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Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:18 AM

Pasta And Depression Linked? Study Finds Carbs And Red Meat May Cause Mood Disorders

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Rhiannon12866 (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Latin Times

When one thinks of comfort food, pasta or its many derivatives often comes to find. But a new study from the Harvard School of Public Health debunks the idea that pasta can make you feel better. In fact, it finds the exact opposite. Published in the journal "Brain, Behavior, and Immunity," the new study has some groundbreaking findings that suggest that certain foods can play a role in making you clinically depressed.

When headline grabbing studies like these are released, many point out sample size and study length as a loophole for how valid the findings are. But the researchers in the pasta and depression study spent 12 years tracking over 43,000 women and their diets. Not a single subject had depression at the beginning of the study, but by the end, the picture was much different. The findings were clear cut: Women who ate fatty red meat, consumed refined grains (translation: pasta, white bread, chips and crackers) and drank soda were 29 to 41 percent more likely to be diagnosed for or treated for depression than their counterparts. Additionally, the women who consumed the foods mentioned also had higher biomarkers for inflammation.

This study builds on findings reported earlier this year from scientists at the University of Eastern Finland, which suggest that a healthy diet reduces the risk of severe depression. "The study reinforces the hypothesis that a healthy diet has potential not only in the warding off of depression, but also in its prevention," said Anu Ruusunen, MSc, to Science Daily, adding that foods that are associated with lower risk of depression include: vegetables, fruits, berries, whole-grains, poultry, fish and low-fat cheese. Science Daily reported that a "high consumption of sausages, processed meats, sugar-containing desserts and snacks, sugary drinks, manufactured foods, French rolls and baked or processed potatoes was associated with an increased prevalence of elevated depressive symptoms."

<snip>

Read more: http://www.latintimes.com/articles/9697/20131029/pasta-depression-linked-study-refined-grains-health.htm

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Reply Pasta And Depression Linked? Study Finds Carbs And Red Meat May Cause Mood Disorders (Original post)
bananas Oct 2013 OP
AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #1
yesphan Oct 2013 #4
AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #7
momrois Oct 2013 #8
PatrynXX Oct 2013 #22
babydollhead Oct 2013 #26
unblock Oct 2013 #27
Posteritatis Oct 2013 #44
Purveyor Oct 2013 #2
Renew Deal Oct 2013 #3
iandhr Oct 2013 #6
sir pball Oct 2013 #15
iandhr Oct 2013 #20
iandhr Oct 2013 #5
maddogesq Oct 2013 #10
Arcanetrance Oct 2013 #13
unblock Oct 2013 #29
GliderGuider Oct 2013 #9
RandiFan1290 Oct 2013 #41
GliderGuider Oct 2013 #49
A Simple Game Oct 2013 #11
Arcanetrance Oct 2013 #12
BainsBane Oct 2013 #14
KurtNYC Oct 2013 #16
pamela Oct 2013 #24
progressoid Oct 2013 #35
rocktivity Oct 2013 #17
dbackjon Oct 2013 #40
hack89 Oct 2013 #18
Beacool Oct 2013 #52
gopiscrap Oct 2013 #19
babydollhead Oct 2013 #28
gopiscrap Oct 2013 #39
hedgehog Oct 2013 #21
greymattermom Oct 2013 #23
tman Oct 2013 #25
demosincebirth Oct 2013 #30
Joe Shlabotnik Oct 2013 #47
RebelOne Oct 2013 #31
Wolf Frankula Oct 2013 #32
Sophiegirl Oct 2013 #43
kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #33
olddad56 Oct 2013 #34
truthisfreedom Oct 2013 #36
TexasBushwhacker Oct 2013 #37
alp227 Oct 2013 #38
elleng Oct 2013 #42
Posteritatis Oct 2013 #45
Ino Oct 2013 #46
Aquavit Oct 2013 #48
Beacool Oct 2013 #50
longship Oct 2013 #51
True Blue Door Oct 2013 #53
Rhiannon12866 Oct 2013 #54

Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:21 AM

1. This is clearly untrue.

Nothing makes me happier than going to the Old Spaghetti Factory, unhinging my lower mandibles, creating a low pressure region in front of my maw so nothing escapes, not even splashed sauce, and devouring everything on the table.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:24 AM

4. I can second that.

Of course the blurred vision and overwhelming need to sleep shortly after is just a coincidence.

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Response to yesphan (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:28 AM

7. Clearly a coincidence.

I'm sure it's nothing to worry about.

