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Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:14 PM Nov 2013

Democrats Might Have Won the Last Big Election of 2013 With a Newly Discovered Voting Machine

Source: Slate

The vote count in Virginia's race for attorney general was expected to flip tomorrow, when provisional ballots from Fairfax County were counted again. As of this morning, Republican candidate Mark Obenshain was up by 15 votes statewide, out of more than 2 million cast; Democrats hoped that a break to their candidate, Northern Virginia's own Mark Herring, would allow him to take the lead.

But they didn't expect the reversal to happen today. Six days after the election, a precinct in the city of Richmond—Democratic turf—reported that not all of its machines had been counted. The Cook Political Report's Dave Wasserman was among the reporters watching that count.


Read more: http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/11/11/democrats_might_have_won_the_last_big_election_of_2013_with_a_newly_discovered.html



In very-heavily Democratic-leaning Richmond City, 190 votes found to have not been added to the tally split 153-37 and flipped the margin from -17 to +99 for Dem Herring.

#RVA Richmond review nets 132 vote gain for @SenMarkHerring, results in 115 vote unofficial lead in Virginia AG race #VaAG

In Dem stronghold Fairfax County, the as-yet uncounted provisional ballots should extend Herrings lead further out of reach of a recount altering the outcome. Much of Virginia voted touch screen, so recounting will have a small impact on the numbers.

