Arizona Senate approves lying to women to prevent abortions

[kpete]

Source: Raw Story

The Arizona Senate on Tuesday approved a bill that would allow doctors withhold information about prenatal problems if it could make the decision to have an abortion more likely.

Republican state Sen. Nancy Barto introduced the measure to protect doctors from so-called “wrongful birth” lawsuits.

Such lawsuits are sometimes filed by parents of children with disabilities who believe that doctors withheld information that could have led to the decision to have an abortion.


..............

“This malpractice shield is the latest in attacks on a woman’s right to access reliable, unbiased health care information and represents yet another effort by Republican legislators to interfere in doctor-patient relationship,” Care2?s Jessica Pieklo wrote. “But even worse, the law presumes that it is the state’s role to dictate what information a woman should have access to and what information she needs to be ‘protected’ from in accessing routine health care services.”

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-approves-lying-to-women-to-prevent-abortions/

[RKP5637]

1. Looks like the US is trying to work its way up the ladder as a repressive nation. n/t

[Spacemom]

2. I can't believe we're back to this

"That's not something you need to worry your pretty little head about."

[mike_c]

3. the GOP has become completely unhinged....

They're throwing a national temper tantrum right now, lashing out at whomever they perceive as vulnerable. They are intellectually bankrupt, and increasingly dependent upon the most ignorant and unhinged fringe that now constitutes their "base." I suspect they'll become more and more dangerous as they become less and less relevant.

The real political battle today is to drag the democratic party leftward again, to not let the republican implosion suck the dems any further to the right. We need real ALTERNATIVE visions for America's future, real electoral choices between fundamentally different ideals, and those aren't going to come from the political middle.

[anti-alec]

11. Hope this wakes up the Arizonans and see this is a losing issue

and start removing associations with the fringe end and going back to the left side of the spectrum.

Think Goldwater Republicans.

[sarcasmo]

50. No longer the GOP, they are the American Religious Party.

[longship]

4. No physician would support this

It goes specifically against the standard of care by which doctors abide. It's astounding the extent that these dispicible Repugnants do not care about women.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted by this.

[awoke_in_2003]

25. "No physician would support this"

You don't think so? I am sure there are fundie doctors that would support this 100% so that baby jeebus didn't cry.

[lunasun]

27. It is to dtop lawsuits aimed at doctors who have already done just this already

Fundie docs& fundie pharmacist yes they exist, are all very real and working not just in AZ

[longship]

34. No responsible physician...

I mean those who honor their profession over idiotic religious ideology would support this bill.

As I wrote, it is against the standards of care, to say nothing of their oath "to do no harm" to lie or to hide information from a patient which would put the outcome in jeopardy.

IMHO, an MD who supports this should be hauled before the licensing board.

[abelenkpe]

40. Ron Paul would support it

[Iliyah]

5. I would think that would be

against the doctor patient privacy act and totally against the doctor's creed. The goppers wants smaller government, say what? They are totally doing the opposite, especially towards women, workers, the middle class and the poor, well heck that the 99%.

[obxhead]

17. They want smaller government for businesses and the 1%

In every other matter they want the government to have full control by Christian doctrine.

[Iliyah]

6. Also

this means, forget about the care and life of the women and child, what a load of crap. Comes on, are these people smoking crack?

[OregonBlue]

7. I'd say challenge it in court but in Arizona that is the same as the GOP.

[Brettongarcia]

8. Ironically? The GOP claims that many of the new measures are merely, to better inform women

The Texas law requires that women be informed in an objective way of the status of the embryo. But what is an objective medical description of the embryo, exactly? Thanks for your observation that in point of fact, many alleged "objective" observations of the status of the embryo, are not objective at all.

So? What should a medically accurate account of a fetus include? How about: that embryo has "no brain large enough to sustain rational thought." (?).

Lots of variability here, as to what constitutes a medically-accurate opinion.

That's the first place I would start, in attacking these new anti-abortion "informational" and "personhood" bills, that are blanketing the country right now.

Thanks for your help. Feel free to cross-list ideas of this importance, on the matter of Abortion, in the "Health/Pro Choice" section of DU as well. There, I usually just repeat the title, with a note next that this is a "DU cross-reference"; then in the comment section, insert a link to the relevant article. Like your own.

[ladywnch]

9. boy, good thing we don't have govt getting between doctors and patients. that would be bad.

you just can't trust your doctor anymore.....thats okay

[OKNancy]

10. If I lived in Arizona, I'd hand my doctor a ten page questionnaire

about her/his politics, ethics, religion, and openness.

[anti-alec]

13. Wonder if it would be ideal to bill your own doctor

for time wasted on waiting for the doctor to get back with you on that...

