New York State’s Schools Most Segregated in U.S., Report Says

[Redfairen]

Source: Bloomberg

New York State’s public schools are the most segregated in the nation, with the most black and Latino students in schools where less than a 10th are white, according to the University of California at Los Angeles.

Almost 30 percent of the state’s schools had fewer than 10 percent white students, and in 11 percent of the schools, fewer than 1 in 100 students are white, according to the report from UCLA’s Civil Rights Project, released today. The study used federal data through the year 2011.

The uneven distribution of students in New York, which has increased over the past 20 years, is being driven in part by New York City, which has more than a third of the state’s students. More than half of the city’s 32 community school districts are “intensely segregated” and a majority of charter schools are so-called apartheid schools, with fewer than 1 percent white students, according to the study. Schools with mostly minority students have less experienced teachers and inadequate facilities and resources, said Gary Orfield, one of the study’s authors.

.......

New York was followed by Illinois, Michigan, Maryland and New Jersey as states with the highest number of black students in schools where less than 10 percent are white, according to a 2012 study by the same authors. New Mexico, Texas, Delaware, California and Nevada are the states where white students have the most exposure to black and Latino students.


Read more: http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-26/new-york-state-s-schools-most-segregated-in-u-s-report-says.html

[George II]

1. Does the report define what "segregation" means in their eyes?

[former9thward]

4. Yes, less than 10% white.

I would say that is pretty segregated.

http://civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/research/k-12-education/integration-and-diversity/ny-norflet-report-placeholder/Kucsera-New-York-Extreme-Segregation-2014.pdf

[George II]

12. Yes, I saw that, but that's not a definition of "segregation"

[former9thward]

13. It is de facto segregation whatever your definition may be.

[George II]

14. Not really....

...when I was in High School (in NYC) about 90% of the students were Jewish. It wasn't "segregated". Now about 90% of the students are Asian. It's not "segregated".

If that 10% is the criteria the authors of that report used to define "segregation", the report is seriously flawed.

[former9thward]

15. Since it is a northern state I knew the report would be bashed and not the state.

If it was a southern state the report would be praised and the state damned for its racism. I posted a link to the report. If it is "seriously flawed" please tell us about it.

[Exultant Democracy]

16. If you aren't familiar with the history of redlining and how segregation evolved then

I could see how you would think it would be flawed. Given the historical and economic context in New York I can't see what your issue would be. This study is simply telling us basically what we have already known for a while.

[George II]

17. My issue is the misuse of the words "segregation" and "segregated", probably with the intent...

....of sensationalism.

Four of the top twenty most diverse counties in the United States are in New York State, more specifically four boroughs of New York City are among the top twenty most diverse counties in the United States.

Does that sound "segregated"?

As I said earlier, back in the 1960s and 1970s less than 10% (presumably the qualifying number) of the students in my High School were non-Jewish. To the author that would indicate that my High School was "segregated"! The student body is now more than 90% Asian, so in the author's eyes it remains "segregated". One of the most idiotic concepts I've seen in years.

It's an exaggerated misuse of the words.

[kwassa]

18. What misuse? You have yet to demonstrate misuse.

One county can be diverse, while another quite segregated.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/segregation

2
a : the separation or isolation of a race, class, or ethnic group by enforced or voluntary residence in a restricted area, by barriers to social intercourse, by separate educational facilities, or by other discriminatory means

This would certainly describe the predominately Jewish or Asian high school.

[George II]

19. I've given examples twice now

The report doesn't demonstrate "segregation", it just used the word in an attempt to attract attention and imply that it's intentional.

[kwassa]

20. Most racial segregation in this country is utterly intentional. That is historical fact.

What part of that history are you disputing?

[George II]

21. None of that

You're changing the subject. By characterizing NY schools (which wind up being primarily NYC schools) as being "segregated" is what I'm disputing. The fact that there are predominant races in particular schools is not necessarily racism, just as using the artificial "10%" as the gauge of segregation is simply not valid.

Along those lines, one could say that the city of Tokyo is "segregated" because less than 10% of the population in Tokyo is non-Japanese. Stupid conclusion, wouldn't you say?

[LeftyMom]

22. Overall diversity doesn't imply desegregated schools.

I live in what Time declared "America's Most Diverse City". We have schools that are overwhelmingly white, schools that are overwhelmingly Southeast Asian (I went to one of these) and schools that are almost exclusively black. One of the reasons is economic disparities, but it's also because previously segregated neighborhoods still have very low black populations, decades later, while the neighborhoods that had affordable homes and reasonably good schools in the era of significant SE Asian (mostly Vietnamese, but also a huge Hmong population) immigration have very high Asian populations.

Right now there's a problem where the people in an overwhelmingly white and very wealthy neighborhood are demanding that the high school nearest their neighborhood have it's (largely black) population relocated to another campus several miles away so they can have a "neighborhood school" for their kids. That particular school district doesn't divide schools by neighborhoods and instead has open enrollment, so this is essentially a demand to have a conveniently located public school with no black kids in it. They're not going to get their way, but only because the site they're demanding is currently home to the mayor's charter school.

