Pastor Who Claimed He Raped Teenage Boys to Keep Them "Sexually Pure" Will Not Serve Jail Time

[hue]

Source: AlterNet

Iowa's "rape the gay away" pastor gets his sentence reduced and visitation rights with his children.

September 12, 2013 |

Iowa pastor and youth counselor Brent Girouex, who claimed with a straight face that he was trying to "cure" teenage boys of their "homosexual urges" by having sex with them, has had his sentence reduced from 17 years in prison to sex offender treatment and probation.

Since Girouex confessed to having sex with four underage boys, eight additional young men have come forward saying they were sexually violated by the 31-year-old pastor.

Girouex, who is not longer a pastor at the Victory Fellowship Church, believed that he could rape away the gay by "praying while he had sexual contact" with the boys, all in an effort to keep them "sexually pure" for God.

According to reports, he told police that "when they would ejaculate, they would be getting rid of the evil thoughts in their mind."

Read more: http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/rape-away-gay-pastor-gets-sentence-reduced

[Behind the Aegis]

2. WTF!?

No, seriously...

[idwiyo]

3. This couldn't be real. It MUST be a joke.

[Judi Lynn]

12. No kidding. It's a crime NOT to put him away. n/t

[idwiyo]

14. Fuck, I am just sitting here going "WTF?!" non-stop.

[MuseRider]

4. Wait, he raped these boys

and is not going to jail? Why? OK, I need to go read, sorry I am just responding to your snip. Still, this is not right.

On Edit: I read it. How does someone rape someone else to keep them sexually pure for God? Where are these people coming from? Our society is tipping into REALLY crazy territory.

[busterbrown]

10. Let us know what you come up..

Right now this city should be ground zero for the LGBT and Straight Community..
Demonstrations against this injustice should begin immediately!!

[MuseRider]

19. Absolutely.

Where are these judges coming from and whose law are they using to sentence these perps? This guy admitted it and gave a reason and he still gets no jail time? Raping for Jesus is now OK? Those poor boys.

[xfundy]

35. Perhaps the victims "were older than their chronological age"

Like that 14-yr-old girl who was raped by her teacher. Judge gave teacher 30 days.

[IrishAyes]

55. At least that sentence is under review.

But things like this make me sick.

[Kelvin Mace]

105. Look at the dates of the original news reports

this story is over a year old.

[IrishAyes]

109. Thanks for the reminder, honestly

But I was speaking of the other story. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I'm always scolding other people for that!

[CRH]

21. Our society has been in crazy territory for quite sometime, ...

Slavery for the first 250+ years, women not allowed to vote until the 1920's, eugenics laws practicing forced sterilization in 42 states through the 1940's and some as late as the seventies. Then the push in the seventies preventing free choice culminating with Roe v Wade. Add in corporate person hood with equal rights, and the Christian fundies that still control the politics and laws in southern and bible belt states, and you still have a whole bunch of crazy, alive and well if not swell, in the US.

[MuseRider]

23. Yeah, I do know this

I live in Kansas. I live in Kansas and work LGBT issues. Oh yes, we are loaded with crazy here. I guess there is always that little streak in my heart that hopes we are all not as crazy as here.

[freshwest]

68. What do you mean here, it seems to contradict your post:

Then the push in the seventies preventing free choice culminating with Roe v Wade.

It's not the same languge I would use. To me, the push preventing free choice are personhood bills. Miscommnication, I guess. Otherwise, great post and it needed to be said about our history. Thanks for that...

[matt in france]

75. they are delusional

they believe a special diety in the sky created the world in 8 days, they are fucked in the head, they believe this diety gives them the power to make people sexually pure by raping them and the christian judge AGREES because they think the pastor is doing god's work. This is why i am athiest, because god would be a truly sadistic bastard if he really existed, only a sadist would create gay teens so that they could have their gayness raped out of them by a male pastor. God if he existed = a sick fuck

[JRLeft]

82. Totally agree.

[jberryhill]

76. There is no crime called "rape" in Iowa

...which is one of the reasons for the weird reporting on the story.