Log of developments since Thursday's "smoking gun" here:
#VAAG Race - Multiple Dem sources - "smoking gun" something is up Fairfax Co = 3,000 missing votes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024000076
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Democrats Might Have Won the Last Big Election of 2013 With a Newly Discovered Voting Machine (Original Post) Coyotl Nov 2013 OP
This is great news Gothmog Nov 2013 #1
For the sheer optics of it, it's good news. A clean sweep of Virginia is symbolic. randome Nov 2013 #4
Plus, we've reached the stage where a mob of GOP operatives in suits scream for the count to go on. Coyotl Nov 2013 #6
SWEET! randome Nov 2013 #19
Poetic Justice!!! gopiscrap Nov 2013 #29
Ever notice how it's always Dem votes that somehow seem to get "lost?" Downtown Hound Nov 2013 #2
not always remember everyone's favorite little fraud kathy nicholas in wakeshua (sp?) county leftyohiolib Nov 2013 #9
What are the odds? Coyotl Nov 2013 #12
In this instance, there also were over 400 repub votes discovered onenote Nov 2013 #35
Think of "uncounted votes" in terms of outcome = was flipped, then flipped back by sleuth's work. Coyotl Nov 2013 #53
Not only has America marsis Nov 2013 #3
It's not about being "too stupid." It's about election rigging and fraud Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #13
Not entirely marsis Nov 2013 #38
I was a poll worker once. The training was not that extensive Ash_F Nov 2013 #26
that was my experience also except we were paid 7.50 an hour gopiscrap Nov 2013 #30
swarming monkeys or what? wikiguyjd Nov 2013 #78
No, much slower pace than that Ash_F Nov 2013 #83
Who is going to prison for this? Dopers_Greed Nov 2013 #5
Look forward not backwards zipplewrath Nov 2013 #11
Some tweeting about an investigation. Human "errors" need to be checked into. Coyotl Nov 2013 #22
You have evidence? Then present it. onenote Nov 2013 #36
Paper Ballots only Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #7
agree wholeheartedly JanT Nov 2013 #15
You wouldn't necessarily know if there were issues. Wilms Nov 2013 #17
thanks Wilms JanT Nov 2013 #44
Yup gopiscrap Nov 2013 #32
thank you gopiscrap JanT Nov 2013 #37
in WA there were recount teams made up of both Dem and Rep. along with Dem and Rep. gopiscrap Nov 2013 #39
Paper ballots PLUS a law that allows "manual" recounting freedom fighter jh Nov 2013 #18
For recounts go total old school. Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #20
Sounds good. freedom fighter jh Nov 2013 #27
And why not count them as they are cast? zeemike Nov 2013 #31
Issues with secret ballots Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #34
Well if the counters could not see the voter that would take care of that. zeemike Nov 2013 #41
Something like that seems easiest. Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #43
That sounds like it would work too zeemike Nov 2013 #45
To unprivatize the Republic Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #47
That would require specially-built rooms everywhere muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #42
Or portable screens. zeemike Nov 2013 #46
Won't work-- ten races and 5 party lines means... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #69
sure it will work,they do it in new england questionseverything Nov 2013 #73
That's New Hampshire, with a smaller population than my county and... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #88
yup I agree gopiscrap Nov 2013 #33
We should ask Scalia for guidance. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #25
in canada riverbendviewgal Nov 2013 #63
Agreed... MrMickeysMom Nov 2013 #64
Is there a Kathy Nickolaus working the polls there? Scuba Nov 2013 #8
Of course there are always the touch screen machines. Stevepol Nov 2013 #10
I hate faith-based democracy.....nt Enthusiast Nov 2013 #24
The beautiful irony here is that the rethug-led legislature pushed against paper trail voting!!! JudyM Nov 2013 #48
There's no real chain of custody, and the code in the machines are trade secrets. alfredo Nov 2013 #75
US Voting Is A Mess colsohlibgal Nov 2013 #14
Failing to report machine tally, failing to count, human problems in #VaAG race switched result. Coyotl Nov 2013 #16
while i apprcieciate the attention you have brought to this problem questionseverything Nov 2013 #56
Today's Richmond review revealed that a Dem-rich precinct was not counted. Coyotl Nov 2013 #57
yes but you do not know questionseverything Nov 2013 #58
We know tomorrow is the certification deadline for counties to report to the SBE. Coyotl Nov 2013 #60
great article praising the activists questionseverything Nov 2013 #82
K&R Tarheel_Dem Nov 2013 #21
These Republican fuckers can't even win when they cheat. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #23
Stop counting the votes, we have a winner! Enthusiast Nov 2013 #28
A machine went missing for 6 days? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #40
Someone discovered the vote total was too low. The ballots outnumbered the votes. Coyotl Nov 2013 #59
this short explains how votes get "dropped" questionseverything Nov 2013 #72
comment how repubs seem to be benefactors wikiguyjd Nov 2013 #89
connell was ultra pro lifer...do you know this story? questionseverything Nov 2013 #90
Huge relief. i drove a provisional voter in to have her vote validated today... JudyM Nov 2013 #49
Kudos! I hope your car gets better soon. Coyotl Nov 2013 #50
LOL! Good one, Coyotl. n/t JudyM Nov 2013 #62
Bless you! calimary Nov 2013 #65
This is why we need to get rid of GOP governors DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #51
Fairfax provisionals just reported today, 55% acceptance first 310, 183 left to review. Coyotl Nov 2013 #52
This should not happen. xfundy Nov 2013 #54
VA State Board of Elections (SBE) reports 1,103,610 Herring - 1,103,493 = 117 vote margin Coyotl Nov 2013 #55
Kick! n/t Tx4obama Nov 2013 #61
Go! blkmusclmachine Nov 2013 #66
Check the coverage on Rachel Maddow Coyotl Nov 2013 #67
Thanks for Your vigilance in keeping us up to date Coyotl!! K&R! hue Nov 2013 #68
Bradblog also keeping up on this topic chknltl Nov 2013 #70
Tea Party Nation has a question that needs an answer: Coyotl Nov 2013 #71
changes go both ways questionseverything Nov 2013 #74
Can we please get some real news here, with details on pertinent questions? wikiguyjd Nov 2013 #76
welcome to du questionseverything Nov 2013 #77
I have been an election judge Gothmog Nov 2013 #79
as i said the jbc is the second machine questionseverything Nov 2013 #80
I agree Gothmog Nov 2013 #84
welcome to DU gopiscrap Nov 2013 #81
Mark Herring (D) has won #VAAG by 163 votes with ALL ballots counted! Coyotl Nov 2013 #85
Read that that number will likely be insurmountable in a recount Neurotica Nov 2013 #87
Good thing it was "found". Pterodactyl Nov 2013 #86

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
1. This is great news
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:16 PM
Nov 2013

I have been following #VAAG Thank G-d, we have people on the ground checking for problems

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
4. For the sheer optics of it, it's good news. A clean sweep of Virginia is symbolic.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:19 PM
Nov 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
6. Plus, we've reached the stage where a mob of GOP operatives in suits scream for the count to go on.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:23 PM
Nov 2013
historic and ironic
Kim Broers ?@winetast3r
#vaag Herring takes a lead of 115 votes after recheck of precinct totals as requested by Obershain (R) lawyers. Who are now puking.
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
19. SWEET!
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:05 PM
Nov 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

leftyohiolib

(5,917 posts)
9. not always remember everyone's favorite little fraud kathy nicholas in wakeshua (sp?) county
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:25 PM
Nov 2013

"found" votes for the judge

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
12. What are the odds?
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:33 PM
Nov 2013

The odds were just 1 : 200 the Dem-rich precinct in Fairfax would be the one with a "missing batch" tally forgotten. Only one absentee precinct in Arlington was richer in spoils.