Arizonans should now be ashamed to be associated with such vile laws that has come out of their Legislature.

They are the real reason we need birth control.

And they are a perfect poster people for reinstating asylums for the mentally insane.

[RainDog]

41. I would definitely ask a doctor's position on these issues

and would not go to a doctor that thought he or she had the right to with hold information from a woman about her own health because it pleases a bunch of religious extremists.

[avebury]

12. If I lived in Arizona I would tell the Doctor up front that I expect to receive copies of and and

medical tests. It is hard for a Doctor to lie to if they have to hand over copies of test results. With copies in hand you can either conduct reseach on line or get a second opinion from someone you trust. I also agree that I would want to know the Doctor's political and social beliefs because that will give you an idea how much he/she can be trusted.

[socialindependocrat]

16. Ask if they're a Republican...

If the answer is yes...go see someone else

and let them know why.

[saras]

19. If they can lie to you, they can forge medical tests. If there's money in it, they will

[DesertRat]

28. Good idea in any state

Thankfully I have a wonderful, progressive female gyn

[BlueIris]

60. Yeah, really. After the shit I've seen working in healthcare,

I will keep copies of virtually every last scrap of data compiled on me, online or off.

[MsPithy]

14. Do these forced-pregnancy doctors and Catholic hospitals

realize normal women will stop going to them?

[SemperEadem]

15. it's sickening that women can be the most

treacherous traitors to other women.

I guess the whole "practicing medicine without a license", which the state is doing here, is no longer a crime.

There is no such thing as "smaller government" when it comes to thugs. This is unconstitutional and will be overturned.

The Hippocratic Oath (Modern):

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

[socialindependocrat]

18. It angers me that this stuff gets to be law to begin with.

There should be a list of criteria that needs to be met befor enacting a law.

1) Does this promote lying or misleading the public in any way?

2) Does this generated from a religious belief

3) Does this law serve to make life better for the American public

4) Was this law initated by a Repuke

You get the idea...

[OVERPAID01]

20. The Onion

Wow, this is way out there, are you sure this isn't from the onion? I am just glad it says allow as opposed to saying it orders doctors to lie to women and/or withold any information.

[SemperEadem]

22. the links

http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2012/03/06/senate-approves-bill-on-wrongful-births/

http://ktar.com/6/1499817/Arizona-Senate-to-consider-preventing-wrongful-birth-lawsuits

the onion is not listed among them.

[SemperEadem]

21. bearing false witness , aka LYING, is supposed to be a sin

according to these religious fanatics posing as politicians. Are they now saying that what they are commanded not to do is irrelevant? god's word is no longer means anything if it means shoving their will up the uteri of the women of Arizona?

so, what about lying when it comes to a court of law?

can a lie even be prosecuted in a court of law, if the legislature says that lying is ok?

[awoke_in_2003]

26. anything is okay...

as long as it is furthering god's "will"

[peacebird]

32. Hoping you meant to add the < sarcasm> thingy....

[SemperEadem]

47. I wrote what I wrote the way I wanted to write it

I'm under no obligation to provide a road map.

[awoke_in_2003]

56. Yes, i meant it sarcastically. nt

[Occulus]

61. The trouble is, that is all too often true.

[nyy1998]

23. That would be a violation of the Hippocratic Oath

Why would any doctor follow this law?

[lunasun]

29. Hippocrates was a Greek physician who helped transform medicine from a field ruled by

magic, religion, and superstition to a scientific discipline.
SO he was not 'saved' and is bad
Please pray for his lost soul.

[nyy1998]

38. Um, that didn't exactly answer my question

[lunasun]

58. The kind of doctor who believes the Bible trumps Hippocrates

Some Doctors are just like some Congressional reps (who believe Bible trumps Constitution)
fundies are everywhere!!!!

[MisterP]

55. just curious (since I'm a history of history buff), but which writer did you get that bio

of Hippocrates from?

[lunasun]

57. Encyclopedia of World Scientists, Volume 1 By Elizabeth H. Oakes

[RockWarrior]

24. A little longer article...

http://www.trivalleycentral.com/articles/2012/02/09/casa_grande_dispatch/around_arizona/doc4f33fb55c9329812766041.txt

[47of74]

30. Sigh / ugh

[Betsy Ross]

31. Does that fall under bearing false witness?

Number 9 on the top 10 list.

[JohnnyRingo]

33. You're kidding me.

What the Hell is going on in Arizona?

Besides all the crazy new laws they passed in the last two years, just this week they passed a law that repealed the "no guns" restriction in school zones, and now this. it's making me wonder what they'll come up with next week.

