Chabad Shul* laugh when I told them I was recently called a "fundie" for daring to "speak truth to power," as it is.
* No I am not a Chabadnick. My buddy is, though, and that's where the card action is!
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Israel destroys a dairy factory in Hebron in illegally occupied West Bank, costing the owners $2 million. Israel also destroyed a number of Palestinian homes:
http://www.maannews.net/Eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=724813
"Services the Charitable Society offers to orphans in the Hebron district will be badly affected," al-Bakri said.
"The buildings were demolished after 45 days were given to the residents to apply for a building permit. After this wasn't completed, it was decided to enforce the existing demolition orders on these buildings."
Israel rarely grants construction permits to Palestinians in the West Bank, and regularly demolishes structures built without permits.
Israel has demolished 359 Palestinian structures in the West Bank so far in 2014, according to the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions.
Some 27,000 Palestinian homes and structures have been demolished by Israel since it occupied the West Bank in 1967.
Only a fascist can support this.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Proudly posted on DU ?
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)This is unacceptable.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Rense ?
This is where you get your information and post here on DU?
Seen what Mr Rense says about Gays?
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)They had a link to well-known Zionist quotes that I linked to.
King_David
(14,851 posts)As you can get .
Strange that it should be linked to by anyone on DU but also revealing I guess.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)There is a bizarre link between fringe right and fringe left with joint Jew-hatred.
Ron Paul comes to mind, with his weird appeal to both fringes.
Hitler seized on this when he took over the socialist parties in Germany.
We Democrats used to do a lot better job than the Republicans at weeding them out; apparently winning elections is too important to alienate the fringe now.
LeftishBrit
(41,203 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 5, 2014, 12:07 AM - Edit history (2)
Would you say the same if America - and UK- were 'smitten down', after all we have done to Iraq in particular?
ETA: do you seriously think that the Israel/Palestine issue is 'the world's biggest problem today'? A big problem, certainly; but there are worse horrors in Congo, Sudan, other war-torn areas, and less dramatically but as horribly and more persistently, the deaths of millions of children every year as a result of poverty, malnutrition and preventable disease.
KJG52
(70 posts)What ridiculous posturing and flagrant lack of action will follow from the US, we deplore the actions of the State of Israel more often than we applaud them, yet they are our most valuable allies in the Middle East. It is incredible...
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Cameron: "Well, nothing really, old chap".
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What would you do if you were in his shoes?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)He should start by recalling his ambassador from Israel.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Not sure what that accomplishes.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)What does the U.S. do with regard to other countries in such circumstances?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)sus453
(164 posts)Yes, Britain and the US (Israel's benefactors) will deplore the new settlements in public, but what will they actually do about it? Anything? Does anyone think they care? Is anyone surprised at this? What did they do or say about the bombing of Gaza?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Not sure what you mean by that and what you would like to see them do in this case.
elias49
(4,259 posts)Seems like a lot at first, but land is scarce.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)that Israel wants all of Palestine. All events indicate that intention.
Then let us assume that Israel really gets all of Palestine.
What will happen to the Palestinians? What will Israel do with the Palestinians?
A state of apartheit?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That's the only way forward.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The two-state solution is the Norwegian Blue of mideast politics - its plumage is certainly lovely, but it's passed on. The plan is no more. it has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. it's pushing up daisies. its metabolic processes are now history. It's off the twig, it's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. It is an ex-plan.
And just because every time Israel reminds us of this fact by carving off another side of Palestine for itself, some hurpty-derp comes along and nails the "two-state plan" back onto its perch, does not mean that the plan is actually alive. It just means that you're engaging in willful blindness with intent to mislead others.
Israel is never going to allow an Arab state west of the Jordan. it was never going to either. We keep seeing constant evidence of this pile up. You want two states? Fine. Lay out a plan to bend Israel's arm until the issue is forced and secured. Because really, that's the only prospect for it now, if that's what you really want. Otherwise there will only be one state - a violent, repressive, nominally "Jewish" state. This is the trajectory Israel is on, the course set by Israeli voters, and the Palestinians have no ability whatsoever to stop it.
You want to turn it around? Fluttering around sprinkling two-state plan pixie dust isn't going to cut it. The train needs to be derailed.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)cpwm17
(3,829 posts)The Stranger
(11,297 posts)What happens to the Palestinians under Netanyahu and Israel's one-state solution.
booley
(3,855 posts)It may not help that this was done in the West Bank where Fatah runs things.
It would give credence to Hamas among Palestinians.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)
Palestinian Bedouins sit near their belongings in Jabaa after Israeli
bulldozers destroy their homes on Sept. 2, 2014
http://www.maannews.net/Eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=724813
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Wouldn't it be something if Jordan 'gifts' a couple hundred miles to the Pals, in exchange for a permanent end of the endless settlement wars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement#mediaviewer/File:West_Bank_Dec_2012.jpg
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)As has the 2-state solution.
The Palestinians would have a their own state for 50+ years if they swore off genocide; apparently that's too much to ask.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Have you looked at the map? little bitty pieces of land, full of decades of 'concessions.'
This issue is over about 600 acres. There are 640 acres in a square mile.
LeftishBrit
(41,203 posts)What a disgusting, dangerous thing to do. Argh.