Now multiply that by the odds for a Dem-rich precinct also "going missing" somehow. These "smoking guns" didn't fire blanks, they changed the outcome, were found, and reversed the deleted-votes outcome. This election's stats undoubbtedly required the close scrutiny activist sleuths provided.

onenote

(42,383 posts)
35. In this instance, there also were over 400 repub votes discovered
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:03 PM
Nov 2013

Its not what people want to hear, and its not something that this country should be proud of, but its a fact that the discovery of miscounted and uncounted votes between the reporting on election day and the date on which votes are certified is pretty common. Also, keep in mind that many of the "lost" votes being added to the totals in Virginia are not lost or miscounted -- they're provisional votes that simply hadn't been counted when the initial results were added up. And because these corrected and/or supplemented totals are not all reported simultaneously, it creates the impression that there is something unusual going on. Sadly its not. The difference is that this time, the race is so close, that it has a spotlight on all the post election day counting and revising and correcting that goes on in every election.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
53. Think of "uncounted votes" in terms of outcome = was flipped, then flipped back by sleuth's work.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 08:22 PM
Nov 2013

The dropped tally from one machine in Fairfax and the uncounted precinct in Richmond switched the outcome to the Republican. Both were among the Dem-richest plums in the state statistically. Only the Alexandria provisional precinct is bluer than any Fairfax one of three. The one with the dropped count was the Dem-richist of the Fairfax three, and better than any large enough precinct statewide except Alexandria's. Richmond City has some very Dem-rich precincts.

Both "mistakes" are at the edge of the bell curve in terms of degree to which losing those votes changes the election outcome.

 

marsis

(301 posts)
3. Not only has America
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:19 PM
Nov 2013

become too stupid to vote, apparently we're too stupid to even count those votes.
Just wonder if it's broken beyond repair.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
13. It's not about being "too stupid." It's about election rigging and fraud
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:38 PM
Nov 2013

almost entirely carried out by Republicans.

 

marsis

(301 posts)
38. Not entirely
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:24 PM
Nov 2013

46% voted for Romney, Ken Cuccinelli only loses by 2-3%, Sarah Palin, Tea Party, Cruz, so no, not everyone but it's getting close. Very few percentage points separate the sides.

My point is that the good ole USA is supposed to be the global gold standard of democracy but we can't seem to get it right. And now we watch as the GOP is disenfranchising as many voters as they can, mostly in Dem districts.

Too few know about election rigging and gerrymandering, most don't care.
So yeah, I'll stick with my statement.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
26. I was a poll worker once. The training was not that extensive
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:36 PM
Nov 2013

Like...a couple hours. This included everything from setup, to manning the polls, to breakdown, counting and reporting.

We were payed 8 bucks an hour.

I would like to think I didn't fuck anything up

wikiguyjd

(3 posts)
78. swarming monkeys or what?
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 02:47 PM
Nov 2013

Thanks, Ash,

What is it actually like--just a bunch of workers
swarming over a bunch of machines? Seems like
there must not have been much of a system in place?

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
83. No, much slower pace than that
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 05:06 PM
Nov 2013

Each station is like an island of a handful of workers. They don't swarm to a central location to count.

The process and equipment has many steps and checks to prevent fraud. Even the collusion of everyone at the station would make covering the tracks of fraud difficult. The problem is this makes it somewhat complicated such that a few hours of training is really not appropriate, neither is paying the workers next to nothing. Most of the poll workers are clerks from the county government picking up extra shifts, who also get payed inappropriately low wages at their main jobs (8-12 per hour).

We had to refer to our manuals during the polls, repeatedly, to recall what to do. One of the equipment manuals had such hilariously poor grammar that it was hard to understand. I believe it was for the electronic voting machine that was for disabled voters.

