Pushing locals aside, Russians take top rebel posts in east Ukraine
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Source: Reuters (via Yahoo!)
KIEV/DONETSK Ukraine (Reuters) - As Ukrainian troops gained ground in eastern Ukraine in early July, separatist leader Aleksander Borodai, a Russian national, left for Moscow for political consultations.
After what he described as successful talks with unnamed people there, he returned to the rebel stronghold of Donetsk to introduce a new senior figure in his self-proclaimed republic, a compatriot seasoned in the pro-Russian separatist movement in Moldova and a war between Russia and Georgia.
...
Ukrainian-born rebel leaders have been eased out, causing rifts among increasingly nervous separatists since a Malaysian airliner was downed over rebel-held territory just over a week ago.
Antyufeyev replaced Donetsk native, Alexander Khodakovsky, as the top security person in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic. Denis Pushilin, another local once titled the republic's president, was dismissed.
Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/pushing-locals-aside-russians-top-rebel-posts-east-110455468.html
This whole 'rebellion' seems to be armed Astroturf from across the border.
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Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)that is exactly what it is, Ukraine needs to gain enough ground to seal the border and that will end the supply train to the Russians in Ukraine. Looks like they might be doing that down south as long as they can stay out of range of the Russian guns firing from across the border into Ukraine.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)It is a democratically elected government of a sovereign state unlike the self appointed Russians in the east. Some here and that same coup bull. As far as I know we have not been giving them tanks, MLRS systems, and ADA systems unlike the Russians supporting their guys that tried to take over part of a sovereign state. It does now seem they are getting direct fire support from Russia cross the international border of the sovereign state of Ukraine.
Sorry if your Russian green guys are now losing and having to get more help from mother.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)does to stir up shit around the world and whether it is actually necessary for the security and/or prosperity of average Americans.
Trying to take away Russia's pipeline business and putting an economic firewall that we control between Russia is not necessary.
If you think our government is trying to do anything else over there, I've got some WMD's in Iraq I'd like to sell you.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)I mean, if Russia stood down now, even after arming them, they'd keep fighting, right? The cause is so very important! NEO NAZIS!!11! 
muriel_volestrangler
(101,307 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Antyufeyev
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)
freshwest
(53,661 posts)They were pretty hands on trying to hold the crowd back.
Wonder if Putin was old enough to be at the concert.
Sting did a prescient song about the Cold War called 'Russians.'
Al Stewart's song 'Roads To Moscow' was haunting:
Don't know if either artist ever performed those in Russia. At the time the Beatles and some others did shows in Russia, IIRC, there was a backlash against 'western influence' but I don't think it lasted very long...
7962
(11,841 posts)EX500rider
(10,839 posts)
Igel
(35,300 posts)It's not annexed. There are troops, part of the Russian 14th army, there. (IIRC, they were formed locally and petitioned to be made part of the Russian army. There are officially Russian peacekeepers there--mostly to stop fighting, since the Moldovans had so little stomach for fighting that they decided to let the independence movement, such as it was, get established and rooted and take over. This was the Ukrainian scenario. Unless you are willing to fight for something, it's not really all that important to you. The Belarus president, Lukashenko, pointed this out in exquisite irony: If Crimea was that important, part of Ukraine, why wasn't a shot fired to keep it. He said that he'd fight for every inch of Belorus. If the Ukrainians had done this early in the Donbas, the problem might have been solved by law enforcement--before the buildings were taken and armed seized, militias organized, crates of weapons imported.)
Which is Putin's point. If you are willing to take what you want and nobody does more than spout rhetoric at you, you get what you want. The strong man with a will to power succeeds; the decadent Western wimp mumbles in futility and is beaten.
China's watching. It's already set up an oil rig and kicked out neighoring countries' ships from part of the S. China Sea. We're teaching China the same lesson. Because we're afraid that if we stand up to a bully we might get involved in all-out war.
People want a multipolar world. There's one of the poles.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Had we backed down from the ADIZ they invented in November over the Senkaku islands, that would have been bad. (Commercial flights still identify themselves and file flight plans, to my knowledge, but after the MH17 shootdown, it's clear why that's necessary.) I don't think we've pulled back, even with the dangers of ships colliding and fighter jets being scrambled--but Vietnam is kind of on its own in dealing with China, they're not like S. Korea or Japan or the Phillippines to us. About all we can do with their squabbles is denounce it.
7962
(11,841 posts)Leaders like Putin only respect POWER. They'll sign any agreement you stick in front of them with no intention of keeping it. Putin has no fear of the EU or the US because he doesnt think we'll actually do anything of substance to stop him. Just like the N Koreans. How many agreements have they signed to stop their nuclear program? They havent kept a one of them. Iran will do the same thing. The only one that may be considered a success is removing the chemical weapons from Syria.
Bosonic
(3,746 posts)A 2012 Russian TV interview between "Political Scientist" Aleksander Borodai and "Journalist" Olga Kulygin about the 1993 Russian constitutional crisis
Zoom forward 1.5 years, and here's an iconic image from Slavyansk of a supposedly Ukrainian Separatist woman.
"Separatist" Olga Kulygin ?
