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ellisonz

(27,709 posts)
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 12:55 PM Mar 2012

China mounts online crackdown amid political crisis

Source: LA Times

By David Pierson

March 31, 2012, 3:31 a.m.
Reporting from Beijing—

China launched an Internet crackdown Friday amid its worst political crisis in decades, shuttering more than a dozen websites, limiting access to the country's largest micro-blog providers and arresting six people for spreading rumors about a coup attempt in Beijing.

The measures represent the strongest attempt yet to quash speculation that the nation’s top leadership is wracked by infighting after the ouster of Bo Xilai, the controversial Communist Party chief of mega-city Chongqing.

The official New China News Agency quoted a spokesman for the State Internet Information Office as saying authorities were punishing 16 websites and six individuals for "fabricating or disseminating online rumors" about "military vehicles entering Beijing and something wrong going on in Beijing."

Sina Corp. and Tencent Holdings Ltd., providers of China's wildly popular Twitter-like services, said they were halting users' ability to comment on posts until Tuesday morning to "clean up" what they described as "harmful messages."


Read more: http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tech-china-web-crackdown-20120321,0,1057755.story

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China mounts online crackdown amid political crisis (Original Post) ellisonz Mar 2012 OP
I bet there are some in the GOP who wish they could do the same here... WCGreen Mar 2012 #1
They salivate when they hear stories like this. DCBob Mar 2012 #5
Coming soon to a United States ISP near you! n/t Earth_First Mar 2012 #2
A few comments... ellisonz Mar 2012 #3
ellisonz Diclotican Mar 2012 #4
I agree completely that the PRC today is far less unified... ellisonz Mar 2012 #7
ellisonz Diclotican Apr 2012 #8
I wonder if some of this was triggered by fears of a slowing economy and housing crisis. DCBob Mar 2012 #6
DCBob Diclotican Apr 2012 #9

ellisonz

(27,709 posts)
3. A few comments...
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 02:33 PM
Mar 2012

1. The recent scandal concerning Bo Xilai, his deputy, and the national leadership show that the political superstructure of the PRC knows that it is very open to an internal coup.

2. They are especially worried about a particular faction being able through social media to rapidly mobilize in favor of a faction at the local and provincial levels.

3. Revolution in the PRC won't come from the internet but it will be amplified and infused by its openness to the propagandizing.

From the Wall Street Journal:



Chongqing Model Up For Grabs As Party Boss Bo Exits
Simon Montlake, Forbes Staff
3/15/2012 @ 6:41AM

Elite political purges are increasingly rare in China. The last high-level scalp was a Shanghai party chief ousted for corruption in 2006. Now it’s the turn of Bo Xilai, party secretary of mega-municipality Chongqing and a contender for a top slot in the leadership later this year. No longer: Bo is out of a job. Worse may follow. Chen Liangyu, the disgraced Shanghai cadre, was later sentenced to 18 years in jail. No charges have been laid against Bo, and Thursday’s official news reports didn’t give details of why he’d stepped down. But the proximate cause appears clear, or as clear as an internecine political struggle in China can be. Last month, Wang Lijun the former police chief of Chongqing spent a night at a US consulate, before being taken into custody by central government officials. He’s now under investigation. What he shared with US officials almost certainly relates to Bo, who had just demoted him. Attention quickly turned to Bo’s barnstorming rule in Chongqing, which was marked by anti-mafia crackdowns, appeals to Communist nostalgia, and a dose of populism. His days were clearly numbered. Premier Wen Jiabao said Wednesday in an annual press conference that Chongqing’s leaders should “reflect seriously” on the Wang Lijun affair. He also warned against the excesses of the Cultural Revolution, which was taken by many as a swipe at Bo’s “red culture” campaign.

Now Bo’s signature initiatives in Chongqing may be used to hang him, metaphorically speaking. While his crackdown on organised crime was popular among ordinary city folk, some businessmen complained that their legal rights were trampled in the process. The Financial Times last week told the terrifying tale of one wealthy tycoon who alleged torture by army units that stood to profit from his downfall. Others confessed publicly to their crimes and some were later sentenced to death. Lawyers who tried to defend clients in court found that they risked being singled out as troublemakers. Above all of this stood Bo, the populist leader and rabble rouser who promised to put the working man first. That he’s the son of a storied party leader only added to the potency of his rise.

More: http://www.forbes.com/sites/simonmontlake/2012/03/15/chongqing-model-up-for-grabs-as-party-boss-bo-exits/

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
4. ellisonz
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 04:07 PM
Mar 2012

ellisonz

What is happening in China today - and have happened in China the last couple of years now, is rather interesting.. It tell a story about a China far more fractured than they want to show for the world. It show a government who is discover that some, want a different road for China to travel.