Also, I was the only one at that particular station who was strong enough to break the seal on some of the equipment and lift the heavier stuff. However the fact that I was assigned there was not due to this consideration, just random luck. So they would have had to call for help otherwise, which was poor planning.

So I can definitely see how poor management and training can lead to stories like the one in the OP.

All this confusion may have to do with so much of the equipment being relatively new. Also, different states/counties would have different processes, as there is no unified voting system in America. This was Texas.

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
5. Who is going to prison for this?
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:21 PM
Nov 2013

Even if we win, my bet is that the AG will just "let bygones be bygones" and not actually try to go after the vote manipulators.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
22. Some tweeting about an investigation. Human "errors" need to be checked into.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:16 PM
Nov 2013

Should be interesting to follow this story, if someone does the work involved.

onenote

(42,383 posts)
36. You have evidence? Then present it.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:05 PM
Nov 2013

As I explained above, there are a lot of reasons that the vote totals in the AG race are being revised, most of which occur in every election but don't have the potential to impact the outcome. Do you think there is a Democrat that should go to jail for the vote counts that were revised in Obenshain's favor in some areas?

JanT

(229 posts)
15. agree wholeheartedly
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:42 PM
Nov 2013

in the paper only Washington (the other state) we don't seem to have those issues.

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
17. You wouldn't necessarily know if there were issues.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:53 PM
Nov 2013

While you may vote on paper, the ballots are counted by electronic machines.

According to information on the state's SoS site, there are even DRE's.

http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/votingsystems.aspx

JanT

(229 posts)
44. thanks Wilms
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:46 PM
Nov 2013

your link was interesting and sent me off on other links about voting and counting machines. wow! i had no idea there were so many different types of machines. I did not know that page was there so i learned something today. Dominion is used in my county so i guess i need to do some research about Dominion. More fun on the Internet. LOL Appreciate the info. I love DU!

gopiscrap

(23,674 posts)
32. Yup
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:54 PM
Nov 2013

remember the Gregoire Rossi governors race in '04 out of 4 million or so vote I think the final difference was something like 130 votes I helped on the recount.

JanT

(229 posts)
37. thank you gopiscrap
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:23 PM
Nov 2013

so on the recount, are they manually counted? or are they put thru the machines again? Just curious because i haven't actually been involved in the actual count. Maybe something i can do when i retire next year. Could be a learning experience.

gopiscrap

(23,674 posts)
39. in WA there were recount teams made up of both Dem and Rep. along with Dem and Rep.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:25 PM
Nov 2013

observers. This was a manual recount and for minutes and sometimes hours all would be well and then all of a sudden a contested vote and all the shouting would begin.

freedom fighter jh

(1,782 posts)
18. Paper ballots PLUS a law that allows "manual" recounting
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:05 PM
Nov 2013

I live in Fairfax County. At my precinct, voters are offered a choice between electronic and paper ballots. Most choose electronic, even when the lines are shorter for paper. One friend told me she does that "so no one will try to mess with it." So maybe the first thing we need is some education.

The paper ballots are counted by an optical scanner -- a computer, which can be programmed and misprogrammed. I understand (vaguely -- don't remember where I heard this) that not only here but most places where paper ballots and op scan are used, a non-machine recount IS NOT ALLOWED.

I did choose to vote (for Herring) on a paper ballot. But even with a paper ballot, there's little assurance of anything when a non-verifiable computer is part of the process.

i'm not sure I have this right, don't have time just now to research it.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
31. And why not count them as they are cast?
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:54 PM
Nov 2013

that three person team could be in a room with a slot where you drop the ballot in and the team counts and recorded it right after you cast it.
Then the results would be available and publicly posted after the polls closed and you would still have the ability to recount them...and any fraud would be contained to the prescient level.

It would be far cheaper to pay some Senior citizens to do that than to spend thousands of dollars on machines that can and probably are hacked...and there are plenty of Senior citizens that could use a little extra cash.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
41. Well if the counters could not see the voter that would take care of that.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:29 PM
Nov 2013

Ether screened off or in a separate room.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
43. Something like that seems easiest.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:36 PM
Nov 2013

We need to ensure a second party can't associate a vote with a person as well. I was thinking rotating ballot boxes, count off in groups of fifty ballots.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
45. That sounds like it would work too
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:11 PM
Nov 2013

And there are other ways of doing I am sure...but the real advantage to it would be the money spent on it would go to people that could use it, not to a corporation CEO.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
42. That would require specially-built rooms everywhere
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:33 PM
Nov 2013

rather than using general-purpose rooms. And keeping the 3 person team there (6, really, because a decent length of time to vote would need 2 shifts) all the time, to register votes very slowly.