Chapter 709 of the Iowa code defines various species of "sexual abuse":

http://search.legis.state.ia.us/nxt/gateway.dll/ic/1/13/25874/25875/26104

The sections of interest are these:

709.2 Sexual abuse in the first degree.
709.3 Sexual abuse in the second degree.
709.4 Sexual abuse in the third degree.
[...]
709.15 Sexual exploitation by a counselor, therapist, or school employee.

What you generally pick up is that, in general, the "age of consent" is sixteen, as the last age-dependent category is that of a person who is more than four years older than a 15 year old (in other words, a 19 year old may lawfully have sex with a 15 year old).

I haven't seen any reports which are specific about ages other than "teen" - which can include anything from 16 to 19, and with whom, but for 709.15, sexual relations would not be unlawful.

At least one story does mention that what he specifically pled guilty to was 709.15, which says:

2. Sexual exploitation by a counselor or therapist occurs when any of the following are found:

a. A pattern or practice or scheme of conduct to engage in any of the conduct described in paragraph “b” or “c”.

b. Any sexual conduct, with an emotionally dependent patient or client or emotionally dependent former patient or client for the purpose of arousing or satisfying the sexual desires of the counselor or therapist or the emotionally dependent patient or client or emotionally dependent former patient or client, which includes but is not limited to the following: kissing; touching of the clothed or unclothed inner thigh, breast, groin, buttock, anus, pubes, or genitals; or a sex act as defined in section 702.17.

c. Any sexual conduct with a patient or client or former patient or client within one year of the termination of the provision of mental health services by the counselor or therapist for the purpose of arousing or satisfying the sexual desires of the counselor or therapist or the patient or client or former patient or client which includes but is not limited to the following: kissing; touching of the clothed or unclothed inner thigh, breast, groin, buttock, anus, pubes, or genitals; or a sex act as defined in section 702.17.

Sexual exploitation by a counselor or therapist does not include touching which is part of a necessary examination or treatment provided a patient or client by a counselor or therapist acting within the scope of the practice or employment in which the counselor or therapist is engaged.

Now what it looks like, and this is just a wild-ass guess, is that this whole business of having sex being part of the therapy is designed to fall into the exception in 709.15 which I've highlighted.

In other words, leaving aside the entire issue of age, as none of the articles seems specific about that, you have a situation where a guy was using his position as counselor to obtain sex from his patients. Ah, but what if the "therapy" included, as a necessary component, having sex with the patients!

Now, sure, someone could say that's just right round the bend nutty, but when you throw in a "religious" component to it, then there is no end to what would otherwise be nuttery that is transformed, by the good old First Amendment, into a protected practice.

[TheDeputy]

5. Get the pitchforks. N/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

6. Why do I expect a followup report where he's been strung up by his nuts?

[historylovr]

11. Well, he should be.

But I think that's too merciful. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.

[IrishAyes]

56. I could live with that.

[Kelvin Mace]

7. Are there any links from local news sources for this?

I can find one UPI story:

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/Blog/2013/09/04/Pastor-had-sex-with-teens-to-cure-their-homosexuality/7561378323986/#ixzz2eUcP5QnU

And while AlterNet is generally reliable, I would really like to read more details about the case from other sources.

[TacoD]

18. Here's one.

http://www.ketv.com/Wife-Condemns-Youth-Pastor-In-Sex-Crimes-Case/-/9675214/11669906/-/ag7iqn/-/index.html

On edit: previous link was not local, this one is.

[Kelvin Mace]

31. Thanks

Exactly what I was looking for. But it raises a few questions. The UPI story is recent, but this story is a year old. Technically, the UPI story isn't a news story, but a reporter's blog post, a distinction some might argue about.

I am baffled as to why this is only surfacing now, a year later. The story you link to ends kind of abruptly and lacks any detail as to the judge's justification for reducing the sentence from 17 years to 5 years probation. Also, there is no discussion of community reaction to the sentence, no interviews with church members, victims, the DA, police etc.