That's....weird.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Strelkov = Igor Gurkin, Antyufeyev = Vadim Shevtsov. WTF is up with that?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Igel
(35,300 posts)Kadyrov is royally pissed off at being added to the sanctions list, even going so far as to ban Obama's presence in Chechnya and declaring him (and some European leaders) the world's worst slayers of Muslims. That, if you missed it, is an open invitation to those that Kadyrov hates but sort of likes--Muslim loons. He doesn't mind them and actively recruits them, but makes sure they're on a short leash and he's holding the controlling end of it. The suicide bomber last week in Ukraine was almost surely his guys. A group of Chechens were also found in a neighboring province, allegedly running away from the front lines (and even the paranoid Ukrainians refused to go on record to say maybe they had something else in mind--the idea of the mighty Chechens deserting was too strong a propagandistic attraction ... plus, why state the obvious?)
So the news blip:
Earlier today it was reported from another Ukr military source that a couple of Chechen units had been observed newly positioned near the Russian border. A social-media report was that trucks and armor had crossed the border, but the military denied that. (Both might be right--some fighting along the border seems to have slowed down as the Ukr forces cut surprisingly deep in the heart of the DPR/LPR territory today, so the forces may have just been moved.)
Then there's this:
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2014/07/27/105657.shtml
In a nutshell, it says that hundreds of Chechen troops were repositioned at the Ukraine border (sent there on Friday, so matching the first Ukr military report) in order to be redeployed in Ukraine itself. And that those associated with the Khankala military base (just east of Groznyi) have never seen a more massive amount of armor and weapons are being loaded onto trains for shipment to the Ukraine border.
(The picture is of a Russian "Railway Forces" train--the entire country really is militarized)
They're saying that this isn't associated with the end of Ramadan, and that forces in Chechnya itself are also on heightened alert. Nobody's sure why, but they point out that the kadyrovtsy speak of a "big war" between Ukraine/NATO and Russia, and that Chechnya might be bombed as a result of it.
==========
Note that the Russia media are increasingly framing this as a struggle between the West and Russia and NATO and Russia and everything's been framed as presaging some sort of attack on Russia itself. Various advisors have said they expect Ukraine to invade Russia, declare war on Russia, destabilize Russia through a "Maidan" movement, etc., etc. At the same time, Putin's been doing things to try to ensure *Russia's* territorial integrity because it thinks that the West is actively trying to break up the country, that Yugoslavia was a trial run. The Russian press is full of references to the Bosnian and Kosovar "wars", and figures that Ukraine is another trial run. The "Novorossiya" types actively propagate the idea that they are defending Russia, and recruitment of people in Russia and fundraising is billed as fighting the West in Ukraine to protect Russians there, because if they're defeated in Ukraine then they won't have to fight them on Russian soil.
So all the repositioning might be Kadyrov pulling on the leash he's on the collar-end of, Putin's leash. Or it might be defensive, because Putin's paranoid. He might be getting ready to defend Putin's puppies in the Donbas with a rather large incursion--the DPR and LPR are close to collapse, even as they announce an increase to pension benefits, new health policies, appoint a new premier, work on an educational system, give speeches about tax code reforms. Putin may not allow that collapse. Or perhaps Putin really does fear--or wants his people to fear--an imminent NATO invasion.
Fear is a demagogue's greatest weapon. Fear of the outsiders suppresses most dissent and inspires loyalty of a sort, fear of the government suppresses most of the rest of dissent, and selective use of government coercion suppresses the rest.
In Transnistria Antyufeev, by the way, was dubbed the "Moldovan Beria."
7962
(11,841 posts)
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)...
But then sensing that a crowd of generals, admirals, defense ministers, and national security policy practitioners prefer gravitas to slapstick, McCain dropped a pretty big zinger on the crowd.
He said, "A year ago, Ben-Ali and Gaddafi were not in power. Assad won't be in power this time next year. This Arab Spring is a virus that will attack Moscow and Beijing." McCain then walked off the stage.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/11/the-arab-spring-a-virus-that-will-attack-moscow-and-beijing/248762/
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)contributed to Khodakovsky's demise.
He denied rumors that he was being backed financially by Rinat Akhmetov, a Donetsk-based oligarch who is arguably the region’s most powerful man, but who has recently taken a strong stance against the separatists. He did say that he had told Mr. Akhmetov once that they have “similar interests” in preserving order.
“We are not holding a socialist revolution here,” he said. “We are just trying to solve a problem.”
He also cast himself as a supporter of Alexander Borodai, the political consultant from Moscow who declared himself the leader of the Donetsk People’s Republic last month. But Mr. Khodakovsky laughed off questions about whether that would bring closer ties between Russia and the separatists.
“Everyone has relations with Moscow these days,” he said. “It’s just the logic of politics right now. It’s impossible not to have relations with Moscow.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/05/world/europe/in-ukraine-separatist-militia-with-russian-fighters-holds-a-key.html?_r=0&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=Europe&action=keypress®ion=FixedLeft&pgtype=article
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)missiles in the Donbass area.
I doubt Khodakovsky is not the only Ukrainian separatist who is pissed off by increases in Russian control of the separatist movement in eastern Ukraine.
It has been reported that factionalism is a problem among the separatists. Perhaps the Russians will see the increase of separatists among the separatists as the Russians try to run the movement from the top down.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)LBN host consensus has been reached that this article but doesn't fit the LBN criteria.
Please do repost in Good Read or GD as it is interesting info.
Sorry for the lock but thanks for posting just the same.