Counting votes from ballot boxes at the end of the election is not a problem.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
46. Or portable screens.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:17 PM
Nov 2013

But the reason for the computer driven counting is to give quicker results...which I consider nonsense in the first place...
But any system of paper ballots counted by people would be fine with me...no computers and central tabulators that are easy to hack.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
69. Won't work-- ten races and 5 party lines means...
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 10:49 AM
Nov 2013

50 little boxes to be checked for each ballot. Then there are propositions and those "pick three out of five" offices, usually judges.

What are the odds your senior citizens are going to get it right as the night wears on? I'm a senior citizen and I don't trust my eyesight or my thought processes to do that sort of thing for 16 hours.

I have worked the polls many times and the errors I've seen (and made) just on the simple "who voted" list were common.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
88. That's New Hampshire, with a smaller population than my county and...
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:23 PM
Nov 2013

they're not expanding the program after all the problems they've had with it.

And they had those problems even with one-race primaries. The more races on a ballot the more errors you have.

And that's before getting into the chain-of-custody problems.

Stevepol

(4,234 posts)
10. Of course there are always the touch screen machines.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:29 PM
Nov 2013

As the article says, "Much of Virginia voted touch screen, so recounting will have a small impact on the numbers."

In fact, if recounting changes the result of a touch screen vote, something is wrong with the machine.

What's wrong with this picture?

Simply this: THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW IF A VOTE ON A TOUCH SCREEN MACHINE IS ACCURATE OR NOT, FRAUDULENT OR FAIR.

It's a totally faith-based democracy we have here folks, make of it what you will.


JudyM

(29,122 posts)
48. The beautiful irony here is that the rethug-led legislature pushed against paper trail voting!!!
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:22 PM
Nov 2013

Isn't that gorgeous? Now it finally bit them in the a$$. Hard.



alfredo

(60,065 posts)
75. There's no real chain of custody, and the code in the machines are trade secrets.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 02:22 PM
Nov 2013

They are just adding machines. Why must they be so mysterious.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
14. US Voting Is A Mess
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:41 PM
Nov 2013

We've monitored the voting in other nations yet our procedures are all over the place depending on where and non verifiable computer voting is an open invitation to cheat. What could possibly go wrong? How about 2004? Early in the evening it looked to everyone that John Kerry was going to win by about 53-47. Then what do you know, Bush won by about the same margin.

It's tied in with what old Joe Stalin said, namely that the power is not with those who vote but rather on who counts the votes.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
16. Failing to report machine tally, failing to count, human problems in #VaAG race switched result.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:47 PM
Nov 2013

And election integrity sleuthing switched it back. Nothing to do with machines failing really.

Humans dropped Democratic-rich vote results and ballots during the process.

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
56. while i apprcieciate the attention you have brought to this problem
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:05 PM
Nov 2013

you do not know if humans dropped the vote or of machines dropped the vote

the person receiving the tape results after election closes is rarely the same person that programmed the machine and neither of those people are the same as the person that records the vote for the state

there are just so many layers of obstruction it is difficult to pinpoint blame but taking machines out of it, having people hand count paper ballots on camera would be a huge step in correct direction

http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/webdocs/electionresultschangelogs/20131105.pdf

read thru this list of "corrections", numbers fly in every direction, many with no documentation except "reported wrong from precinct and that can be human err or that an entire machines totals were dropped when they were compiled at voting location

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
57. Today's Richmond review revealed that a Dem-rich precinct was not counted.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:17 PM
Nov 2013

This "slip up" in tabulation of the votes was first discovered by a sleuthing activist comparing the current tally to past elections.

In Fairfax County a portion of the votes in one absentee-ballot precinct went missing.

These two are not the only errors in the election tabulation.
These two reversed the intent of the voters and are being corrected thanks to activist vigilance.

Without several attentive result watchers, voter intent may have been reversed.