This is a very peculiar story, meta-journalistically speaking.

[TacoD]

37. Interesting. I hadn't checked the dates.

UPI blog dated today links to Wisconsin Gazette story from 2011. Alternet story from today quotes (but doesn't link to) KCCI (Des Moines, IA) story from 2012. Also there's a KRMG (Tulsa, OK) story dated three days ago that links to the same 2012 KCCI story. The KCCI story links to the KETV (Omaha) story that I linked..

Looks like KRMG resurrected this story on Sept. 9, 2013 for unknown reasons, and then it spread to UPI, alternet, etc. The KRMG story says that the sentence reduction occurred "last week", but it links to the KCCI story from March 2012 which says that the sentence reduction occurred "Wednesday."

[Kelvin Mace]

104. Again, the question is why this story

didn't blow up in 2012, instead it goes viral now, a year too late.

[Blasphemer]

40. Very bizarre indeed

This guy is no different than Sandusky, who is likely never going to get out of prison. And yet, such a difference in the media coverage. Or maybe that's the crux of the issue. Would this sentence have been reduced if this story had gotten national attention?

[Kelvin Mace]

103. My thoughts exactly

and why is this judge still on the bench?

I am SO fed up with rape being treated as an "understandable" crime.

[valerief]

8. Hmm, common sense vs. $$$$$$$$$$. I wonder which won out here. nt

[Ilsa]

9. What the hell is wrong with these judges?

How gullible are they?

I can't help but think someone is going to get revenge on this monster.

[noiretextatique]

17. not gullible

probably feels sympathy for this creep...we can only guess why

[CRH]

24. Yeah and if they do, ...

then they will spend life in prison for taking justice into their own hands, after justice had already failed them.

[happyslug]

90. It is the text of the law that is the problem

See # 76 above

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=593697

And is beginning to look like the whole story is fake:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=593761

Reviewing this could this be a Law School Exam question? After studying the relevant statutes some professor came up with a Hypothetical situation for his students to discuss and somehow that question ended up on the net and someone took it is a real story? It has all the elements, the teens could be over 16 and thus if they agreed to the sex it is NOT a violation of any law in Iowa UNLESS it is sex with a counselor that is NOT part of a treatment plan? Narrow exception to a narrow exception. Typical question, may even have been on the Bar exam.

While it could be a law review question, the Defendant appears to be real:


Conviction
Date
County
Age at Offense
Victim Age
Victim Gender
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 Adult (18+) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 Adult (18+) Male
709,15,4,B Sex exploitation couns/ther/schl 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie Not Supplied Not Supplied Not Supplied
709,15,4,A Sex exploitation couns/ther/schl 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie Not Supplied Not Supplied Not Supplied
http://www.iowasexoffender.com/registrant/16902/

[cynzke]

13. No Doubt....

A bible-thumping judge thought it was plausible enough to reduce the sentence.

[tosh]

15. No mention of who this judge was, but this is interesting...

"Girouex, a married father of four, has had a fair share of backlash since he publicly made his disturbing practices known. One of his most ardent opponents is his wife Erin, who has spoken out against both him and the reduced sentence he received after the initial 17 years he was to serve in prison.

"I don't want [my children] anywhere near him," Erin Girouex said to KCII local news. She stated that she has plans for divorce, but that her husband's wanting to see their kids has complicated matters. Currently, he has a court-ordered, twice-per-month visitation schedule, where he must be supervised by his own mother."

[intaglio]

16. Last week he was sentenced and the judge suspended it

quote from Epoch times

to allow him to get sex offender treatment and probation, the station reported.

Today he was re-arrested on 60 further counts ...

Former Pastor Brent Girouex of Iowa was arrested on 60 counts of suspicion of sexual exploitation, it was reported.

Girouex admitted to having sexual relations with at least four children, but eight more have stepped forward to claim they were abused, reported

Same source

[MuseRider]

22. Good.

Hope it sticks this time and he does significant time as well as getting counseling. He is seriously messed up.