[George II]

25. And lack of diversity doesn't imply segregation, either.

As I mentioned, my high school was predominantly Jewish 50 years ago. That was not because it was in a Jewish neighborhood, it is a specialized high school that accepts student from all five boroughs based on scores on an 8-hour aptitude exam. We had some students from families that moved to NYC from Europe in order to attend.

Now it's predominantly Asian. Again, not because of the neighborhood but because of the students' aptitude and desire to go to a higher level school - students from all five boroughs.

None of this had anything to do with "segregation", even though in both periods (50 years ago and now today) there was/is a predomination of a single "race" in the school.

I should point out that even though it was 90+% Jewish in the 1960s, there were outstanding "non-Jewish" students attending. One in my home room class went on to win a scholarship to Columbia University, was a Rhodes Scholar and eventually played a couple of years with the NY Knicks. Another student, a year behind me, wound up being the first black Attorney General of the United States - Eric Holder.

Once again, we have to be careful about making sweeping characterizations about institutions, systems, or communities being "segregated" simply because of their demographics. There are many more factors in play that would constituted "segregation".

[kwassa]

26. Lack of diversity does imply segregation.

I don't think you understand the definition of the word, which posted earlier in thread. You seem to be trying to create a new definition of the word, one I have never heard before.

Segregation can be by choice, and still be segregation. You don't seem to understand this point.

Most segregation historically has been against African-Americans, and not by choice, but by redlining and federal housing policy.

The example of your high school was segregated in another way; segregated by test scores, but nonetheless segregated. I went to a late elementary school, and junior high that were 90% Jewish, too, because that was where Jews geographically settled. Whether that was voluntary, or because real estate agents refused to show them different properties, I don't know.

[George II]

27. Try this.....

"Segregation itself is defined by the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance as "the act by which a (natural or legal) person separates other persons on the basis of one of the enumerated grounds without an objective and reasonable justification, in conformity with the proposed definition of discrimination. As a result, the voluntary act of separating oneself from other persons on the basis of one of the enumerated grounds does not constitute segregation". "

[kwassa]

28. So, we are talking about different word usages.

Same word, different definition.

No possible meeting of the minds here.

2
a : the separation or isolation of a race, class, or ethnic group by enforced or voluntary residence in a restricted area, by barriers to social intercourse, by separate educational facilities, or by other discriminatory means

[George II]

29. So give me your take on this.....as noted several times here....

...my high school student body is currently about 90% Asian. Is it segregated?

And according to your definition, "the separation or isolation of a race, class, or ethnic group by enforced or voluntary residence in a restricted area, by barriers to social intercourse, by separate educational facilities, or by other discriminatory means "

Isn't that a catch all that enables anyone using the word to define it any way one wants? How can you define a word by using the word itself? Rather ludicrous if you ask me.

[Hosnon]

2. Stop with the region bashing, DU!

Oh wait, it's not a Southern state so that won't happen...

[former9thward]

5. The report will be bashed not the state.

[awoke_in_2003]

3. While I would like to say good for Texas

the schools here are so bad that calling it an education is a stretch.

[DeSwiss]

6. K&R

21st century Charter School supporter and
segregationist NY Governor Andrew Cuomo.

- Sometimes the fruit doesn't even seem to come from the same tree......

[brooklynite]

8. UNREC

Point to a Cuomo Administration policy that advocates segregation in locally-based school systems.

[alp227]

7. Regarding NYC:

don't a lot of white children go to private college prep schools especially Catholic schools? and of course this report is yet ANOTHER indictment of charter schools.

[brooklynite]

9. Actually, most Catholic School students are minorities.

[alp227]

10. Oh OK. Then I suppose that white flight is also a factor

because families would rather live in places like North Jersey, Westchester County, Southwest Connecticut, etc. Am I wrong?

[brooklynite]

11. Not recently...

...there hasn't been much "white flight" since the 70s. More a matter that working class neighborhoods aren't ethnically balanced and busing has lost a lot of its appeal. Minority parents want their kids going to a local school (public or private), rather than spend hours traveling somewhere else.

[HockeyMom]

24. Immigration patterns

Queens, for an example. When we lived there, the neighborhood was mostly white Italians, just one or two generations from the old country. All local stores reflected this. My SIL still lives there. Now it is nearly all Asian. Signs in Korean, stores, etc. New immigrants tend to want to live in areas with other people from their country. That is nothing new.

My daughter taught in Queens. The school was mostly black, but they were from Haiti. The majority of kids spoke Creole and very little English. After the Haitians, there were the Asian kids. She said it was the Asian kids who were fluent in English. From what I can remember from years ago, that used to be a Polish area. Maybe when their kids grew up and moved away, they left too?

Changing neighborhood demographics based on immigration patterns?

[HockeyMom]

23. Where I lived on LI (Suffolk) it was around 98% white

A very wealthy black family bought a house down the street. They said it was their "weekend retreat" and "summer home". They had a condo in Manhattan and their children went to a private school there. Nobody ever got to really know them, or their kids, because they were never there.

The only person I ever talked to really was the kids live in Nanny. Black woman. She was the person who told me about the family.

Shame in way that they never became part of the neighborhood, but it was because of their lifestyle, not their race. I am from Manhattan too and we would have had a lot of things to talk about.