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
58. yes but you do not know
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:29 PM
Nov 2013

if it was humans that originally dropped the votes or the machine that dropped the votes

so stop defending the machines

yes today the activists are doing a great job, wasserman is a hero but we need a system that is transparent because when the entire nation is voting at the same time we can not watch them all

hopefully after this ag race is figured out the down ballot races will be looked at too...lots of district rep races are within a few hundred votes...all these finds could impact then

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
60. We know tomorrow is the certification deadline for counties to report to the SBE.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:33 PM
Nov 2013

All counting ends tomorrow and the vote becomes official unless a recount is held.

We also know that the switched election outcome was restored to voter intent in the nick of time.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
23. These Republican fuckers can't even win when they cheat.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:33 PM
Nov 2013

Have you ever wondered how many elections these thieving bastards have stolen over the years?

They should have to avert their eyes when someone unfurls the flag. Unpatriotic assholes!

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
40. A machine went missing for 6 days?
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:28 PM
Nov 2013


That's a symptom of a fundamentally screwed system. Each person in charge of a count should know how many machines, or ballot boxes, there are to count. And the record of how many there are, and how many were counted, should be totally public. How did it take 6 days to find this? What else has happened?
 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
59. Someone discovered the vote total was too low. The ballots outnumbered the votes.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:30 PM
Nov 2013

Last edited Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:26 PM - Edit history (1)

The failure to report all the ballots was blamed on the machine by someone. However, one or more humans did the counting and tallying using machines as tools. The human team is responsible for reporting the sum accurately, not the machine they run ballot batched through.

Who initially puts these 'machine at fault' explanations into print anyway? Who is making excuses why?

Statistics clearly illustrates voting patterns and irregularities. See: http://jqjacobs.net/politics/ohio.html

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
72. this short explains how votes get "dropped"
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:48 PM
Nov 2013
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/video.html#protect-the-count-1

because no human being can ever SEE the votes being counted inside a machine,no human can be held responsible,without some kind of proof.....it is kind of a plausible denial built into the system,which makes it wrong

i agree that there has been plenty of proof over the years of repubs being the benefactors of these machines...read richard charnin for some of that proof http://electiondefensealliance.org/?q=eda-blogs/michael_collins/300410/proving_election_fraud_richard_charnin_truthisall

but in this situation we just do not know enough yet about the facts to blame people verses machines

btw the activist that originally discovered the dropped batches in fairfax abs knew because they took the ab report from the day before the election of HOW MANY abs there were and pressed it....he was doing a variation of bev's "protect the vote"

wikiguyjd

(3 posts)
89. comment how repubs seem to be benefactors
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 12:20 PM
Nov 2013

See videos by Stephen Spoonamore--there is a long interview with him, that has now been broken into segments, but you can watch the whole thing on youtube. This is the one, where in the background there is a white stairway going up and to the right. Not so good audio, but basically at one point he says that conservatives seem to always be involved that are religious-right types.

Oh, and thanks for your responses to my comment of yesterday.

jd

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
90. connell was ultra pro lifer...do you know this story?
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 02:04 PM
Nov 2013
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Bob-Fitrakis-on-New-Eviden-by-Joan-Brunwasser-110728-924.html


The King-Lincoln-Bronzeville case is a civil rights case filed in 2006 against Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell. It was based on evidence showing that during Ohio's 2004 presidential election, black voters were disproportionately purged from the voting rolls, voting machines were deliberately withheld from primarily urban polling sites, and many ballots from minority/young/poor/elderly voters in major urban areas (read: Democratic) were never counted.

The results of the 2004 election have always been at odds with the exit polls. After the election ended, the exit polls showed John Kerry won by three points instead of losing by three points and thus should have won Ohio and become the president.

While investigating the civil rights complaint, evidence emerged that Blackwell (who also served as co-chair of the Bush/Cheney re-election campaign) had hired private contractors to oversee the election. One of the contractors was a long-established Bush IT operative, Mike Connell. Connell originally worked for the former CIA Director George H. W. Bush when he ran for president in 1988.

For some unexplained reason, Connell set up a computer system, which was supposed to be a "back-up" system for reporting the final vote count in Ohio. The system was actually more of a "man-in-the-middle" computer sitting in between Ohio's 88 county central tabulators and the Ohio secretary of state's voting site with the capability to alter the vote count. Within a recent court filing in the King-Lincoln-Bronzeville case, there is an architectural map depicting this computer system.