[sakabatou]

108. I hope he gets his ass in jail this time.

[Solly Mack]

20. WhattheFuck?

[idwiyo]

25. Even his wife was pissed off when he was given probation.

http://www.kcci.com/Wife-Condemns-Youth-Pastor-In-Sex-Crimes-Case/-/9357770/10378560/-/ssumk7z/-/index.html


Wife Condemns Youth Pastor In Sex Crimes Case
Brent Girouex Sentenced To Probation
UPDATED 10:36 AM CST Mar 09, 2012

COUNCIL BLUFFS, Iowa —A mother who has to tell her children that their father is a sexual predator expresses courage and condemnation, reported KETV-TV.
...

Girouex pleaded guilty to sexual abuse in the third degree. He also entered an Alford plea on two counts of sexual exploitation by a counselor or therapist, admitting prosecutors had enough evidence to find him guilty. One charge is a felony, and the other is a misdemeanor.

A judge issued a 17-year prison sentence Wednesday, but then suspended it to allow Girouex to get sex offender treatment and probation. Girouex's probation will last five years -- the maximum allowed by law. Girouex will also be under the supervision of the Iowa Department of Corrections for the rest of his life, as part of the state's special sentence for sex offenders,

Erin Girouex, the pastor's wife, said Thursday probation is not enough. She joined the victims to say they are frustrated. She also said victims of sexual misconduct should not be afraid to come forward, despite what happened in court.

[indepat]

26. How special the sentence and how roaring-ly special this special man of God is.

I would say "Jesus Christ" were it not blasphemous.

[Trillo]

27. Curious timing with the Dawkin's "mild pedophilia" posts

of the last few days. Seems like a coordinated effort.

[Ash_F]

28. Rape 12 people. Don't go to jail.

America.

[longship]

29. What is it with the anti-gay religionists?

I could spew some real venom here. But Rachel Maddow does it oh so much better than I could -- and the case she reports here wasn't rape. Nevertheless, the hypocrisy is the same.

A brilliant Maddow segment.

[wordpix]

52. they have self-loathing instilled from childhood about the "sin" of the gay

Just glad I'm in a Dem state without a majority of insane anti-gay religious wingnuts spewing their nuttiness.

[Rebellious Republican]

30. There must be a way to find out who this judge was!

This judge needs to be taken off the bench. How can we make this happen. Some one here must have the answers as to how we (DU) can make this happen.

Then he needs to get the George Zimmerman treatment!!!

RR

[GeorgeGist]

32. This weeks episode of ...

Law and Order: WTF?

[FiveGoodMen]

44. "Law and Order: WTF?"

That's great.

I'll probably have to check to make sure that's not one of the million-or-so spinoffs currently on TV.

[gopiscrap]

33. That is such bullshit

[hue]

34. Girouex's sentence was reduced from 17 years in prison to sex offender treatment and probation

[freshwest]

69. Minors? Rape? Mental Abuse? Should be locked away for good. Damn judges for letting rapists go!

[Baitball Blogger]

36. Our justice system is broken.

[TacoD]

38. The sentence reduction actually occurred in March 2012.

See reply #37.

[xfundy]

39. Of course!

See, this man is a CHRISTIAN™, which means he's one of the GOOD ones. And he's a PASTOR, so he's doubleplus good.

[SummerSnow]

41. I'm fucking speechless and angry. Wtf is wrong with people???????!!!!!!!

I recommend street justice. stone this asshole

[radicalliberal]

42. Pardon me while I go puke.

[Wolf Frankula]

43. I told Heinz and Rudi about this Ass

But they won't go to Iowa to deal with him. I hope 'sex offender treatment' is castration with a rusty knife.

Wolf

[Precisely]

45. That's insane

[Warren DeMontague]

46. He gets probation. But if he were a paraplegic taking "too many" pain pills,

Or a cancer granny busted with a pot brownie, he'd be in prison for 10 years at least.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

47. The difference between Girouex and Sandusky?

Religion.