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Response to yesphan (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:28 AM

8. I always attributed that feeling to the wine

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:19 PM

22. nevermind eating red meat

cheers me up.. ahem ie Medium Rare (even with the damn warning on it) Marriott Hotel in Des Moines the one in the old building.. had a warning on theirs. good god now I know why. Patty Melt in medium rare. took a bite and the blood burned my hand. oh god that was good. wow.

Because of lo carbs I cut down on my pasta. hasn't helped my depression much

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:45 PM

26. that is a grand example of excellent writng

I love maw. I love all of the ways you described the moment. thank you!

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:46 PM

27. first, these kinds of studies never apply in 100% of all cases.

second, what you said doesn't contradict the study, and in fact may dovetail with it quite nicely.

you're saying something about the immediate effect of eating pasta, the study is saying something about the long-term effect.
indeed, the fact that eating these foods affects your mood (in a short-term positive way) may very well have something to do with the long-term negative effects.

personally, pasta has always been a comfort food, and i can certainly relate to your dining description.

but i have found that, now that i no longer eat meat (seafood is ok) and the pasta i eat is usually whole grain, i rarely get nearly the same "boost" from eating it.

i've often suspected that the pasta-feel good feeling is actually a sort of ending of withdrawal.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:30 PM

44. Prose o'the Day award to you, good sir. (nt)

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:23 AM

2. Well there now you see, it isn't just the way I am...

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:24 AM

3. And what pairs best with pasta and red meat? Red Wine!

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:26 AM

6. I prefer white wine with pasta.

But agree with red for meet.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:58 AM

15. Pasta pairings are all about the sauce.

Alfredo or clam sauce, sure, give me something dry, acidic, minerally...ideally something that tastes like it was aged over a bed of limestone. But for a good bolognese or lasagna, nothing beats a good Sangiovese IMO (or even better Lacrima di Morro d'Alba, if you can find it).

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Response to sir pball (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:10 PM

20. Agreed

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:25 AM

5. I always feel great when I eat pasta.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:40 AM

10. Speaking as a vegetarian...

I enjoy eating pasta with a really garlicky marinara sauce. Then, I make myself happy by making people run away with my adult garlic breath.

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Response to maddogesq (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:51 AM

13. I second the ultra garlicky marinara I roast an entire thing of garlic to put in my sauce and

usually add more

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Response to maddogesq (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:52 PM

29. personally i prefer olive oil with my garlic sauce, throw in some broccoli and artichoke hearts.

of course the real secret to eating garlic and surviving socially is to make sure those closest to you eat plenty at the same time

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:38 AM

9. I went gluten-free 8 months ago, and cannot believe the mood difference.

It totally blew me away to realize that bread, pasta and cereal could make me feel that shitty. Not to mention the GERD, the edema and the weight... I'm also now mostly veg, and stopped drinking alcohol at the same time. My body is telling me they are all good changes. Luckily there are so many other vices to fill the gap!

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Response to GliderGuider (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:08 PM

41. It's amazing isn't it?

Just over a year of no smoking and almost completely cut out meat. I am now beating the carbs and everyday I feel better and better.

Just made another order for hemp protein powder and hemp oil. I have been on them for about 6 months and I just can't stop raving about them.

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #41)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:11 PM

49. +1000 - Oh yeah!

Self-care rocks!

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:40 AM

11. Mood disorder? Only if I don't get my pasta. n/t

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:49 AM

12. I'm happier when I have my pasta than without

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

14. I believe pasta but not red meat

The book The Chemistry of Joy looks at how diet affects mood disorders. The author recommends a diet high in protein, whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. A dietitian recommended I eat some protein every time I ate something, and I found it helpful.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:58 AM

16. Can't find the data behind this but this is correlation, not causation

What if people who are depressed seek out pasta and carbs? The data would look the same.

This wasn't a controlled study where they have controls and double blind the data. Looks like this was just taking Harvard Nurse Study data and finding this correlation in it.

Why only women? and why did none of them have any depression at the beginning of the study period? sounds like cherry picking.

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:27 PM

24. I was thinking the same thing.

Do people eat those foods and become depressed or do they become depressed and then eat those foods?

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 02:03 PM

35. Right. I remember reading a study that a drop in seratonin levels can trigger a desire for carbs.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:05 PM

17. I loved Barilla's thin spaghetti and marina sauce

I'm certainly depressed about that!