I know AZ likes to think of itself as the new old west, but it's just getting insane there with lawmakers apparently trying to outdo each other in outrageous right wing legislation. I don't want to pick on this or any other state, and there are wonderful people living there, but lately I'm almost wondering how they even fit into the union anymore.

I'm puzzled.

[olegramps]

48. I really do wonder what in the hell is going on in Arizona.

Is it the result of massive immigration of upper middle class seniors from predominately white families? It would seem that their days are numbered do to the surge in Latinos and
Black folks who will eventually become a significant contingent if not the majority voters.

[triguy46]

35. Copycats. Kansas has already done this. Need to think up some new bizarre idea.

State supported lying. Lying as protected speech.

[asfghjkyu]

36. Spam deleted by uppityperson (MIR Team)

[krispos42]

37. puke

just...

[abelenkpe]

39. WTF?!!

That's insane!

[Kalidurga]

42. When Alaska just isn't crazy enough for you...

move to Arizona.

[got root]

43. The Handmaid's Tale

http://www.amazon.com/Handmaids-Tale-Margaret-Atwood/dp/038549081X

[blkmusclmachine]

44. Creeping "Christian Dominionism:"

"Biblical law" is the Teabaggers motto.

[christx30]

45. Correct me if I'm wrong here

But it seems to me that their argument is:
"This might totally make things in your life hard and destroy your family in every way possible. But as long as my conscience is clear, that's all that matters. I would rather have all of that bad stuff happen to you that you would have to live with for the rest of your life than spend 10 minutes feeling the slightest bit guilty. Your real life problems will always take a back seat to my interpretation of a book that was cobbled together more than 1600 years ago."

Please, for the love of my own personal sanity, tell me that I'm wrong. Tell me that it goes deeper for them than that.

[Wait Wut]

46. So glad I'm past that age and don't have to worry about it.

Yeah, just kidding. I'm disgusted. I will protect my DILs life with my own should she ever be in a position where a doctor would refuse to give her the information that she needs to make an informed decision. I hope his/her God would be prepared for that hypocritical "doctor". As much as I want a grandchild, her life and quality of life comes first. My promise to my son was that I would love and protect her as my own. I take my oaths seriously. I now extend that promise to all they women of childbearing years. Fucking sick.

Women of Arizona, before you sign up with any doctor have them fill out a questionnaire. Question 1) Will you lie, either directly or by omission, and put my life on the line to appease your God and politicians? 2) Will you support the child that needs 24/7 healthcare because of your refusal to provide me the information that would have prevented a lifetime of suffering for that child? 3) Are you a Conservative?

[sarcasmo]

49. The assault on women continues, I am pretty sure this is going to be a summer of

Protests.

[DallasNE]

51. Bill Would Violate The Hippocratic Oath

That prohibits "therapeutic nihilism" measures such as this. This oath, however, does not carry the weight of law.

[elleng]

52. NATURALLY; its what they DO, LIE!

[Islandlife]

53. Arizona senate approves lying

To codify lying to any group for what ever reasons leads to lawlessness and the failing of society. Isn't this the bigger picture here?

Please don't drop the ball. Please elaborate.

[AllyCat]

54. So it is just fine with Arizona if a woman dies or is disabled by pre-eclampsia/eclampsia,

ectopic pregnancy, or a multitude of other things as long as they save a fetus they can enslave and oppress later in life as a child?

I have a cousin who back in the '80s was not told her baby had gastroschisis (parts of intestine on outside of body). This is potentially deadly for the BABY because depending on fetal lie and other factors, any delivery, vaginal or c-section can rupture or otherwise compromise the intestine that is malpositioned. She never found out for sure, but was quite certain they did not tell her because they feared she might have aborted the pregnancy. Her daughter had multiple complications from this that might have been lessened had my cousin been able to participate in her and her baby's healthcare decisions.

Arizona Republicans are some form of slime. Sort of like that meat slime everyone is talking about only more direct damage that can come from it.

[Nikia]

59. The flip side of this is that the baby might have a life threatening problem

But the woman chooses to have her baby at the local hospital, where there aren't specialists available for emergencies instead of a hospital with a neonatal intensive care complete with pediatric specialists, because she believes that her baby will likely be born healthy while the doctor knows the truth. Does the doctor pretend to discover the problem during labor and involve a transfer or arrange for the specialist to arrive shortly before birth? If labor is quick or the doctor suddenly is unavailable, who knows about their secret plans? This sort of action could just as easily lead to the unecessary death or more severe complications for the disabled newborn. In some cases, prompt treatment could mean the difference between death or severe disability and a fairly normal life.