[Enthusiast]

83. You nailed it.

Even in the face of all the evidence, the "religious" are given special consideration.

[happyslug]

99. Growing Evidence that the difference is that this is NOT a real report

No one seems to be able to confirm this report, not even people in Iowa. I suspect some sort of Hypothetical situation that someone took as real, but anything is possible.

But later found to have been a real report:


Conviction
Date
County
Age at Offense
Victim Age
Victim Gender
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 Adult (18+) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 Adult (18+) Male
709,15,4,B Sex exploitation couns/ther/schl 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie Not Supplied Not Supplied Not Supplied
709,15,4,A Sex exploitation couns/ther/schl 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie Not Supplied Not Supplied Not Supplied

http://www.iowasexoffender.com/registrant/16902/

[mpcamb]

48. Just checked out this story to see what state it occurred in..

IOWA???
Come on!
I'm so disappointed in Iowa!

[PeteSelman]

49. This is an absolutely insane ruling.

This guy rapes 12 people and gets no jail time at all? Ridiculous. Someone should consider removing everyone involved in this from their positions and throwing them in jail with him.

This is outrageous.

[2ndAmForComputers]

50. The R in IOKIYAR can stand for something other than Republican, it seems.

[LisaL]

51. Unbelievable.

Who is this judge?

[Th1onein]

53. O.M.G.

Unbelievable. This cannot be left to go unchallenged. Perhaps the young men that he raped ought to file civil suits against this creep?

You know, on second thought, I'd file a civil rights suit against the entity that decided to let this guy off the hook. Maybe they could make a 14th Amendment case?

[undiegrinder]

54. Anybody else feel like Googling the judge?

Based on just a few minutes of searching, his sentences seem surprisingly mild.


From 11/10/2011:

COUNCIL BLUFFS, Iowa —Five-month-old Lane Thomas died in her care, and Thursday, Teresa Chapin pleaded guilty to aggravated child endangerment.

Judge Greg Steensland deferred the case, which leaves Chapin on probation for the next year.

Steensland said he deferred sentencing for a year so everyone involved in the case could heal.

Prosecutors said Chapin -- a licensed day care provider -- should have known better when she put the baby down for a nap in an adult bed on his side surrounded by blankets on Aug. 17.

He never woke up.

But Chapin left court nearly a free woman.

Read more: http://www.ketv.com/Day-Care-Provider-Pleads-Guilty-To-Child-Endangerment/-/9675214/10132200/-/x8np5tz/-/index.html#ixzz2ejAXDDRa




Story Created: Sep 14, 2007 at 4:18 AM CDT

HAMBURG (AP) - A Fremont County judge has dismissed an effort to remove a southwest Iowa mayor who was accused of animal cruelty and stealing city funds.

The Iowa attorney general's office filed a petition in November to remove Hamburg Mayor Terry Holliman from office. It was filed after Holliman was charged with stealing and misappropriating about $50,000 from the city of Hamburg.

District Court Judge Greg Steensland dismissed the petition this week, marking the third and final legal battle Holliman has faced and won.

Animal abuse charges against Holliman were dismissed July 9th, and he was found not guilty of the felony theft charges in April.

The judge cited the acquittal as one of his reasons for dismissing the petition. He says Holliman could only be removed if he were proven guilty.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/9780762.html

[dballance]

96. Dang, If I get into trouble I want him as my judge. /nt

[Initech]

57. To quote Stephen Colbert: This just in, Jesus has quit!

[Sheldon Cooper]

58. Are you fucking kidding me?

A CONFESSED child rapist gets probation? What the actual fuck. Disgusting.

[erpowers]

59. Life In Prison

This guy should have been given life in prison. There is no reason this guy should not be in prison. Even if this guy believed what he said he still should have gotten more than sex offender treatment, probation, or 17 years in prison.

[CTyankee]

60. OK, so I told my hubby this tonight and he just looked at me funny...

I think he thinks we're a little crazy at DU, but he's a good liberal so he said "Why are you telling me this?" and I said "I thought you should know. It is on DU."