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #17)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 03:39 PM

40. I hope you are no longer eating Hate Pasta

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:06 PM

18. I am a great believer in the medicinal powers of a juicy cheeseburger

I subscribe to a very squat food pyramid.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #18)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:46 PM

52. A squat food pyramid?

That made me laugh out loud.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:08 PM

19. actually I am in a good mood after I eat Italian

it's Mexican food that puts me in a bad mood.

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:48 PM

28. eating chicken makes me feel fowl.

everybody is different. every Body is different.

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Response to babydollhead (Reply #28)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 02:50 PM

39. well eating fish makes me feel like I want to go for a swim

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:10 PM

21. Well it must be true - isn't it a stereotype that Italians are very depressed, moody

people with no interest in life?



Red meat and/or simple carbs and/or soda (diet or sugared?) were mentioned, simple carbs included pasta and/or crackers and/or bread and/or chips; but I guess a headline suggesting that chips and diet soda are bad for you just isn't as interesting.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:23 PM

23. It's probably the sugary drinks

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:33 PM

25. Is there anything we can eat anymore?

Besides, my italian friends are among the the happiest I know.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 12:54 PM

30. When I ws in Italy, I never noticed too many depessed Italians.

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #30)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:06 PM

47. +1

I've had many Italian neighbours, friends and co-workers and if I had to generalize any group of people as not depressive, it would undoubtedly be them.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 01:09 PM

31. I do not eat any meat at all,

but I love my pasta. Must have my pasta, any kind, spaghetti, macaroni and cheese, etc.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 01:25 PM

32. Very Soon

A Highly Prestigious School Of Public Health will come out with a study showing that Pasta and Red Meat prevent mood disorders and that vegetables, fruits, berries, whole-grains, poultry, fish and low-fat cheese cause cancer in rats.

Wolf

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Response to Wolf Frankula (Reply #32)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:26 PM

43. Just like...

What was said about eggs, coffee, chocolate and many other foods and drinks.

Furthermore, women have a higher rate of depression than men. Short and long-term. As well as other mental health issue such as bipolar disorder. Why men weren't included in this study is beyond me.

That said, I don't eat much pasta nor do I drink sugary drinks of any kind (actually, I can't handle the sugar so that is a no-brainer for me). I have also recently become soda and caffiene-free. I'm physically healthy and have had a very successful career, but I still struggle with a mood disorder and depression. As do many more people than one might think. Therapy and medication help mitigate these mental health issues. Which, BTW, are barely covered by even the best insurance plans, if at all.

Other, more legitimate studies, indicate that depression and mood disorders are closely linked to childhood abuse - something rampant and all too often unspoken of in our society unless it makes headline national news outlets.

After many studies, it has been proven that brain chemistry and function are altered as a result of childhood abuse...sexual, physical and emotional. Fortunately, studies have also shown that the brain can be "re-trained," reconditioning its responses to a more functional and healthy state. Though it is a difficult undertaking for those who are even remotely aware of the possibility and work hard to do it. I want to see this become more widely known in order to give survivors hope for changes in their lives, even if only in a small way. Anything is better than nothing for these people. People like me.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/feb/13/childhood-abuse-growth-brain-

http://healthland.time.com/2012/02/15/how-child-abuse-primes-the-brain-for-future-mental-illness/

IMO, this study is flaw from the get-go. Next, they will study how puppies and kittens cause depression and mental illness. Maybe even eating disorders, chemical abuse and alcoholism too.

Many of the comments I have read here make light of this. But this type of misinformation, based on an uncontrolled study, is absurd and, to a large degree, harmful. Cut out the pasta and you'll be JUST FINE. Let me think now. What is pasta made from. Flour and eggs. If that is the so-called problem, people should throw out just about every bread product in their homes. Unless it is gluten-free. But then, maybe so. Did they add that to their study for comparison? Doubtful.

I throw the BS flag.

Did taxpayers fund this? If so, I want my money back!!!

Sorry for the length of this post. But this type of irks me to no end.

Rant over.