The computer system resided in Chattanooga, Tennesseee, run by a company called SmarTech under Jeff Averbeck. Averbeck is another highly-partisan operative who formerly worked for Richard DeVoss of Amway. Averbeck was a Bush-Rove loyalist. On those same stack of servers in Chattanooga was a website directly linked to the White House - gwb3.com .

Part of this information came from a deposition of Mike Connell and information from other IT experts assisting in the lawsuit. All of this evidence is contained in the new court filings. People should read the brief as well as the Connell deposition, the contracts with these Republican companies and then consider the computer set up.

The system is literally designed to hack the vote.

The reader can find the information here:
"New court filing reveals how the 2004 Ohio presidential election was hacked" article on freepress.org

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
49. Huge relief. i drove a provisional voter in to have her vote validated today...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:28 PM
Nov 2013

thinking every vote was going to count here in Fairfax County. An hour and a half and she'd taken a bath in awful perfume. I hope my car doesn't end up like that Seinfeld episode where the valet's stink never came out of the car

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
50. Kudos! I hope your car gets better soon.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:43 PM
Nov 2013

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2013, 08:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Poetic for a "something reeks" election, don't you know...

calimary

(80,700 posts)
65. Bless you!
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:31 AM
Nov 2013

Thank you for doing that, JudyM! And yeah, I remember that "Seinfeld" episode! Hilarious!!! At least yours would be of the perfume variety...

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
51. This is why we need to get rid of GOP governors
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:44 PM
Nov 2013

They will cheat and allow cheating. As much as I dislike Terry Mac, he can at least keep VA from getting sold the the GOP in 2014 and 2016.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
52. Fairfax provisionals just reported today, 55% acceptance first 310, 183 left to review.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:57 PM
Nov 2013

Julie Carey ?@JulieCareyNBC 11m
#Fairfax Co. Electoral Bd accepts 172 provisional ballots, rejected 138 w/ 183 left to review. Will know tmrw which #VAAG cand

If acceptance rate holds, about 272 of 493 ballots will count, producing a 90 vote gain (2/3 D) to 136 vote gain (3/4 Dem), placing the final victory near 200 votes, well outside a recount altering the end result.

xfundy

(5,105 posts)
54. This should not happen.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 08:24 PM
Nov 2013

Regardless of who benefits, "lost" votes and "discovered" machines should not happen.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
55. VA State Board of Elections (SBE) reports 1,103,610 Herring - 1,103,493 = 117 vote margin
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 08:41 PM
Nov 2013

with about 270 of 493 provisional ballots to be accepted for counting in Fairfax County tomorrow.

Check the bad reporting here:
Virginia attorney general’s race vote tally changes again, with a recount appearing likely
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/tally-in-virginia-ag-race-continues-to-change/2013/11/11/5d931cde-4af8-11e3-9890-a1e0997fb0c0_story.html

They don't understand the "lost" votes have been reported in Fairfax. Also, the recount may be mute tomorrow as the lead widens.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
67. Check the coverage on Rachel Maddow
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 04:25 AM
Nov 2013

Last edited Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Dave Wasserman ?@Redistrict 3h ago
Excellent job by @amaxsmith on @maddow tonight explaining Fairfax Co. provisional ballot situation in #VAAG:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/va-changes-vote-count-rules-while-counting-63028291568

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
70. Bradblog also keeping up on this topic
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:00 PM
Nov 2013

Fellow DUer and election watchdog Brad Friedman is also keeping up on this story:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=10365

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
71. Tea Party Nation has a question that needs an answer:
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:21 PM
Nov 2013

Tea Party Nation ?@teapartynation 1h
Why is it when #Republican precincts are rechecked, votes don't change but when Democrat precincts are, they do? ....

The likeliest answer, if the probabilities are really skewed, would be: Because Dems votes were stolen. D'oh!!

Dave Wasserman ?@Redistrict 21s
Unfounded conspiracy theories, from both Dems/GOP, are a disservice to election admins/boards working day & night to get things right
#VAAG

Taniel ?@Taniel 3m ago
Corrected: Only 422 uncounted or unadjudicated provisional ballots are left. 310 of them are in Fairfax. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApI-UwWlYOlrdE9IUnNwUGFLOG9PdUxaYjV1UGh2RXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 … … #VAAG

2014 Midterm Elections - Nov 12, 2013
Cook Political Report staff analyzed the influential factors in the 2014 House and Senate races.?
1 hour, 30 minutes | http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/2014MidtermElections