He gave me another funny look...I explained the pastor's rationale, but I got yet another funny look.

Sometimes things get a little beyond explaining...

[0rganism]

61. this story defies explanation

It is inherently anti-explanation. It has no handle upon which rationality can grasp.

[thesquanderer]

62. Ironic that he said it with his straight face. (n/t)

[niyad]

63. this is beyond words (at least, words that won't get me banned) I wish I believed in hell, because

that is where both of them belong.

[jwirr]

64. Where in Iowa?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

66. Council Bluffs.

AKA the worst place on Earth.

[jwirr]

67. Thanks. I was assuming it was somewhere in Steve Kings district. Just a little south of it. Seems

western Iowa has all the nutjobs.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

71. Close.

It used to be Steve Kings district. It sure seems like there are a lot of nut jobs here. It's more like Eastern Nebraska.

[undiegrinder]

65. Still struggling to make sense of this ...

From 3/7/12:

Victims Upset With Predator's Sentence

A former youth pastor, accused of sexual abuse of young men, is sentenced as his victims and their families watch.

Brent Girouex was given the maximum sentence, then it was suspended a move that upset many of his victims and their families.

Girouex entered the courtroom facing up to 17-years in prison but walked out with the very real possibility of never having to spend a day behind bars.

Judge Steensland suspended the prison time and opted for a lifetime of supervised probation.

Judge Greg Steensland says, "Can I put together a sentence that shows that not only do we care about your personal rehabilitation but we care about the message it sends to society and society needs to feel protected from you."

Several of his victims came forward to describe how Brent Girouex manipulated them into sexual relationships under the guise of counseling them.

The prosecutor worries about the message the sentence sends.

Dan McGinn says, "People will look at this as a slap on the hand, when you give a guy street probation and he avoids prison some other victim being picked on by a teacher of a counselor may say well I'm not going to say anything because nothing is going to happen anyway."

The defense pointed out that only one of Girouex's victims was under the age of consent and all of them returned for more counseling sessions with Girouex.

The defense and sentence, according to the victim's pastor, combined to re-victimize the young men.

Rev. Lonnie Parton says, "Their interpretation of this is that justice isn't being done."

Any violation of the conditions of his probation could result with Girouex serving that 17-year sentence.

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/Victims_Upset_with_Predators_Sentence_141833713.html

[Midnight Writer]

70. Can't wait to see O'reilly

Express his outrage about this every night on The Report

[Midnight Writer]

72. Oh Really's audience might find this to be too complicated

After all, the raped children were gay and the rapist was a good Christian.

Their little brains may explode.

[1Greensix]

73. Judge must be a pedophile

Any judge that would hand down a sentence like probation for this crime Has got to be a pedophile himself. No normal thinking person would even consider probation for this criminal. He needs to spend thirty years behind bars. And the judge should too.

[matt in france]

74. christians are strange

christians rape away gayness by forced gay sex after their god makes people gay in the first place? so god makes boys gay so that preists can have fun raping them so the boys will no longer be gay.....

what a fucked religion

christianity makes me sick as does its religious leaders

[jberryhill]

77. Can you remind me of the age of sexual consent in France?

France is a strange place. They harbor a US film director who raped a 14 year old girl because French people like to have sex with 14 year olds so much, they made it legal and treat Roman Polanski as a national hero.

Aren't generalizations fun?

What this guy did would not even be illegal in France in the first place.