Sofie

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 01:49 PM

33. I had whole wheat rotini with mushroom marinara last night.

Feeling chipper this AM. I love pasta. Without pasta I'd probably die of depression.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 01:51 PM

34. maybe depression causes people to eat too much pasta and red meat.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 02:06 PM

36. In other news, life is depressing, terminal

Scientists have recently revealed that we're all soon dead.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 02:33 PM

37. Paleo diet fans would say it's the pasta and soda that are the problem

Even whole grains, especially those with gluten, are a problem for many. Dr. Terry Wahls turned around her progressive Multiple Sclerosis by eliminating grains and dairy from her diet and eating plenty of non-starchy vegetables and fruit, with some meat and fish. Here is her TED talk:



Neurologist David Perlmutter feels grains, carbs and sugar are toxic to the brain and has written "Grain Brain" about it:

http://www.amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surprising-Sugar--Your-Killers/dp/031623480X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383071350&sr=1-1

Cardiologist William Davis feels that eliminating wheat is the key to conquering diabetes and heart disease. His book is called "Wheat Belly".

http://www.amazon.com/Wheat-Belly-Lose-Weight-Health/dp/1609611543/ref=pd_sim_b_2

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 02:47 PM

38. Link to the actual abstract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889159113004698

excerpt

Methods

Using reduced-rank regression, we identified a dietary pattern that was related to plasma levels of inflammatory markers (C-reactive protein, interleukin-6, tumor necrosis factor α receptor 2), and we conducted a prospective analysis of the relationship of this pattern and depression risk among participants in the Nurses’ Health Study. A total of 43,685 women (aged 50–77) without depression at baseline (1996) were included and followed up until 2008. Diet information was obtained from food frequency questionnaires completed between 1984 through 2002 and computed as cumulative average of dietary intakes with a 2-year latency applied. We used a strict definition of depression that required both self-reported physician-diagnosed depression and use of antidepressants, and a broader definition that included women who reported either clinical diagnosis or antidepressant use.
Results

During the 12-year follow-up, we documented 2594 incident cases of depression using the stricter definition and 6446 using the broader definition. After adjustment for body mass index and other potential confounders, relative risks comparing extreme quintiles of the inflammatory dietary pattern were 1.41 (95% confidence interval , 1.22, 1.63; P-trend < .001) for the strict definition and 1.29 (95% CI, 1.18, 1.41; P-trend < .001) for the broader definition of depression.
Conclusions

The inflammatory dietary pattern is associated with a higher depression risk. This finding suggests that chronic inflammation may underlie the association between diet and depression.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 04:21 PM

42. Maybe THAT explains it,

ya think?

I finally COOKED something Sunday, it was a pasta dish the recipe I'd saved a while ago, haven't cooked in quite a while, so ate it Sunday and again Monday (adding Ital Sausage etc,) and after waking (late) today, and reading e-mail, felt/feel kind of down. But maybe that's because I had a message from attorney dealing with my husband's estate, and I had to make several contacts to obtain info for the estate tax submissions.

Waddya think, pasta, or estate taxes???

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:32 PM

45. Oh hey! A sweeping health claim in the news with the word "linked" used!

I of course have perfect faith in the ability of science journalists to be reading the studies effectively and not extrapolating overblown conclusions from the data provided, especially when they're supervised by contemporary editors who want everything as dramatically clickbaity as possible.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:06 PM

46. Make pasta out of zucchini

A julienne peeler cuts long thin strips from the zucchini. Saute in a scant amount of olive oil until limp and softened. It's awesome! The same tooth-feel as pasta, a big helping of vegetable, no carbs, no guilt. One medium zucchini makes enough for a plateful.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:19 PM

48. Most grains = GMO

and most cattle are fed GMO corn. Hmmm...I'm sure this is just a coincidence.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:39 PM

50. Without any of these things then I would have a reason to be depressed.

Science Daily reported that a "high consumption of sausages, processed meats, sugar-containing desserts and snacks, sugary drinks, manufactured foods, French rolls and baked or processed potatoes was associated with an increased prevalence of elevated depressive symptoms."



All things in moderation. They key words seem to be "high consumption". A little pasta, bread, dessert, etc. is not the problem. It's overeating these foods what makes them unhealthy.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:44 PM

51. But... BACON!!!

I rest my case.

Italian sausage, also awesome.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 12:51 AM

53. Seems reasonable.

These are foods with a high glycemic index. Pasta may also contribute to problems related to gluten intolerance, which is something I myself live with. Anything that stresses your body in unhealthy ways can have mood consequences. I find that gluten-free pasta can taste just as good as regular pasta without the high glycemic index or digestive issues. My favorite, and the one that leaves me feeling the best physically, is quinoa pasta.

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Response to bananas (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2013, 02:16 AM

54. Locking, sorry, but this is analysis rather than breaking news.

Interesting topic, though, so please consider reposting in GD, Good Reads or Health. Thanks!

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