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
74. changes go both ways
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 01:52 PM
Nov 2013
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/webdocs/electionresultschangelogs/20131105.pdf

look at pages 8,9,12 and 14

huge rep changes

here is the problem,we have no way of knowing if this new corrected total is accurate either,,,and those pages represent an 800 vote swing that benefits reps

reps are not gonna believe the found votes in dem areas,dems do not believe the found votes in rep areas...the answer for both is more transparency

wikiguyjd

(3 posts)
76. Can we please get some real news here, with details on pertinent questions?
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 02:28 PM
Nov 2013

Seems like there is a big burden of proof on the people from this
voting location to convince us that this is what they say it is, and
so news people reporting on this should be asking a number of
pertinent questions:

How was it POSSIBLE that they "overlooked" this machine?
Where did this happen--give us a feel for the physical properties of the place.
How many people were on-site?
How many "machines" were there, and what kind are they?

What was the procedure that was followed on election night
to avoid overlooking any machines, and to avoid the possibility
of machines going missing or extra machines mysteriously
showing up, etc.

Was there a log of machines in service? How was it possible for
a machine to be in service, and not to have had its votes counted?

What were the chain of custody procedures from the end of election night
until the machine with the extra votes was noticed?

I.e.: Please convince us that it was really overlooked, i.e.:
How do we know that this machine and its votes are actually from
election night, and that the votes were not put there in the middle
of the night, last night? What are the procedures, how were the
machines and the site secured after election night, etc.

Seems like we should also be asking whether it is possible to simply
put another machine in service that was not used on election night,
tell the machine it is election night, record some votes, turn machine off, and VOILA!

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
77. welcome to du
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 02:44 PM
Nov 2013

watch the film from blackboxvoting @ 72

it gives an overall view of how a machine is missed

on election night the tape was ran from the machine,the election board had that tape in its files(thats why we know it existed)but they do not hand add the numbers, they take the memory cards and have another machine add all machines memory cards together,that is where a machine's count was dropped

if you look at the change log i posted from the state it happens all the time,as bev says ,too many middleman with no public oversight is a huge problem

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
79. I have been an election judge
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 02:56 PM
Nov 2013

All of our individual voting machines are hooked up to a Judge Booth Controller (JBC) where the vote is recorded. After the closing of the polls, the election judge runs two tapes showing all votes. One tape goes into the judges packet with the other key forms and the second tape is left on the JBC. The JBC and the laptop used to check in voters are taken to the election office drop off off location or to the main election office After being taken back to the main election office, the JBC is plugged into the county computer for the votes to be tallied. The paper printouts on the JBC and in the judge's packets are backups for the machine.

In this case, it appear that the paper printout was what told the election office about the missing machine. The drop off procedure can be hectic when more than one precinct shows up to check in their machines at the same time. My daughter was the election judge for the November election in Texas which for my precinct only involved some constitutional amendments. The checklist at the drop off location did not have a line for her precinct but they fixed that and took the machine. I checked later and the vote totals for our precinct were on the county's website and so I know that they counted that machine.

Again, this is based on my experience as an election judge in Texas. I imagine that similar technology is used in VA.

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
80. as i said the jbc is the second machine
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 03:10 PM
Nov 2013

and it was missing 1 group of totals...to be fair at this point we do not know if a memory card was not added to the "jbc or whatever virgnia calls their 2nd machine or if the machine itself dropped the votes (as they have been proven to do)

my point is always gonna be the same...the simplest method would be best and we the people need to be able to oversee every step in the process for elections to be free,fair and accurate

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
84. I agree
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 05:14 PM
Nov 2013

I am in charge of voter protection for the Democratic Party in my county which is why I volunteered to be an election judge. It helps to know how the machines are set up and what the procedures are suppose to be. I am planning on doing my own separate election judge training for the Democrats serving as election judges or alternative election judges for the next election.

In Harris County, a teabagger is the election administrator and so the Harris County Democratic Party participate or observe all testing sessions and certifications done on voting machines. My county election administrator is nominally a republican but has been easy to work with and we have relied on spot checks. I was given a copy of the powerpoint used to train election judges for the last election and I was comfortable that the rules for the voter id law was not too bad.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
85. Mark Herring (D) has won #VAAG by 163 votes with ALL ballots counted!
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 10:58 PM
Nov 2013

via twitter as last tallies emerged.

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