[matt in france]

79. france is fucked for harbouring polanski

and 15 is the age of consent in France, what he did would have been illegal by French law, but he also drugged the girl, and drugging someone under age 18 is VERY illegal in France, hell sharing drugs with another adult is illegal here


15 in France, 16 in most states in the USA (used to be 13 or 14 in some states until recently)
in the EU it ranges

Spain 13

Austria, Liechenstein,Portugal, San Marino, Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Italy and Bulgaria its 14

Czech Republic, Romania, Slovakia, Sweden, Slovenia, Poland, France, Greece, Monaco, and Denmark 15 (but as a teacher i cant have sex with my students until they are 18, my wife was 23 when we started being lovers, she was one of my students at a university )


Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, UK 16
Cyprus, Ireland, 17
Malta 18

and the catholic priests over here rape little boys in the name of god as they do in the usa, its sickening, and its a big reason why so many french people are no longer catholic, the catholic church is an embarassment


and yes french people are weird, strange, i have had to put up with them the last ten years of my life, you know the worst thing about france is french people dont you

[JRLeft]

84. An adult fucking a 14, 15, 16, 17 and depending how old you are 18 year old is sick.

JMO.

[matt in france]

86. im 34

and if a woman isnt old enough for me to take to a bar in the usa, 21, then i am not interested, but the law does allow it 15 in france, 16 in most us states,

[happyslug]

94. I ended up reading Canon law, and the Vatican puts it at 15

People tend to forget the Common Law Rule was age 12, and that was the rule in most of the world till the 1800s. No one liked it and it started to go up at that time period, but even today there are countries with age 12 as the age of consent.

Also, till the late 1990s it was legal for 12 years to entered into a Common Law Marriage in Pennsylvania. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court made that ruling in the late 1990s for the State Legislature had NEVER addressed Common Law Marriage and thus the Court ruled the age one could enter was the age one could enter under the Common Law and that was age 12. Once married you could have sex with your married partner (the Case involved a teacher and his 12 year old student, he walked for the Court ruled it was legal for him to have sex with his wife for Common Law Marriages were legal in Pennsylvania at that time and the age one could enter into a Common Law Marriages was 12 and no parental consent was needed).

Side Note: A Colorado Judge made a comment some years ago that the Colorado rule on Common Law Marriage was the same as Pennsylvania's had been (Pennsylvania has since abolished common law marriages, but they are still valid if formed before 1/1/ 2005). Thus the ability to marry under a Common Law Marriage could still be age 12 in Colorado (He was trying to be nice, in reality he was saying a similar case could arise in Colorado and the Colorado Supreme Court will have to rule the same way for the Colorado Legislature had not addressed the problem).

Texas is another Common Law Marriage State, but I am unfamiliar with its rules, but that implies the age to consent to Marriage in the US may still be age 12 in some states.

[JRLeft]

97. I know New York 17, New Jersey 16. It's wrong IMO.

And I am 35, I agree with you. You must be old enough to drink. I wouldn't date a women younger than 25.

[matt in france]

80. la vache qui ri

nice logo, our french "laughing cow" cheese

on another note, why do you believe in a god who tells his messengers (preists or pastors) to rape little boys? the pastor was "doing god's work" and a christian judge agreed....

that is one fucked up god and one fucked up religion

[jberryhill]

81. Are you quite all right?

I don't believe in any such god any more than I believe that cows think cheese is funny.

Where did I say I believed in any god at all?

Just because most French people enjoy soliciting hotel maids for sex, there's no reason to assume they all do.

[matt in france]

87. most french enjoy soliciting anyone for sex

but its cool to see you read about DSK


sorry, on edit, most french MEN enjoy soliciting any woman for sex

[Douglas Carpenter]

78. frankly, I believe the pastor believed what he was saying

religious systems that require constant self-deception in order to face day to day life - the sky is the limit when it comes to delusion.

[Stuart G]

85. This story is from March 2012...and is almost unverifiable..could be a fake...

I have spent a half hour trying to find the truth. Here is a March 2012 link:

http://www.kcci.com/Wife-Condemns-Youth-Pastor-In-Sex-Crimes-Case/-/9357770/10378560/-/ssumk7z/-/index.html


but there is very little from that date around. It could be a fake. It seems to have been picked up a couple of days ago, as current news...by many outlets..but.. all stories seem to come from this March story.. Yes, there is a church web site, but at that location in Iowa, it is hard to tell there is a church. If the story is from 2012, there would be lots of other stories from newspapers all over Iowa. Nope, none. Interviews with wife..nope.. Judges name?...nope..I did see he was supposed to be under supervision of someone..for the rest of his life..but...not enough about this one..Sounds too crazy to be true. Especially since it happened in March 2012 and had little coverage then...
also.........there is very little from March about... this fellow.....Brent Girouex....who did this crime...yes, there is a lot about it now..if it was picked up by mistake as a hoax...but what about in March 2012???