It also show, that "old times" under Mao, have some resonance with many people, as some of them, who are now under house arrest, and who is accused on trying to make a coup to take the power in China can play the MAO card, and win sympathies for it. Even though I doubt that most Chinese born after 1976, wil go back to a China who was isolated, and poor..

The consequences about this all, could be many. One is maybe a hard crack-down of dissent, that be true social media, as internet, and by force with other means in the city's

It could also end in the Communist Party looking down the abbeys of a growing resentment from the countryside, and the interior of China, who have not yet experienced the full force of the new modern China and who have not experienced the new form of wealth who are been made possible in the costal areas of China for more than 30 year now...

And, in the absolutely worse case scenario it could end in some form of political "civil war" where groups inside the communist party is using infighting to either make the governance of the whole of China far more difficult, or maybe even impossible, as parts of China is tearing apart from Beijing.. That have happened before in the long history of China..

It doesn’t help either, that Bo Xilai one of the premier accused of wanting to make a coup on Beijing, have innsuled the out going president and most of the higher echelons of the communist party of beeing like some of the late dynasties where the last emperors was more like a shadow, rather than emperors with powers.. The Chinese leadership is always keen on protecting their own history for the future - and be told that they are like some of the last emperors of long lost dynasties are not welcome... It is important to know, that in China, it is important to be known as good leaders.. Like in the old times, it was important to be known as "good emperors" it is today, important to be known as "good leaders" of the country.. And in many cases the absolutely leadership in China, rule the country, not that far away from the old emperors - even though the Chinese leadership doesn’t have any absolutely ruler, who rule for life.. That Experience they got under Mao, and it looks like China dosen't want to repeat that again anytime soon.. Even though the Chinese president, have a lot of power, and say in most cases in China, the leaderships is not as it as, when Mao was alive..

Another case, is that Bo Xilai, also have had the support of the PLA, who also is an important instrument and powerhouse in the Chinese political world.. The great generals of the PLA have a fair share of power, and even though they do have been known to be conservative in their use of force. It is not always known, if they want to choose to support the legal government in Beijing. And it is rumored that some generals, who are holdover from the old ages, is not happy with the pace China is opening up to the world... And they also want a fare more aggressive foreign policy, specially against the US, who many sees as the most important "enemy" for making China a Great nation



http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NC29Ad02.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NC27Ad04.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NC23Ad01.html

Diclotican

ellisonz

(27,709 posts)
7. I agree completely that the PRC today is far less unified...
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 10:55 PM
Mar 2012

...than they would like to present. It is divided along class, regional, social, political, religious and ethnic lines.

The current leadership is much more molded by Deng Xiaopeng than Mao who is fast becoming a perfunctory afterthought in terms of making national policy, although lip service is given. I think a fair assessment is that the PRC is no longer a Communist totalitarian state but simply a totalitarian state. It has become a kleptocracy and so the very idea of a good leader holds a lot of power.

Bo Xilai was a big fish and they are worried that like during the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 the death of a high-ranking reformer will spawn general unrest.

I think one way to look at this is the hardliners (no change) vs. conservatives (some change) vs. the moderates (significant change), with the moderates being the most dynamic political force. Bo Xilai who don't want to democratize fully but did want some significant change even if it could be kind of wandering.

I do not expect sudden change but rather a game of musical chairs in which the leading factions one by one are forced out of influence creating a power vacuum. What takes the place of the current order is thus the real question and that Chongqing model was attractive because it seemed like a comfy middle ground.

Someone had it in for Bo Xilai and my money is on Xi Jinping, who is very much a conservative.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
8. ellisonz
Sun Apr 1, 2012, 09:19 AM
Apr 2012

ellisonz

True, the shaddow of Tieamen Square protests of the 1989, is still in the backbones of the current chinese leadership, they lost almost their head when the students was standing their ground, for mounts for reforms of the political system, but also to make reform in the school system, and to fight the corruption who already then was rather rampant in China.. I was still a rather young kid when that happened, 5 grade, but I still remember both the stand still - and then the news about how the government and China, had bussed in "loyal troops" to crush the student revolt, in time for the Soviet leader Gorbatsjov to make a visit to the Chinese capital.. He never seen the student revolt, even though I’m pretty sure he was able to know what happened, from his own intelligence services who had, and have operatives inside China today...