[exboyfil]

88. Nothing on website for the Council Bluffs newspaper

Name does not appear on the sex offenders registry. I think you are right. It would have been a huge story in Iowa.

[Ash_F]

93. Is it this man?

http://www.iowasexoffender.com/registrant/16902/

[exboyfil]

106. Yes - Thanks

Somehow I did not pick him up in my search. Nice guy.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

107. Twice I put in the numbers to access the site, but they just gave me a third set...

saying I entered the wrong numbers. I hadn't entered the wrong numbers...
Strange.

[grantcart]

89. It appears that it violates LBN rules

I would encourage you to alert on it based on your research.

[Stuart G]

91. I have done so....strange way it got picked up recently and started all over..

at google, almost all the links are recent. last two days or so. But..there are those from 2012..

[happyslug]

92. Sounds like a Bar Exam Question

Last edited Fri Sep 13, 2013, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

A narrow exception to a narrow exception. In Iowa it is legal to have consensual sex with anyone over age 16, EXCEPT if you are a Counselor. As to the Counselor exception, if the act is part of the treatment is is also excepted. Given that being the law, what if sex is part of the treatment plan of the Counselor? Is it legal? It was consented to (no one is saying otherwise) and if the victims were over 16 it would be legal EXCEPT if the person having sex is a counselor. On the other hand if the Counselor is using actual sex as part of his plan of treatment, does that not make it meet the exception to the exception? Then throw in Freedom of Religion to confuse the issue some more, for a counselor can be a religious leader.

A good law school question, gives the student a lot to work with. In real life rarely the case but could be a law school exam question, even a BAR exam question that somehow entered the net and someone took it as real. Worse if a bunch of law students started it as a debating point and added facts as other entered whatever forum it was in that made it more and more like a real shocking case.

But after I wrote the above, this is a REAL PERSON and a REAL CASE:

http://www.iowasexoffender.com/registrant/16902/

[Ash_F]

95. Check out this link

http://www.iowasexoffender.com/registrant/16902/

5 rape convictions in 2012 and, as of 05/08/2013, his place of residence is an apartment, not a prison.

[happyslug]

100. His actual record

Conviction
Date
County
Age at Offense
Victim Age
Victim Gender
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 14 - 17 (Age) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 Adult (18+) Male
709,4,2,C4 Sexual abuse 3rd degree 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie 27 Adult (18+) Male
709,15,4,B Sex exploitation couns/ther/schl 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie Not Supplied Not Supplied Not Supplied
709,15,4,A Sex exploitation couns/ther/schl 03/07/2012 Pottawattamie Not Supplied Not Supplied Not Supplied



http://www.iowasexoffender.com/registrant/16902/

[marshall]

98. Maybe it's not "rape-rape"

That's the current meme in describing what in the mind of the speaker is a "less serious" form of rape.

For many, whether it is statutory rape, sex between a supervisor and an underling, or forcible rape, it's all rape.

[KansDem]

101. Oh, those poor, poor persecuted Christians!

...believed that he could rape away the gay by "praying while he had sexual contact" with the boys, all in an effort to keep them "sexually pure" for God.

According to reports, he told police that "when they would ejaculate, they would be getting rid of the evil thoughts in their mind."

No doubt a product of anti-science, faith-based education.

[Pab Sungenis]

102. Waiting for the usual suspects

to defend him by saying that only women can be considered victims of rape.

[bobGandolf]

110. You have got to be shitting me!

"...rape away the gay...." WTF!!!

[FiveGoodMen]

111. Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities -- Voltaire