China is today, more like a totalitarian state rather than a communist state. If they had been a communist state still, I guess the wealth would have been more in the hands of the many, rather than in the hand of the few - with connections to the Chinese leadership... The result of this, is that China is rather divided, by class, regional social political - ethnical and religious lines as you point out.. And this is never a good thing, when you have that many fault lines in a country.. China is a country, who traditionally have had fault lines, but where the leaderships is absolutely, and where the "peasants" know their stand in the world.. This is not the case anymore.. the "peasants" know, today that they have a voice, who they are starting to use in a way I suspect the current leadership is just not used to experience.. Deng Xiaopeng was a rather autoritanl leader, who could and did, brutal things to make dissents go away.. The problem is that the current leadership is maybe not in full control over their own country.. AAtimes have pointed out that even inside the high leadership of the PLA it is dissent to where to go, as the old, mighty generals have their share of interest to make the country stable - but many wish for the days when the word of the general was absolutely, and where the rest, when ordered to jump, asked how high they wished to jump.. And Bo-Xiali was also good at using neo-mao images, where songs, symbols, and the regular tradition going back to the Mao years was shown for the people.. The Chinese leadership have never really wanted to make a break with the Mao years. Mostly because the legimacy of the Communist Party could end up in the grind wagon.. And the chinese leadership know, that their POWER come from the communist party.. And the support of the PLA with its weapon.. And I also guess, many civilian leaders, is afraid of the old, mighty generals in the PLA, who could turn their weapon against them.... That is always a danger, when you give the Generals to much power I guess... They Can bite the hand who feed you...




China need more reforms, not just at the economical sector, but also in many other sectors, where the old guard still have much of the power, and where the conservative ideals are paramount still.. As long as China prosper, and the economy is ballooning it is far more easy to control it all, but when the economy are not the motor longer - and China could not sell their goods cheap to the world, then what?.. After 2008 when the rest of the world, almost got to a stand still, the Chinese leadership discovered the ugly underbelly of capitalism, when no one have money to spend, they tend to use it on the essentials, not on goods they could not need... And then, bom, the whole engine of the Chinese economy if not on a stand stil, it is on a far smaller scala than before...

The fight inside the communist party, the moderates, and the conservatives is a fight we just see the ripples of from outside China.. Today we just know what have happened before, but we just doesn’t for the moment who is the boss, as the current leadership is on their way out.. And China have always been rather unsafe, when change of the guard happening.. And we just not know, what really happening inside the country top leadership...

But we know, that what happening inside the Communist party in China, could have effects not just inside China, but also outside China.. if the hardliners won the game inside the Communist party, we all could be in for a ugly surprise, as the conservatives would be far more willingly to use the PLA, for showing how powerful China indeed are. And I fear, specially that India, and Russia would be in the cross air for many generals... They both "own" disputed land who China claim as their own, And many nationalistic Chinese would also turn back he clock, to before the late 1800 when Russia conquered more than 800.000 square km of Siberian ground, as an result where the imperial Chinese military had managed to loose to the Russians... And in the peace deal, more than 800.000 square km of Chinese ground, was made Russian... In that area, many suspects a lot of oil, gas and valuable metals to exist, and the last couple of years, specially after the year 2000, many Chinese "emigrants" have used tools, to get a peak in the ground.. And then suddenly coming home again, and more than possible reported about their findings.. The Russians have with good reasons been afraid of what this "emigrants" are really up to, and protested to their counterparts in China..
And China have been on a war footing with Russia before - even under the cold war, in the early 1960s, China and Russia waged a world war one style war with eatch other, and it took time for the russian army, who was far better equipment than the counterparts of the PLA, to end the war, when their armored military forces got into action...

I fear, we still wil live in "interesting times" when it is coming to China.. And where they want to go in the future

Diclotican

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
6. I wonder if some of this was triggered by fears of a slowing economy and housing crisis.
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 04:21 PM
Mar 2012

The China boom appears to be a bubble and they may be headed for a hard landing. It could get ugly.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
9. DCBob
Sun Apr 1, 2012, 09:24 AM
Apr 2012

DCBob

It could be. the building boom, and the economical boom, who have made China and given their people a wealth unknown for most of the Chinese history, wil end up in a bust sooner or later.. It all depend how they want to do it.. slowly and careful, or brutal and hard... It exist many cities around in China, who are brand new, and build where no one have been living before - but where no one live, because the properties is to expensive for the common man to even get their hand into.. Many have also used loans, or their new riches to buy houses, and make a bet that the property would be more worth 10 year down the road, than today... That is a hard bet, if thee economy is going down the tubs in 5 years time...

Diclotican

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